Corporal Punishment and your views

scryed1984

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I’d like to begin with a bit of history.
My girlfriend (I refer to her as my wife since our parents are always saying we’ve been through more in 3 years than most people in 20 years) She has two children living with us.
She had fled from her ex-husband a year before I met her. He is an alcoholic, dug user with a couple of hundred thousand rand in drug debt and child molester. He’s assaulted them multiple times including throwing a bed at a 1 year old toddler.

She was living in a small flat where I was afraid to park my car outside, with virtually no furniture. She was living off a salary that wouldn’t even cover my fuel usages.
That being said she is the most loving person I’ve met in my life. She’s loyal, extremely caring and the most honest person I’ve met in my life.

When I met her, her kids were taken away from her against all of their wills by welfare who said she was an unfit mother.

I’ve had many sleepless nights and stress that I’ve never known existed. But after months of therapy, legal battles and everything we managed to get the kids back. I got us a nice place on a plot with as much running space as any kid can dream off, with ‘n pool braai areas and everything.

The children soon had things that they’ve never had. Jumping castles for parties and someone who loved them.
Now I’ve been raised with a stern hand when I was young. I got regular beatings as a kid and some that was definitely abuse like getting my head thrown to the ground so I know the difference between abuse and discipline. Physical discipline is not always my first choice and I’ve sat with child psychologist about different ways on discipline.
The taking away of things you like, the let me talk to you like a grownup way, the rewards system way. All of them having starting off good but quickly failing (only with the older child who’s 9). Sometimes a good spanking is all that helps.

I had the opportunity to finally meet the last of my wife’s family over December. Every single member of the family, young and old had nothing but good things to say about the improvement they could see in my wife and her kids. The looked healthy, they had a lot more respect and they listened and looked up to me tremendously (the last one I still don’t quite understand or see?)

Now I could say a lot more, but this since I’ve never bothered writhing anything meaningful or this long I’d like to get to the point.

Last week the 9 year old was in one of her moods again and was very disrespectful towards her mother. She also hit her brother with a cricket bat out of spite chipping one of her teeth, and stole R200 from my wallet. So I decided it was getting out of hand and a spanking was in order. Now I’ve learned from my grandfather that 1. You don’t hit out of anger and 2. Make sure before or after that the child knows why they got a hiding and that you still love them.
So I waited till the evening and told her to go to her room when it was time. I eventually gave her, her 3 hidings and that was that.

Now this is where it gets fun…..

That Monday she decided to use her special gift (and that’s to cry like a movie star at will) and went and showed as many teachers as she could, including the psychologist that she got a hiding telling them that: ( she has no idea why she got an hiding. There’s no food or cool drinks in the house and she never gets lunch and so on)

They got welfare involved and we are being called out of work 2 – 3 times a week. If this goes on my wife will lose her job as they just see this as an inconvenience to them. Welfare decided to open up a case of assault against us/me I don’t even know anymore. ( she has a personal thing against us because she was the same person who was involved with my wife 3 years ago and she almost lost her job because she did not follow protocol or follow up.
If I get any kind of record on my name that would be the end of my career as I work in very sensitive areas.

At this stage I’m barely at home as I don’t even want to see the child and neither does any of our family members. Regardless of the outcome this would most likely be the end of our relationship as I don’t see myself living under the same roof as this child again.

So at the end of the day she will have ruined a couple of lives including her own as I’m not sure what would happen once I leave.

That all being said this was more a way for me to let it all out a bit.. call it my own therapy. But I’d like to know what you guys out there think.
 
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with what you did. The problem is that it's not strictly your child and you are inheriting a problem, with attitude formed from an abusive parent. Rather maybe engage the welfare department for psychological assistance as she came from an abusive home and is lashing out. Show the fact that she injured her brother as part of the problem and explain the discipline process taken.

Also, although I said I don't see anything wrong, in this case, physical discipline might not be the answer DUE to the previous abuse. She may just see it as a continuation of the same vein.
 
