Comet ISON to be visible late 2013

[dabean]

Hopefully she can see mars, not sure what time or whether she can even see it at night. Accuweather says it's a clear sunny day so hopefully it stays clear tonight and hopefully if she can see mars it is clear on sunday-wednesday.

ISON and Mars are in the constellation of Cancer at the moment and are visible just before sunrise in the North-East. ISON rises at 4:24am according to the GoSkyWatch app I have on my phone.

Things close to the horizon are hard to see though because of the extra atmosphere we have to look through. It's magnitude 11 which is pretty faint to begin with, and the background light from sunrise will drown it out quite quickly.

I doubt she'll have time to get a decent set of exposures in the time available.

 

[killadoob]

Well according to nasa the dirty snowball should only really begin to brighten once it hits the habitable zone or frost line. That my understanding, scary a 4inch telescope can get such an amazing image compared to hubble it looks almost identical.

Yea i figured as much da bean. Early morning sunrise, appreciate the info though. Why are we watching this comet via amateurs with 4" scopes when nasa has so much more power. You would think the comet of the century would be broadcast by nasa not 4" amateurs

Because this is Comet ISON’s first visit to the inner solar system, no one can say for sure what will happen. Comets are unpredictable, capable of fizzling at the last minute even after months of promising activity.

Why call it comet of the century when it's so small and comets are unpredictable i wonder?

 

[jacodebeer]

Article from die Beeld
http://www.beeld.com/nuus/2013-09-25-komeet-ison-kan-string-prels-bring
According to space.com we will be seeing ISON on early morning of 28th November

Mense in die Suidelike Halfrond sal die komeet net voor sonop op 28 November die mooiste kan sien. Indien hy sy tog oorleef, sal hy die hemelruim mooi verlig, het kenners op Space.com gesê.

 

[porchrat]

I cut out your not so subtle references to the conspiracy theories and the distrust of NASA. Wouldn't want you to get upset about having your irrationality pointed out again.

Why call it comet of the century when it's so small and comets are unpredictable i wonder?

because of its initial predicted luminosity I guess. At first they thought it was going to be the brightest object in the sky, eclipsed only by the sun. Heck they still reckon it is going to be as bright as Venus.

I'm not aware of a more impressive comet in the last century. Could be wrong. Considering your dismissal of the term I take it you know of a more impressive one?

 

[Seriously]

:erm: Mabe killa was right after all

New island off Pakistan’s southern coast

http://earthsky.org/todays-image/new-island-off-pakistans-southern-coast

A powerful earthquake can cause a new island to rise from the sea floor. This one appeared on Tuesday, September 24, following the 7.7-magnitude Pakistan earthquake.

A new island, created in what one scientist called a “mud volcano,” has risen from the sea off the coast of Pakistan, following the September 24, 2013 earthquake there. Image via DieWelt.

 

[killadoob]

I cut out your not so subtle references to the conspiracy theories and the distrust of NASA. Wouldn't want you to get upset about having your irrationality pointed out again.



because of its initial predicted luminosity I guess. At first they thought it was going to be the brightest object in the sky, eclipsed only by the sun. Heck they still reckon it is going to be as bright as Venus.

I'm not aware of a more impressive comet in the last century. Could be wrong. Considering your dismissal of the term I take it you know of a more impressive one?

I realize you are not. There from the irrational conspiracy theorist who has to google for you, look at the link below. As i mentioned we will see what happens when it crosses the frost line, google frost line or habitable zone if you are unaware. Not going to spoon feed you on that point.

http://www.space.com/17918-9-most-brilliant-great-comets.html

 

[porchrat]

I realize you are not. There from the irrational conspiracy theorist who has to google for you, look at link below. As i mentioned we will see what happens when it crosses the frost line, google frost line or habitable zone if you are unaware. Not going to spoon feed you on that point.

http://www.space.com/17918-9-most-brilliant-great-comets.html

Interesting read thanks. Would have loved to have seen that comet from 1976. Not quite sure who coined the 'comet of the century' term but it certainly doesn't look like it is going to be the brightest comet of the last 100 years. Perhaps those who said it meant it to refer to the 21st century, which is likely to be true... so far anyway.

 

[killadoob]

Porch i am so irrational perhaps look this up for me, what is bigger mcnaught or ison? Can you tell us why crossing the frost line is important? I am using nasa's dirty snowball theory(fact) because it isn't something i have discounted.

