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Question of the Day: Have you ever been to an airshow?
Cope vs DA
- Thread starter BCO
- Start date
. Well there are talks of a COPE / DA Alliance... Then it won't matter as much... I think I will rather stick to the one thats policy is more to my liking.
Yes well parties at odds makes for a "more" healthy/balanced democracy most of the time.
stoke
Honorary Master
If COPE make it through the election process without re-joining with the ANC, then I am pretty damn sure that they will not survive the floor crossing fiasco.
Don't waste your votes on that play play political group, it only exists to steal votes from the DA.
Don't waste your votes on that play play political group, it only exists to steal votes from the DA.
marine1
Honorary Master
I agree Stoke, voting for them is a vote stolen from the DA.
Also hoping for it
Then one the DA and COPE might actually have some power and not just a couple of veto cards
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
The problem with that is... that if COPE manages to stand up to the ANC on a certain point, you may not agree with COPE's alternative policy. They may propose something that you completely disagree with.
Better to vote for the people you trust.
I believe that floor crossing has now been consigned to the annals of history. It has been done away with - and not a moment too soon. Not sure if it has actually been legislated yet or if it is still technically on the books, but in any event its no longer a disease we have to contend with.
I thought they had done or were doing away with that...
.. and the ANC. Theyre going to take the EC.. and I would rather the EC be controlled by COPE than the ANC.. simply to take another province away from the ANC.
Your votes might mean different things in different provinces... so blanket choices may need to be thought about more carefully.
The DA dont stand a snowballs chance in hell of even being slightly effective on the provincial level in the EC.. so it would really be a vote wasted from me.
The fact that you can vote for different parties at National/Provincial/Municipal levels is one of the things I love about our electoral system. One can make choices according to what you think a parties capabilities are in a certain region.
And the DA can only really win the Western Cape. Otherwise, the party to look out for is COPE, they may be in the running becuase of discontent, but that is a good enough reason as any to vote for a party.
I agree with w1z4rd, they will take EC. And I think they will replace the DA as official opposition nationwide.
stoke
Honorary Master
The scrapping of the floor crossing thing is news to me, thank you, I shall do the research.
@Wiz, please follow the logic :
- who is the ANC's only real political enemy in this country?
DA.
- how do you prevent the DA from gaining even more popularity?
Create another political party with the same policies as the DA.
This is political warfare, the victor will walk away with a country capable of producing 500 billion rand a year to spend as one wishes. Any trick is acceptable and expected.
Now, I know you have merit in saying that COPE will take EC, but you are also supporting a political group that does not even exist yet where another political group does exist with a PROVEN track record. I'll vote for the proven track record every time one is available.
However, elections are still a way off, and perhaps COPE will have enough time to prove themselves to sway my opinion.
A public debate perhaps?
@Wiz, please follow the logic :
- who is the ANC's only real political enemy in this country?
DA.
- how do you prevent the DA from gaining even more popularity?
Create another political party with the same policies as the DA.
This is political warfare, the victor will walk away with a country capable of producing 500 billion rand a year to spend as one wishes. Any trick is acceptable and expected.
Now, I know you have merit in saying that COPE will take EC, but you are also supporting a political group that does not even exist yet where another political group does exist with a PROVEN track record. I'll vote for the proven track record every time one is available.
However, elections are still a way off, and perhaps COPE will have enough time to prove themselves to sway my opinion.
A public debate perhaps?
March 25 according to http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=nw20081118112912116C265888
hoegh
Expert Member
as said, I will be voting for COPE so as to strengthen our country, people say, these are the same guys that were in charge for the last 14 years, yeah but these are the guys that know what is going on behind the ANC and these are the guys with a proven track record at getting things done within the ANC.
more competition for votes is good, the more people we have competing for political positions the better, these guys will realise that if they don't deliver they will be replaced.
more competition for votes is good, the more people we have competing for political positions the better, these guys will realise that if they don't deliver they will be replaced.
Arthur
Honorary Master
Perhaps that's true if everyone votes purely on policy. But many, perhaps even most, don't.
IMHO racial and tribal politics play a far greater role than the chattering (and scribbling) classes like to admit. I can't possibly know of course, but my sense is there are millions of black people who would never vote for the DA simply because they see it as a 'white' party for the 'historically advantaged' and their uncle toms. Zuma knows this only too well, hence he plays the racial (but coded) card by saying Shikota is marrying the DA. Expect this to be endlessly repeated by the ANC, precisely because it plays into racial stereotyping without actually using race words.
