WTF dude? I wsa addressing your labelling him a "monkey boy" and just spending waay too much time pointing out how much you think he should get fired. So 4q buddy. Don't be an ass all the time.
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CRICKET: SA v India
- Thread starter jontyB
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WTF dude? I wsa addressing your labelling him a "monkey boy" and just spending waay too much time pointing out how much you think he should get fired. So 4q buddy. Don't be an ass all the time.
@JontyB - well put! I must admit I'm also not a "Smith" fan at the mo, but I like it when people present FACTS to support their point of view.
As you say, his stats INCLUDES the current 'poor' form and he still has such a good average!
Facts are there. He has ability with the bat. Fact remains , he's a crp capt.
You appeared to attack, hence my reply!
If you meant no offence, I apologies for my sacastic reply!
And I still would like to see him fired. Sooner rather than later!
So, once again, who would you put in his place as captain?
Stated before in this thread. Mark Boucher or Aswhwell Prince.
I have noted that you disagree re: Mark Boucher.
Try to hold smith alongside Clive Rice, Kepler Wessels, Hansie Cronje and other. Do you not see a problem with that picture?
Boucher for captain...... no way.
As i said in my previous post - he will crumble under the pressure on a 5 test series against the aussies....
I'm havent seen enough of prince to comment (but just to say hes a test player, not a ODI player.)
Some of you guys are suggesting smithy must go, but dont have a reasonable, decent replacement.
As i said in my previous post - he will crumble under the pressure on a 5 test series against the aussies....
I'm havent seen enough of prince to comment (but just to say hes a test player, not a ODI player.)
Some of you guys are suggesting smithy must go, but dont have a reasonable, decent replacement.
Mark Boucher won't last 20 minutes against the Aussies. And Ashwell is in excellent knick right now, why mess with his mindset and add the strain of captaincy to him? I am a huge Ashwell fan, and believe he is going to become South Africa's anchor - but do not destroy another top order batsman by giving him the captaincy.
Let's have a look: Kepler Wessels: Played for Aus, then captained SA through transformation. He was the only internationally experienced national in the team. Tough choice thereOmac said:
. Clive Rice - hardly a legendary captain. Hansie Cronje - yeah, the devil made him do it.Smith is maturing. He takes risks that more conventional and conservative captains won't take. The 438 game is enough evidence thereof.
NaZKuL
Senior Member
do you think SA should have two diff captains? one for ODI's and one for tests?
I think we should stick with Smith, cos we're not doing too badly, its just his form....
I think we should stick with Smith, cos we're not doing too badly, its just his form....
That's the thing - he is going through a slump atm, but his captaincy is not too bad, and he is well respected by the guys. Add to the fact there is obvious tension between him and the selectors atm. But due to his batting slump everyone calls for his head - and then compare him to Hansie Cronje - a cheat and a crook. Go figure.
Lets get back to THIS game and lost overs
Actually 189 overs cause they came back out
Where can one get stats about over rates, as in how many were bowled per hour by which team. I mean we all mad about the bad light and the guys walking off when they should have stayed, but how many overs would they have been short if they had a full day?
Why I ask this? Well on day ONE SA went to lunch after only 23 overs! 11.5 overs per hour. So India lost us 7 overs!! At tea India had only bowled 51 overs, 9 under, but they picked up the pace to 14 overs per hour.. Kumble??
When drinks were taken after tea, a total of 64 overs were bowled, so although India bowled 13 overs in the hour, we should have had 75 overs at that stage, so we were 11 under. Now when Prince accepted the "light" it was after 73 overs and we lost 17 overs in the day, but even if they had batted until the end of the day, at best we would have seen another 3 or 4 overs??? That is because they lost 16 minutes on the first day according to CricInfo and "play" started 16 minutes earlier on the 2nd day. So India's slow over rate cost about 15 overs in the day and that's just day one.
Anyone have stats for days 2 and 3?
Actually 189 overs cause they came back out
Where can one get stats about over rates, as in how many were bowled per hour by which team. I mean we all mad about the bad light and the guys walking off when they should have stayed, but how many overs would they have been short if they had a full day?
Why I ask this? Well on day ONE SA went to lunch after only 23 overs! 11.5 overs per hour. So India lost us 7 overs!! At tea India had only bowled 51 overs, 9 under, but they picked up the pace to 14 overs per hour.. Kumble??