Tell me please porch the different sizes of mcnaught 2007 and ison. What is the nucleus of ison compared to mcnaught? Tail length? I am overly irrational so you can tell us this stuff, k?

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2013/18jan_cometison/

I would love to learn about the different sizes of comets this century and what size they were porch, can you explain all that to me please. You seem to know much more than some irrational poster. Once you have looked up mcnaught perhaps explain why ison is expected to be better? Can't wait to learn stuff from rational people like you porch. What is considered the biggest comet of the century porch and how did they measure it? Can't wait for rational people to teach me some stuff porch, waiting for your answers.

 

[porchrat]

Porch i am so irrational perhaps look this up for me, what is bigger mcnaught or ison? Can you tell us why crossing the frost line is important? I am using nasa's dirty snowball theory(fact) because it isn't something i have discounted.

Tell me please porch the different sizes of mcnaught 2007 and ison. What is the nucleus of ison compared to mcnaught? Tail length? I am overly irrational so you can tell us this stuff, k?

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2013/18jan_cometison/

I would love to learn about the different sizes of comets this century and what size they were porch, can you explain all that to me please. You seem to know much more than some irrational poster. Once you have looked up mcnaught perhaps explain why ison is expected to be better? Can't wait to learn stuff from rational people like you porch. What is considered the biggest comet of the century porch and how did they measure it? Can't wait for rational people to teach me some stuff porch, waiting for your answers.

Read your own articles. Comet McNaught had a peak luminosity of about -5.5, nowhere near the estimated luminosity for ISON (which I think was around -16 or something... can't remember the actual number, brighter than the full moon, nothing but the sun was going to be brighter). Whether it was or wasn't bigger is largely irrelevant to the layman. Hence the "comet of the century" descriptor.

Frankly I had thought I made it clear what measurement I was referring to when I said: "Not quite sure who coined the 'comet of the century' term but it certainly doesn't look like it is going to be the brightest comet of the last 100 years. Perhaps those who said it meant it to refer to the 21st century, which is likely to be true... so far anyway. "

 

[killadoob]

Well mcnaught is the brightest comet since 1935. So you say mcnaught was not very bright? Can you explain why it is expected that ison will be -16 and why mcnnaught was only -5.5

So tell me was mcnaught a bigger comet? was it's tail longer? What was the size of the nuclues compared to ison and how big was the coma compared to ison? Thanks for the information porch, can't wait to get comparisons with the brightest comet since 1935 and comet ison. I would try but irrational people are mocked so maybe a rational person like yourself can give us the information we need.

It really interests me to know the coma, nuclues and tail size of ison vs mcnaught, can't wait for your answers. i must learn from rational people who do not know about mcnaught but they are rational so the info is legit.

Awaiting your answers.

O this frost line/habitable zone it is suppose to be crossing or entering(sorry us irrational people don't know) soon(ison), what will happen and what does that mean?

Let's nominate porch to explain all this stuff to us perhaps, he seems to know so much. So porch the floor is yours bud.

 

[porchrat]

Well mcnaught is the brightest comet since 1935. So you say mcnaught was not very bright?

It was bright sure. However not as bright relative to the initial, or even the current (around -6 if memory serves) figures for ISON.

Can you explain why it is expected that ison will be -16 and why mcnnaught was only -5.5

No longer predicted to be a -16 as far as I'm aware. Its behaviour didn't remain constant so they've lowered the number. All mentioned in this thread already. As to why it is predicted to be brighter I imagine it is its position as a sungrazing comet. The gasses and such contained within the comet will expand and ignite causing a nice bright object in the sky for us to see. It won't reach its peak luminosity until it starts moving past the sun.

So tell me was mcnaught a bigger comet? was it's tail longer? What was the size of the nuclues compared to ison and how big was the coma compared to ison? Thanks for the information porch, can't wait to get comparisons with the brightest comet since 1935 and comet ison. I would try but irrational people are mocked so maybe a rational person like yourself can give us the information we need.

Not sure what its size was. It did break up quite considerably though so it had a nice long tail. Doesn't matter though as it still wasn't as bright as even the new prediction put ISON at, let alone the predictions that led to the "Comet of the Century" nickname the press has latched onto.

It really interests me to know the coma, nuclues and tail size of ison vs mcnaught, can't wait for your answers. i must learn from rational people who do not know about mcnaught because they are rational and information will seem legit.

Rationality and access to information are not equatable killa. :wtf:

Your irrationality isn't stemming from the information you have, it comes from the conclusions you draw once you've read/watched/listened to that information. Your apparent distrust and thoughts of NASA hiding things thanks to it not having ISON pictures (which it does) is, for example, irrational. That has no bearing on whether or not you have access to the pictures.