But millions of blacks could vote for COPE, because (a) it's black, and (b) they're tired of the ANC, and perhaps even (c) they're afraid of a resurgent Zulu hegemony.
It's therefore imperative that COPE keep its distance from the DA and ensure its 'peoples' (read 'black') identity - and I'm sure their leadership sees it that way too.
My advice: Don't vote strategically. Vote for the party you support, and let coalitions take care of the rest. Another problem with strategic votes is they distort the body politic and skew analysis and hence understanding.
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Arthur
Honorary Master
Yes, I know what you mean.
But there's a scary side to that. It all depends on what they're expected to deliver. If it's more free housing, education, healthcare and grants and handouts, and greater redistribution rather than wealth creation, then we're on the road to bankruptcy for sure. Case studies: Post-colonial Africa. Current example: Mugabeconomics.
So what precisely is to be 'delivered'? This is the fundamental political debate in SA. If the majority of people have the notion that money is ultimately produced and managed by governments, then the game's up and we're sunk. Democracy works only as well as the people do. That's our, er, challenge.
The ANC ruled during the last 14 years as a collective, it's unfair to put all of the blame on COPE members. Most of the people who ruled for the last 14 years (which are some of our worst MPs like Phumzile, Manto, Ivy, Charles, Ngconde etc.) are still in the ANC and the people that are coming into power are even worse. The current policy in the ANC is if you don't like Zuma then leave. COPE members are not innocent but they are sticking to what they believe rather than stay on the gravy train and worship Zuma like the rest. They want to uphold what the ANC stood for instead of supporting the rising dictatorship and SACP policies that currently control the party. I supported the ANC but after seeing the direction the party is taking after Polokwane I have decided that we need new leadership. The DA are not a bad party but unfortunately the are not a very strong opposition and their apparent re-branding is just a copy of Barack Obama's (which doesn't work here unfortunately).
COPE are a much bigger threat to the ANC and will help strengthen our democracy which is why I will vote for them
.You've got that wrong. Yes, it's similar, but not (we're told) on purpose.
However, the youthof our country have seen what an effect they can have by watching the Obama campaign, and have registered in surprising numbers for the upcoming election.Watch this space.
brixton tower
Expert Member
www.da.org.za - check out their policies etc. there.
COPE doesn't have a website yet, as they only officially launch 16 December. Look out for something then.
The DA relaunched this last weekend. Helen Zille was on a soap box - where were you?
Please, if Helen's gone back to the future with the DA positions then what's the use of spending all that money on a relaunch.
Correct me if I'm wrong but nothing earth-shattering came off the relaunch, it feels like the DA is still the same-ol-same-ol.
I disagree with you. I believe COPE is much more of a threat to the ANC. Things are different in different provinces. If I was in the Western Cape I would vote DA on the provincial level.
In the Eastern Cape (previously the ANC`s top stronghold).. the mood is very different. Every person I speak to (thats not normally a vintage DA voter.. and were previous ANC).. are ganna be voting for COPE. This is rural and city based voters.
To be honest about the reasoning I believe its because Zuma is not isiXhosa. Tribalism still means a lot in Durban and the EC.
In Gauteng the people there are pretty multicultural. Much less so here in the EC where almost every rural person is isiXhosa.
So I disagree that the DA is a threat. The DA is still seen by a lot of black people are the new NP party.. or basically a white party. Thats being the single biggest problem for the DA in getting new voters.
I dont think breaking your organization in two .. and offering more choices to your already convinced voter base makes much sense. Say the DA did OMG well.... they still wouldnt be able to pull more than a couple more percent of the votes, and they still wouldnt be able to hit into the ANC`s majority.
Breaking your party in half to effect the DA vote doesnt make sense to me.. if anything. its a one way road to political suicide.
I agree
Im supporting COPE not because I support their track record, but I find the importance of a two party political system in South Africa to be better for our democracy than a vote spent on the DA.
I do think COPE are a bunch of scumbags.. like most politicians... but they do offer the one thing the DA is not able to offer. An ANC without its majority.
If the DA were as strong here as they are in Gauteng or the WC they would have my provincial vote... but theyre not.. so at the end of the day I have to use my votes to forward what I think will be best for our country as a whole.