When drinks were taken after tea, a total of 64 overs were bowled, so although India bowled 13 overs in the hour, we should have had 75 overs at that stage, so we were 11 under. Now when Prince accepted the "light" it was after 73 overs and we lost 17 overs in the day, but even if they had batted until the end of the day, at best we would have seen another 3 or 4 overs??? That is because they lost 16 minutes on the first day according to CricInfo and "play" started 16 minutes earlier on the 2nd day. So India's slow over rate cost about 15 overs in the day and that's just day one.
Anyone have stats for days 2 and 3?
Mark Boucher won't last 20 minutes against the Aussies. And Ashwell is in excellent knick right now, why mess with his mindset and add the strain of captaincy to him? I am a huge Ashwell fan, and believe he is going to become South Africa's anchor - but do not destroy another top order batsman by giving him the captaincy.
Let's have a look: Kepler Wessels: Played for Aus, then captained SA through transformation. He was the only internationally experienced national in the team. Tough choice there
Smith is maturing. He takes risks that more conventional and conservative captains won't take. The 438 game is enough evidence thereof.
438 is evidence of ability to bat. That's all.
Rice, not legendary! Ok it's opinion.
Wessels may have been all we had at the time but a great capt he was!
I think Hansie got exactly what he deserved - but as a capt - no peer (until the devil stepped in)!
I don't know where you get your opinion of Bouch and the Aussies but I don't share it.
Your opinion of Ashwell and possible damage to his performance with regard to captaincy has not been seen at first class level. International is another story, but I believe he has the right mind set to carry it off with great success.
1) SMITH HAS ABILITY WITH THE BAT!
2)
@Jonty - It's sport mate. Let's you and I give the BS a rest! Our opinions differ!
We both want a winning team!
One of the world's greatest batsman Brian Lara went through a horrific slump when he was given the captaincy. Ganguly, same thing. Tendulkar, same thing. Smith was made captain early, which means it's not the captaincy that caused his bad form, but him and his technique and issues inside of him. Graeme Smith guided the team in the 438 ODI, there is no doubt about it. Any conventional, conservative captain would have faltered there.
Bad form happens to every sportsman and it often becomes a stretched out affair. In golf, Tiger Woods went through a 2 and a half year slump, but he's bounced back after making the necessary technical changes and there is once more no doubt that he is on course to be the greatest golfer that ever lived. Ernie Els is going through a torrid time, but he'll bounce back too. Alan Donald went through a long spell where he couldn't get his rythm. All of these guys are/were extremely professional, hard working guys.
In rugby, we have a real tit captaining the national team - he should've been fired ages ago, but he's still there. I don't see a similar calling for his head, and he really is bringing down the team with his ****ty captaincy and thuggery.
Smith has ability with the bat. When he bounces back (and he will) then many will be sighing a big sigh of relief.
I think the role of the captain should be toned down significantly. Setting of fields and making the after match press comments should be the crux of his duties.
NaZKuL
Senior Member
Well, i think Smith as captain of this test match, should take into consideration that they will prob lose at least 2 hours of light 
over the next two days, and must declare by tea, or just before.... I.E, have a slog for 20 over after lunch to push the runs up...
over the next two days, and must declare by tea, or just before.... I.E, have a slog for 20 over after lunch to push the runs up...Sure! You're right! And I'll still be saying he's a crp capt who should only make the team on batting ability!
SMIF is crap. I hate him. He should be dropped. I dont care if he makes a hundred today. He plays once in 10 innings and then every1 shuts up. 10 innings later people start talking again. hes a little inconsistent. And IMHO that average is extremely inflated. Do u remember the double hundreds he scored against bangladesh? (against england he played well, has to be said)
No ways his average against quality opposition would be 47... more like 35.
Maybe i just hate his guts. But the way he treated lance klusener just pissed me off. Lance is a hero. Smith will never be 1 tenth of what lance was to SA...And lance klusener lost his place after wc 2003 becos? he played well against west indies. almost won us the game....
No ways his average against quality opposition would be 47... more like 35.
Maybe i just hate his guts. But the way he treated lance klusener just pissed me off. Lance is a hero. Smith will never be 1 tenth of what lance was to SA...And lance klusener lost his place after wc 2003 becos? he played well against west indies. almost won us the game....