Your linking of strange weather to a comet with seemingly little backing it also strikes me as rather irrational. Or at the very least illogical. It doesn't matter how many weather patterns change as the comet approaches. You still think changing weather patterns will validate your stance. This is not logical.

So again let me point out that, as far as I am aware, the size of a comet does not have to be directly proportional to its luminosity. There are other factors at play. Distance from the sun, composition etc.

O this front line it is suppose to be crossing soon(ison), what will happen and what does that mean?

The term frost line, the way astronomers and astrophysicists use it, is similar to the way we use it here on Earth. It just means the distance from our star beyond which hydrogen based stuff like water can become solid. I think it is something like 5 AU (1 AU being the average distance of the Earth from the sun). So once the comet moves within this distance its state will begin to change.

 

[killadoob]

So basically the frost line is the habitable zone where the sun starts affecting comets and planets?

Tell me do comets normally have a tail full of iron oxide and how does that iron oxide interact with the sun? Will it burn up when it goes around leaving the comet with no tail?

So you don't know isons sizing or mcnaughts? I know you won't know mcnaughts considering you never knew it existed but ison you must surely be able to tell us. You seem so interested in this topic as well, i can tell you have a passion for comets so i can't wait to hear about their tails.

 

[porchrat]

So basically the frost line is the habitable zone where the sun starts affecting comets and planets?

No just because common hydrogen based stuff starts to change states doesn't mean it is habitable. To be considered part of a habitable zone a planet with enough atmospheric pressure needs to be able to have liquid water on its surface. Just because some water begins to exist out of crystal form doesn't mean there is going to be a meaningful amount of liquid water.

The habitable zone is a silly idea anyway as liquid water can exist outside of a so-called habitable zone as long as it gets sufficient heat from some other source.

Tell me do comets normally have a tail full of iron oxide and how does that iron oxide interact with the sun? Will it burn up when it goes around leaving the comet with no tail?

Some comets don't have tails at all.

I imagine the make up of the tail depends upon the comet. I imagine the make up could also change as different elements within the comet reach temperatures high enough to allow them to change states, or allows the surrounding materials to change state leading to it being dislodged. You could eventually have sodium in there or iron too sure if the comet contains those elements.

As to stuff combusting, close enough to the sun anything will combust. Close enough to the sun and you won't have a comet at all, but you won't get ISON having no tail whatsoever. The tail doesn't follow the comet around, it is a trail of stuff the comet leaves behind. The sun can't burn up stuff the comet has left behind far away. Also the comet likely won't stop leaving stuff behind after it has survived the trip past the sun so even if a portion of the tail is combusted by the sun, the vast majority of the tail will remain to be dispersed by solar winds or, if far enough out, to just disperse over time.

So you don't know isons sizing or mcnaughts? I know you won't know mcnaughts considering you never knew it existed but ison you must surely be able to tell us. You seem so interested in this topic as well, i can tell you have a passion for comets so i can't wait to hear about their tails.

ISON has a diameter of 5km or so with a predicted luminosity of, if memory serves, about -6. So greater than the -5.5 of McNaught. Again, as far as my knowledge goes, the size of a comet is only one factor in its luminosity.

I don't have a passion for comets. A passing interest at best.

 

[killadoob]

What do you know about the space fence? Can you explain why they are shutting it down to save 14 million a year? That is chump change for the US air force. I understand they are going to upgrade it in 2018 but why shut it down before the new system?

Amazing system as well.

 

[porchrat]

What do you know about the space fence? Can you explain why they are shutting it down to save 14 million a year? That is chump change for the US air force. I understand they are going to upgrade it in 2018 but why shut it down before the new system?

Amazing system as well.

I know it was a system run by the US to detect objects orbiting over the US in order to try to prevent collisions. They apparently just recalibrated other standing systems to run as a stop gap until 2018. Apparently working quite well for now.

I imagine they shut it down because of rising concern over spending in the government coupled with the fact that the US government no longer bothers to actually launch missions into space from the US any longer leading to people wondering why their tax money is going towards maintaining an outdated system the job of which can apparently be done by other existing infrastructure.

Besides, short of making sure their own satellites don't collide with debri and such I don't see why tax money should be paying for safety systems that mainly aid fat cat private companies.

 

[killadoob]

Ok so the air force gets 10 billion, they cut a program that does some amazing things and only costs 14 MILLION.
Then nasa loses contact with deep space.