I'm personally not a fan of corporal punishment, I don't think it's an effective way of dealing with problems. However, I've never had to deal with the kind of situation you found yourself in, I've never had to deal with a child that wasn't brought up by me in the first place so I'm not judging you in any way. You obviously thought it appropriate. Only thing that concerns me is that a spanking shouldn't leave marks or bruises. If the child was able to go around the next day and had marks or bruises to show, then maybe you went too far (not sure what you meant by "...and went and showed as many teachers as she could, including the psychologist that she got a hiding"). Again, I don't want to judge, just my 2c.
 
While I get that this is a very difficult situation, we as the adult sometimes need to see it from the childs point of view. It is even worse in your situation, where the child came out of an abusive house and does not know how to handle herself, based on previous examples from her dad. Lots of time needs to be spend to help her, explain why what she did is wrong, explain the implications of what she has done.
My advice, stop blaming the kid for everything which have gone wrong. Explain the situation to all parties involved and try and find a path forward.
In the end, anger will not resolve this.
 
As a father -

I grew up with smacks and hard knocks - not in a bad way .... but at school, we still got the cane, and when I did something bad, I knew my ol' man was going to give me a snot klap.

Its not the hiding so much, as realising that actions have consequences.

To be honest, I have never smacked my kids - not that I have an ethical view on it, but rather I found that my boys have things that are sacred to them.

My eldest hated being made to sit on his own in a corner - it had a good remedial effect. The younger sucker didnt like his stuff being taken away - so we used that.

At some point - hormones kick in - kids become defiant, and some are specially defiant - which sounds like your issue.
Typically with my kids, after 7 they stop being cute and start thier nonsense - then they go through the ''I know everything'' stage and then into their mid teens the defiance returns.

But again the point is - to teach them that actions have a consequence .... and when they broadcast to the world that mom or dad is lower than shark poo for giving them some what for .... the response you give is - '' yes you got a hiding, but tell them why dear ...... ''

Being a parent is not for sissys and is karma for what we did to our folks.
 
Only thing that concerns me is that a spanking shouldn't leave marks or bruises. If the child was able to go around the next day and had marks or bruises to show, then maybe you went too far

There is no maybe about it. If that kid was able to show a couple of teachers evidence of her being spanked, then OP definitely went too far.
 
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with what you did. The problem is that it's not strictly your child and you are inheriting a problem, with attitude formed from an abusive parent. Rather maybe engage the welfare department for psychological assistance as she came from an abusive home and is lashing out. Show the fact that she injured her brother as part of the problem and explain the discipline process taken.

Also, although I said I don't see anything wrong, in this case, physical discipline might not be the answer DUE to the previous abuse. She may just see it as a continuation of the same vein.

She's been seeing a therapist this whole time and they scaled it back since she's made such great progress (or so it seemed)
As far as punishment goes, spanking is a last resort, I mean if i can find anything that works i'm open to it. We even had a situation where the school forced us to take her to the hospital a couple of months back because she complained about pain. She was going on so bad that the doctors wanted to operated thinking its her appendix. After 3 days in the hospital the doctors told us there's nothing wrong with her she was faking it, something she admitted later. It's really out of control and I've tried everything suggested by the specialist but nothing seems to work...
 
While I get that this is a very difficult situation, we as the adult sometimes need to see it from the childs point of view. It is even worse in your situation, where the child came out of an abusive house and does not know how to handle herself, based on previous examples from her dad. Lots of time needs to be spend to help her, explain why what she did is wrong, explain the implications of what she has done.
My advice, stop blaming the kid for everything which have gone wrong. Explain the situation to all parties involved and try and find a path forward.
In the end, anger will not resolve this.

I've never blamed her in the past, and I've been very sympathetic as I cant even begin to imagine what life she must have had. But when she does something like this because things aren't going her way what should you do? They wanted to put her in her grandparents care for the time being and they just straight said no, because she'll just turn on them if things aren't to her liking.

That being said what's she's done this time, I'm not sure I can get over. If no punishment or rewards system works then what should you do, just give her everything she demands, what kind of person would she turn out to be. We've even let her work out her own rewards and punishment systems but like all of them they failed quickly.
 
