Corporate SA still in white hands??????

[pupa]

Africa is dogged by this lack of incapability's, lack of progress, returning or wasting resources until there is nothing left, Yet all over Africa there is just one common denominator?

 

[JStrike]

pupa : He fired Zuma right after the Shaik trial just on the suspicion of corruption. He has still not been reinstated. You are mistakenly thinking of the ANC instead of the Government.
And as you said, actions speak louder than words. He fired both of them

 

[JStrike]

pupa : What are you getting at?

 

[telkomsuig]

Don't know what the fuss is about... blacks are given freeBEE shares in companies at a steady pace. Here is an idea ... instead of begging and demanding start your own bloody empires. How do the constant whingers think the companies were founded by normal ordinary people with a drive to make money....Anton Rupert started Richmond with 5 pounds and NO apartheid government help in a time Afrikaners were seen as backward farmers.

This constant demanding and begging makes me sick...

 

[Dave A]

During the BBBEE generic code consultation process, it became clear that the objective is 70% of the total economy in black hands. In line with the racial demograhics.

The codes are meant to make that transition happen.

Talk round the table was that prospects were considered good in the corporate arena based on the penetration of EE, but there was little sign of change in small business.

I've come to hold the opposite view. I think transition in the small business arena will ultimately overtake progress in the corporates in the ownership category. This is based on the idea that lots of small deals will be easier to accomplish than a reallocation of the massive wealth tied up in the corporates. Also, the normal churn in the small business arena will produce an everincreasing number of black owners at entry level that will rise rapidly through the ranks as skills in black hands improves. A small business does well to last a generation. A really good corporate tends to take a few generations to build.

Huge corporate wealth was not built overnight; transfering that much equity (in monetary terms) is going to take a long time too under anything near normal economic forces.

The duty of company leadership is to preserve and enhance the value of the company to the benefit of shareholders - The "resistance" is not due to any kind of racial protectionism, but because the corporates are being asked to act against the interest of their shareholders. Accordingly, they have to proceed carefully and try to find value in the deals before they can proceed.

What fascinates me is that corporates have even bought into this culture - corporate social responsibility and black economic empowerent makes good press, but is far removed from the primary purposes of a well run business.

 

[Syndyre]

Speaking at the launch of the 200-strong South African Young Nuclear Professionals , Sonjica said the proposed plan would require building four to six new nuclear reactors, and that the country had enough uranium reserves to fuel such a nuclear energy programme.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/18D224FC-C0A5-42BD-9516-1DBCD0FDD913.htm

Says nothing about the entry requirements for the organisation, whether its a professional body, what the qualifications of the members are etc. so basically it means nothing. For all we know 100 of the members could be part of the Koeberg cleaning crew.

 

[TELESPHORE]

Business does not happen on the colour of your skin. You have an idea, a product, support and a lot of admin and you grow your business. These businesses did not exist before their owners started it. What right has any group got due to their colour of skin to be owners of it. It is THEFT THEFT THEFT!!!!!!!!!!!
There are numerous ‘black’ markets that came to being in parallel. Are they sharing?

 

[antowan]

mod note: poll added

 

[Lord Anubis]

Was in the states earlier this year and believe it or not but AA is still a huge issue there. So even there for some 3 decades this type of issues are still around.

I wish this was all over and we as South African's could just make some money and forget about all this politcr@p and move on with our lives.

 

[Rkootknir]

mod note: poll added

The poll's a bit loaded, don't you think?

A better phrasing:

Considering the fact that around 90% of this country's population were prevented from reaching any kind of potential for 45 years by the oppression of an inhuman bunch of fascists (the other 10%):

Do you think that policies of attempting to redress past wrongs (this is assuming they can be redressed...) - these policies including social & economical upliftment - can be construed as rascist?

/rant

Anyways... While the current bunch of fascists' way of implementing this is exceptionally stupid, there is no doubt in my mind that some kind of compensation should be flowing from the 10% to the 90%.

But hey, that's just me.