You realize that is a very important system, not only for private greedy folk but for the US defense. Early warning should they pick up something headed to america and all it costs is 14 million out of the 10 BILLION dollar budget. It can detect objects 10cm and bigger. Unreal. Not sure i buy cutting a 14 million dollar program when you have 10 billion to spend. You don't shut down such an amazing system that costs next to nothing to run. Why? Of all the things they could cut a 14 million dollar program that is simply amazing in my opinion gets cut.

So no more deep impact , no more object tracking. Barely any news on ison. Thinking rationally i guess it sounds about right. Well i will accept shutting down the program and losing their best equipped tool to spot comets as a coincidence.

Odd nasa announced they planned to spend 44 billion dollars on launches in the next 4 years. Also the space fence is not shut down as yet, it is due to be shut down by oct 1st according to what i just read. Hmmm seems like 1st of sept they shut if off, so many conflicting reports but the system is one of a kind and they shut it down to save 14 bar? Ok the system is to be totally shut down by the 1st of oct. Same day ison flies over mars interestingly.

Hopefully we get some decent footage on the 1st of october, i would expect nasa should have multiple craft to get good close up images of it. They said some pics would come yesterday, has anyone seem those pics or was that a mission for deep impact?

 

[porchrat]

Ok so the air force get 10 billion, they cut a program that does some amazing things and only costs 14 MILLION.
Then nasa loses contact with deep space.

Uh oh... I sense another unfounded link coming along.

You realize that is a very important system, not only for private greedy folk but for the US defense. Early warning should they pick up something headed to america and all it costs is 14 million out of the 10 BILLION dollar budget. It can detect objects 10cm and bigger. Unreal. Not sure i buy cutting a 14 million dollar program when you have 10 billion to spend. You don't shut down such an amazing system that costs next to nothing to run. Why? Of all the things they could cut a 14 million dollar program that is simply amazing in my opinion get cut.

It can detect objects as small as 10cm... at what height? I've seen some unsupported claims of that but I want a solid reference.

killadoob perhaps you missed this but apparently other standing infrastructure is able to perform adequately to take the place of space fence. So the government is cutting a program they apparently don't think they need. You should be happy that a government is finding ways to save money while maintaining functionality. This is like the government finding a way to launch satellites at a third of the price of previous launch vehicles and you arguing "but I liked the old rockets!!! ". It makes no sense. If there is other infrastructure that can fill that same set of requirements adequately and it means saving $14 million then yes please do it. I wish our government had the same attitude.

So no more deep impact , no more object tracking. Barely any news on ison. Thinking rationally i guess it sounds about right. Well i will accept shutting down the program and losing their best equipped tool to spot comets as a coincidence.

As far as I'm aware the space fence kept track of orbital debri and satellites. Its role wasn't exploration of deep space. I don't see how the two are linked (please don't feed me more conspiracy theories ).

Odd nasa announced they planned to spend 44 billion dollars on launches in the next 4 years. Also the space fence is not shut down as yet, it is due to be shut down by oct 1st according to what i just read.

I had read it was closed in September. Meh, journalists these days just rush to publish never bothering to fact check.

 

[killadoob]

Dude i am not connecting dots or trying to get a conspiracy going, i know what the space fence is. My question was why they decide to cut the program, 1961 - 2013 RIP space fence and if there was a replacement it would be fine but i am shocked such a stunning system is taken down when it only cost 14 bar a year to run.

I understand budget cuts and so on but if obama had got his way how many tomahawks would have flown into syria? 8 or 10 depending on the type is the budget of the space fence. They shot 250 into libya, that is around 150-300 bar depending on the rocket. They have their naval fleet, and many other other ships on alert how much is that costing i wonder? 14 bar a day more than likely.

You don't have much of an interest so the loss of deep impact and shutting down the space fence doesn't mean much to you. To me deep impact was nothing short of outstanding along with the space fence. Deep impact sadly conspiracy or not is lost. Dead . That saddens me. Whether it is a cover up so we can't see ison or not makes no difference to me. If ison is just another mcnaught and becomes the comet of century as predicted the loss of deep impact will be a sad one. I never said the space fence did anything but ensure satellites did not get destroyed by 10cm objects. One of a kind system.

 

[killadoob]

Stop trying to say i am going all conspiracy. It does strike me as odd deep impact is lost and they shut the space fence down but they were ready to shower syria with tomahawks. Saddens me that such an amazing system is removed when it cost such a tiny bit of money compared to what the US spends on defense.

