Crystal Web (NEW ISP) ADSL Feedback

[PhreeMe]

It's a pleasure.

The thing is, capacity costs a small fortune in this day and age for unshaped, so we looked at usage patterns over all accounts and scaled our capacity accordingly for this. If users change their usage patterns now irresponsibly, there will inevitably be issues.

This is what we've said about uncapped, unshaped in the past. Here in SA, it is expensive - there's no beating around the bush on that one, so to make it affordable it tends to be a highly contended product instead - we'd like to see if this is going to be the case moving forward or if we can manage it better for customers instead.

But the bottom line is that if customers now decide to go to town on their accounts, we'll be left with no choice but to cancel the unshaped experience, but we have faith that customers will use the net responsibly instead.

Thanks for the reply.

I get it.... was meant more tongue-in-cheek

I'm not sure where I fit in your usage patterns, but not much will change on my side. If anything my usage should come down... downloaded most of the games I wanted in Steam over the last 2 months.

 

[Paparazzi]

I'd actually prefer that customers continue with their current usage patterns and we ensure as little external interference as possible for the time being, so that we can extrapolate from the data. Bottom line is overall usage for now needs to remain where it's been over the past while, and we ask that users not decide to go "download the internet" for now.

We'll then hopefully use this sort of transparency in the future for users to help us to manage the network in the most efficient manner.

You have my word, wont download the internet, just use it as normal

 

[mika1000]

It's a pleasure.

The thing is, capacity costs a small fortune in this day and age for unshaped, so we looked at usage patterns over all accounts and scaled our capacity accordingly for this. If users change their usage patterns now irresponsibly, there will inevitably be issues.

This is what we've said about uncapped, unshaped in the past. Here in SA, it is expensive - there's no beating around the bush on that one, so to make it affordable it tends to be a highly contended product instead - we'd like to see if this is going to be the case moving forward or if we can manage it better for customers instead.

But the bottom line is that if customers now decide to go to town on their accounts, we'll be left with no choice but to cancel the unshaped experience, but we have faith that customers will use the net responsibly instead.

the ceo of one of the large ISP's provided me with data showing the broken down cost of unshaped and its shocking. at least four times the shaped rate. had been a confidential document thus I cannot provide any figures but its not really making it profitable for an ISP to provide unshaped uncapped unless they charge mega bucks.

 

[MGRobinson]

It's a pleasure.

The thing is, capacity costs a small fortune in this day and age for unshaped, so we looked at usage patterns over all accounts and scaled our capacity accordingly for this. If users change their usage patterns now irresponsibly, there will inevitably be issues.

This is what we've said about uncapped, unshaped in the past. Here in SA, it is expensive - there's no beating around the bush on that one, so to make it affordable it tends to be a highly contended product instead - we'd like to see if this is going to be the case moving forward or if we can manage it better for customers instead.

But the bottom line is that if customers now decide to go to town on their accounts, we'll be left with no choice but to cancel the unshaped experience, but we have faith that customers will use the net responsibly instead.

I think that is where Afrihost's problems lie, with all their complaints etc. about speeds and streaming, they are too scared to tell their customers we need to shape you now because you're using too much data. ...or maybe to ignorant... ...or I don't know why they would let a few degrade the network for everyone...

 

[slasherjdc]

I'd actually prefer that customers continue with their current usage patterns and we ensure as little external interference as possible for the time being, so that we can extrapolate from the data. Bottom line is overall usage for now needs to remain where it's been over the past while, and we ask that users not decide to go "download the internet" for now.

We'll then hopefully use this sort of transparency in the future for users to help us to manage the network in the most efficient manner.

Isn't that contradiction in my case?

 

[ShoalDiverSA]

Our monthly usage peaked north of 300GB with another ISP. At that stage, I was still in "download the internet" mode. See something that may be interesting, download it, then never look at it.

Since I've started using automated scraping tools and actively managing what we are following (versus downloading tons of stuff that we may never end up watching), our usage has dropped dramatically. We are hovering just above 100GB per month.

We are also in the process of moving from downloading to streaming (which was going really well until the Hulu add-on for XBMC was broken by Hulu), which should reduce usage even further.

I've stuck to the midnight to 6am slot for NZBs and Torrents since the outset, and I've not found this to be onerous in any way. Everything is scraped, downloaded, sorted and ready for viewing the next evening.

[Potentially dof question alert] One of the common threads I've noticed here is the correlation between Steam downloads and high usage (which is something that doesn't affect me, but it's interesting nevertheless). Is there some way to cache these large files locally, and "share" the utilised bandwidth for the original download of the file across the users that download it from the local cache? May be done already, so apologies if I'm being a muppet asking this.

Anyway, I'm really hoping everyone will play along with the new ground rules in the month ahead. It would be great to have a fully unshaped account in future.

 

[ShoalDiverSA]

Isn't that contradiction in my case?

Yes it is. Behave. *frowns at Slasher*

 

[balky]

I would imagine capped users are already unshaped?

Why would they give you uncapped when you have paid for a set amount of gigs?

Also, that was an awesome email. Gave me chills, it was electrifying.

Capped users will actually have slower speeds because everyone else is now unshaped.

 

[slasherjdc]

roommate is a netflix adict....has a projected usage of 300gb without me even touching the internet
ive been using webafrica night promo atm....so
btw how the hell does hd flix give 10gb a day for a few hours usage is that normal....lol

 

[getafix33]

Your account will continue to operate as awesomely as it always has.