 

[telkomsuig]

@ Rkootnir did the zulus and xhosas ever pay compensation to the original Khoisan and bushmen? Did the English ever pay compensation to the Afrikaners ? But hey it is the african way to blame everybody else for being utter failures. Did the fact that Zimbabwe took control of all white owned land businesses help its people I don't think so...It is the BIGGEST failure in the world at the moment.

Here's an idea use all this freeBEE money and maybe grow the economy by actually starting NEW black owned companies and not sit back and wait for the white managed dividends to flow into your bank accounts so you can afford your new flashy 7 series BMW. But that would mean working for your wealth we all know whites never did that they stole all the money they have from the black population when the arrived on ships from europe..

 

[chiskop]

I second Rkootnir's concerns - this is stupid poll.

 

[Dave A]

If we stress requirements, the answer seems obvious.

Just bear in mind that our constitution had to be amended to introduce the concept of fair discrimination otherwise EE and BEE would have been ruled unconstitutional.

From SAHRC here:

The ICERD (International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination) defines racism as follows:
“Any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment, or exercise, on equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural, or any other field of public life.”

The International Council on Human Rights Policy (IHCRP) argues:
“racism has not disappeared… we confront forms of racism that are covert or more complex or are linked to wider issues, such as changes in the nature of the state, gender discrimination, or marginalisation due to developments in the global economy.”

 

[Dave A]

I second Rkootnir's concerns - this is stupid poll.

There. Just voted.

Thinking about it, you're right. The real test here is whether you understood the question.

Oh. The devious genius of antowan

 

[bwana]

Anyways... While the current bunch of fascists' way of implementing this is exceptionally stupid, there is no doubt in my mind that some kind of compensation should be flowing from the 10% to the 90%.

But hey, that's just me.

Would you be willing to quit your job because someone else thinks they deserve it more based on skin colour? You know as noble as it sounds I dont think my family would appreciate it very much.

Perhaps we - the country - should focus on creating new jobs, putting a dent in unemployment, and then filling the vacancies with the best qualified people. But hey - thats just me

 

[rwenzori]

Anyways... While the current bunch of fascists' way of implementing this is exceptionally stupid, there is no doubt in my mind that some kind of compensation should be flowing from the 10% to the 90%.

There has been and still is a lot flowing from the 10%. It is built into the income tax structure, the secondary tax on companies, the import tariffs on "luxury" goods, and particularly into the municipal rates structure where wealth is heavily taxed. Do not forget the RDP levy either. The problem is getting it to the 90%, and this is where the ANC are sinful. For example, large amounts allocated to housing never get spent in many provinces and municipalities. There is also the jobs-for-constituents syndrome whereby we have excessive government, too many layers of government, and far, far too much being spent on salaries as opposed to capital and maintenance. Plus large doses of incompetence, whereby for example very expensive hospital equipment is not used for lack of training.

I do not agree with the concept of "compensation" - maybe "redistribution", as the former implies some kind of right which I do not believe exists anymore.

IMHO as usual.

 

[fivelza]

Perhaps we - the country - should focus on creating new jobs, putting a dent in unemployment, and then filling the vacancies with the best qualified people. But hey - thats just me

I second that, we have a huge skills shortage...so filling any position now is very difficult

 

[Syndyre]

The poll's a bit loaded, don't you think?

A better phrasing:

Considering the fact that around 90% of this country's population were prevented from reaching any kind of potential for 45 years by the oppression of an inhuman bunch of fascists (the other 10%):

Do you think that policies of attempting to redress past wrongs (this is assuming they can be redressed...) - these policies including social & economical upliftment - can be construed as rascist?

/rant

Anyways... While the current bunch of fascists' way of implementing this is exceptionally stupid, there is no doubt in my mind that some kind of compensation should be flowing from the 10% to the 90%.

But hey, that's just me.

But how do you define the fascists and identify them. You can't label all "White" people, however you choose to define that as fascists or supporters of apartheid. Otherwise you're effectively penalising people for the colour of their skin, which is the definition of racism.