You were not aware of the space fence and you didn't even know when it was shut down or might be, yet i am coming at you with conspiracies, i am irrational perhaps but i know what the space fence did and i didn't say it tracked comets.

All i did was point out some sad space facts, deep impact dead, space fence shut down or in the process of being shut down. Two very things indeed, whether they are related and there is some conspiracy, who knows. Apparently ison is carrying ufo's who are charging their ships using the sun, now you want to go with that conspiracy porch . I have yet to mention a conspiracy other than nasa don't seem to paying much attention to ison, due to deep impact being lost but they can't miss when it flies by mars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Space_Surveillance_System

Look no point debating when the system is shut down, i will accept the 1st of sept.

Excuse the double posting but i have been told my posts can be walls of text so i would rather post twice and make it less of an issue. If people after a decade i care about my post count they need to follow porches advice .

 

[porchrat]

Dude i am not connecting dots or trying to get a conspiracy going, i know what the space fence is. My question was why they decide to cut the program, 1961 - 2013 RIP space fence and if there was a replacement it would be fine but i am shocked such a stunning system is taken down when it only cost 14 bar a year to run.

Like I said apparently they replaced it with existing infrastructure. There is a replacement. You make it sound like they now have no way to track debri. They do.

I understand budget cuts and so on but if obama had got his way how many tomahawks would have flown into syria? 8 or 10 depending on the type is the budget of the space fence. They shot 250 into libya, that is around 150-300 bar depending on the rocket. They have their naval fleet, and many other other ships on alert how much is that costing i wonder? 14 bar a day more than likely.

Sure, governments burn lots of money. Personally when I see instances of government trying not to burn money I get happy. I'm surprised you don't.

You don't have much of an interest so the loss of deep impact and shutting down the space fence doesn't mean much to you. To me deep impact was nothing short of outstanding along with the space fence. Deep impact sadly conspiracy or not is lost. Dead . That saddens me. Whether it is a cover up so we can't see ison or not makes no difference to me. If ison is just another mcnaught and becomes the comet of century as predicted the loss of deep impact will be a sad one. I never said the space fence did anything but ensure satellites did not get destroyed by 10cm objects. One of a kind system.

Sure space fence was an impressive piece of tech but if the world can do without it there is no point in continuing to maintain it. The last thing a government so in debt needs to do is get nostalgic.

Deep Impact I agree is a terrible loss. We don't have something to replace that and all the potential information it would have generated is now lost to us.

BTW I'm still waiting for the reference on that 10cm claim.

Also the idea that it is a coverup so we can't see ISON makes no sense.

Stop trying to say i am going all conspiracy. It does strike me as odd deep impact is lost and they shut the space fence down but they were ready to shower syria with tomahawks. Saddens me that such an amazing system is removed when it cost such a tiny bit of money compared to what the US spends on defense.

If it is redundant then it is redundant no matter how much it costs to maintain. You seem to be for governments never shutting anything down. I don't understand that stance. If they can have another set of infrastructure perform that function adequately for less money then shut the more expensive thing down. It is logical to do so.

I don't know why you think losing Deep Impact is odd. We lose contact with space probes and the like all the time.

You were not aware of the space fence and you didn't even know when it was shut down or might be, yet i am coming at you with conspiracies, i am irrational perhaps but i know what the space fence did and i didn't say it tracked comets.

Then I don't understand why it was at all relevant to this thread.

All i did was point out some sad space facts, deep impact dead, space fence shut down or in the process of being shut down. Two very things indeed, whether they are related and there is some conspiracy, who knows. Apparently ison is carrying ufo's who are charging their ships using the sun, now you want to go with that conspiracy porch . I have yet to mention a conspiracy other than nasa don't seem to paying much attention to ison, due to deep impact being lost but they can't miss when it flies by mars.

Well you also mentioned that NASA isn't releasing images of ISON when they actually are... then you changed your story to how they aren't releasing nice images of ISON. The conspiracy you've mentioned makes no sense and the conclusion you have drawn still doesn't follow from the 'evidence' that you have.

Look no point debating when the system is shut down, i will accept the 1st of sept.

Probably just sloppy journalism. Doesn't really matter. Shut down is shut down whether it happens at the beginning or end of the month.

Excuse the double posting but i have been told my posts can be walls of text so i would rather post twice and make it less of an issue. If people after a decade i care about my post count they need to follow porches advice .

Mine can also be walls of text so I'm definitely guilty of that too.