The email was referring to uncapped account holders.

Cool. I have been experiencing very slow speeds for about a week, but have left it as I know you guys have been having hassles. Hopefully this will be sorted in the next few days.

 

[slvR]

Was the email sent out yet? Nothing received on my end.

 

[nand]

Was the email sent out yet? Nothing received on my end.

They forgot about you...

 

[slvR]

They forgot about you...

Not the first time lol

 

[snail112]

It's a pleasure.

The thing is, capacity costs a small fortune in this day and age for unshaped, so we looked at usage patterns over all accounts and scaled our capacity accordingly for this. If users change their usage patterns now irresponsibly, there will inevitably be issues.

This is what we've said about uncapped, unshaped in the past. Here in SA, it is expensive - there's no beating around the bush on that one, so to make it affordable it tends to be a highly contended product instead - we'd like to see if this is going to be the case moving forward or if we can manage it better for customers instead.

But the bottom line is that if customers now decide to go to town on their accounts, we'll be left with no choice but to cancel the unshaped experience, but we have faith that customers will use the net responsibly instead.

I see your point, but for July and August, up to now, I was not able to use my internet as I always used to use it.

My average usage on a 4Mbps line and 2Mbps account was between 100GB and 240GB, (then with that other ISP of the name that must not be mentioned here), excluding my WA capped account (5GB + 5GB) and AH 1GB free account.

Thankfully WA gave away Download Plus data for June & July, so I could substitute with that in July.

I'll ask the house hold not to go bananas and download the net and schedule big downloads between 12am and 6am.

 

[Paparazzi]

Was the email sent out yet? Nothing received on my end.

If you mean the email with the new username and passwords, then I don't think so, cause I haven't received anything either. They will probably send it out during the course of the day!

 

[ToxicBunny]

Then you will be skewing the data...

Yes they've had performance issues, but the underlying raw data can be corrected for the performance problems. If you alter your usage habits, then the underlying raw data can't actually be corrected.

 

[slvR]

If you mean the email with the new username and passwords, then I don't think so, cause I haven't received anything either. They will probably send it out during the course of the day!

I haven't gotten anything from them in the past 2 weeks, I'm referring to the email that was supposed to be sent last night or this morning

 

[saa044]

I see your point, but for July and August, up to now, I was not able to use my internet as I always used to use it.

My average usage on a 4Mbps line and 2Mbps account was between 100GB and 240GB, (then with that other ISP of the name that must not be mentioned here), excluding my WA capped account (5GB + 5GB) and AH 1GB free account.

Thankfully WA gave away Download Plus data for June & July, so I could substitute with that in July.

I'll ask the house hold not to go bananas and download the net and schedule big downloads between 12am and 6am.

Ptawug? Just saying, if you have that then all the data on your Linux download is free.

 

[Crystal Web]

the ceo of one of the large ISP's provided me with data showing the broken down cost of unshaped and its shocking. at least four times the shaped rate. had been a confidential document thus I cannot provide any figures but its not really making it profitable for an ISP to provide unshaped uncapped unless they charge mega bucks.

It's higher than that if you don't contend it to the hills and back as well. We see contention as a form of shaping to an extent when it's highly contended, so we've always questioned the "unshaped" nature of many of these accounts, as well as their profitability to an ISP at the end of the day. Time for us to put up or shutup though, so best we actually test this ourselves.

The bottom line though is that there's no per-gig rate necessarily to an ISP. As Sinbad rightly pointed out, the costs are variable depending on when you choose to use the data the most. Overall profitability of a customer is more of a calculation of their cost to the network rather than looking at simple GP margins and so on. We have a few customers who do close to a TB per month - if you want those customers on unshaped, it's going to cost you a fortune in capacity. Imagine 100 x 20Mbps customers all on unshaped, and you start to realise the costs involved to an ISP when they're NOT downloading. You've got all of this spare capacity that you've purchased to make room for these customers that's not being utilised profitably now. You HAVE to make it up with other users at that point, not the 20Mbps unshaped customers.

I'm getting into too much detail here, but at the end of the day it's an incredibly complex process, and we really do understand when other ISPs say that unshaped, uncapped is not sustainable given current costs to an ISP for capacity. We don't want to land up offering such a service, and then in 6 months' time have to re-evaluate all of our other products and services, change the performance specs etc because now we've got capacity issues. But we're happy to test this out for now to see how it spans out, and if it makes business sense we'll introduce it for our customers as a new product at sustainable price-points.

This market has seen ISPs competing on price for too long without a change in input costs. This just means that it's a constant war to see who has a) the biggest cashflow to sustain it until the inevitable happens, and b) who can offer the crappiest internet while convincing their customers its great. We're hoping to build a loyal and knowledgeable enough customer-base to see through this nonsense. Competing on price without a reduction in input costs results in unsustainable business models. The highest cost to an ISP is bandwidth and human capital, so you're left then asking which one you sacrifice? We'd prefer neither. We have some decent price-points now in the market - there's no more need to compete on price to attract customers until such time as IPC costs are reduced, so we're of the opinion that excellent customer service and great performance are the critical factors now.

 

[Crystal Web]

Capped users will actually have slower speeds because everyone else is now unshaped.

Nope. Capped users won't have slower speeds, or shouldn't.