Without reading your whole story.

Corporal Punishment and your views

In general children don't understand the concept of responsibility and consequences of one actions, or planning for the future. So while young it may used, in moderation.

Obviously this only applies to your own child. When caring for other people's children, you have to play by their rules.
 
As a father -

I grew up with smacks and hard knocks - not in a bad way .... but at school, we still got the cane, and when I did something bad, I knew my ol' man was going to give me a snot klap.

Its not the hiding so much, as realising that actions have consequences.

To be honest, I have never smacked my kids - not that I have an ethical view on it, but rather I found that my boys have things that are sacred to them.

My eldest hated being made to sit on his own in a corner - it had a good remedial effect. The younger sucker didnt like his stuff being taken away - so we used that.

At some point - hormones kick in - kids become defiant, and some are specially defiant - which sounds like your issue.
Typically with my kids, after 7 they stop being cute and start thier nonsense - then they go through the ''I know everything'' stage and then into their mid teens the defiance returns.

But again the point is - to teach them that actions have a consequence .... and when they broadcast to the world that mom or dad is lower than shark poo for giving them some what for .... the response you give is - '' yes you got a hiding, but tell them why dear ...... ''

Being a parent is not for sissys and is karma for what we did to our folks.

lol i love that ending ;P .She's already admitted that what she did was out of spite and anger and she just wanted to punish us but she regrets it now. Problem is the damage has been done.
 
Its not good to give your child a hiding, it causes long term harm. You should not teach your child that violence is a solution to solving a problem.
 
But I’d like to know what you guys out there think.

I have many points in common with your tale.

I would suggest you and the girlfriend go for a parenting skills course. They go by many other names as well. If you're in the JHB area I can gladly recommend a few people to contact.
 
Its not good to give your child a hiding, it causes long term harm. You should not teach your child that violence is a solution to solving a problem.

That's a fine point but then you should add a recommended alternative?
 
That's a fine point but then you should add a recommended alternative?

There are many alternatives online. I make my son do chores he does not like :) My daughter is still too young. Neither have ever been spanked, my son is very respectful to elders and does not have behaviour issues.

I used to think spankings were okay as I got them, but science is science and the experts are pretty much clear that spanking does long term damage to a child. So no matter what my own personal opinion or belief was. I adjusted it based on evidence.
 
I have many points in common with your tale.

I would suggest you and the girlfriend go for a parenting skills course. They go by many other names as well. If you're in the JHB area I can gladly recommend a few people to contact.

Hey Pinball,

I'm in the JHB area. I'd greatly appreciate it. If there is an opportunity left after all this I'd consider it for sure.
If you'd send me the contact details i'll appreciate it.
 
I've never blamed her in the past, and I've been very sympathetic as I cant even begin to imagine what life she must have had. But when she does something like this because things aren't going her way what should you do? They wanted to put her in her grandparents care for the time being and they just straight said no, because she'll just turn on them if things aren't to her liking.

That being said what's she's done this time, I'm not sure I can get over. If no punishment or rewards system works then what should you do, just give her everything she demands, what kind of person would she turn out to be. We've even let her work out her own rewards and punishment systems but like all of them they failed quickly.

It is easy for me as an outsider to say not to blame her. I can however understand your feeling and I also do not have an answer as to how to handle her. Just giving in to all demands will not help, so some kind of boundary needs to be set. You will however need to do this along with the authorities after her reporting you.
Can you not come to an agreement with welfare as to when meetings need to happen. Surely they need to understand that in order for you and your girlfriend to provide for the children, you need an income? Once the stress of loosing you work is gone, you might be more open to some resolution to the other problem.
 
There is no maybe about it. If that kid was able to show a couple of teachers evidence of her being spanked, then OP definitely went too far.

Seems my dad got off lightly from the authorities.

We used to have purple swollen bruises for days on our butts from getting hidings with planks.
 
There are many alternatives online. I make my son do chores he does not like :)

We've tried chores, she would either do them in a way so you have to redo it or idle around for hours. We've tried this for the whole of last year to also try and teach her responsibility.
 
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