Crystal Web (NEW ISP) ADSL Feedback

[Hectic]

And that's the beauty of our model. We're going to look to put together some custom packages for our customers to an extent, to ensure that they're on the right product for their specific needs and at the right price. Let's do a quick forecast in this respect - 5000 customers over 2 years. That's 7 customers per day we need to sign up. On a 20% close ratio that's 34 sales discussions a day, or 1.5 per hour. This is why we run a 24 hour desk with enough staff. Because it's very achievable, and could mean the difference between you making 10 frustrated calls a month to your ISP about "problems" that are not problems at all on a technical or network level, but simply about you being on the wrong product for your needs.

When you have 3 products to please everyone, you fail. We've learned that already. If you have 100 products to please everyone, you fail because it's too confusing. If you have a human being willing to listen to what you want, make it easy to talk to them, and create a custom product for your requirements, you're in a far better position.

That's our pipe-dream at least.

It does sound like a win-win situation. My only issue at this stage is how I can ensure not to trip P2P accidentally during the day.

My TP Link W8970 does support P2P blocking and I can't afford a Mikrotik. I wanted to buy one a while back and decided on the TP Link I stead, because there was almost no learning curve and it did a great job till now.

 

[Crystal Web]

Another point, not sure if this could be popular, I'm willing to pay for 3-6 months internet upfront if I'm able to use an unshaped account on the condition that I maintain my habits...

Im sure you'd find others that wouldn't mind this arrangement....for you, it's fixed income...

We'd love that to be honest. Happy to organise a discount as well for this, but the moment we enter contracts things get a little tricky from a legislative perspective, although the up-front payment model covers a lot of this already.

Happy to talk about this if you'd like.

 

[Crystal Web]

It does sound like a win-win situation. My only issue at this stage is how I can ensure not to trip P2P accidentally during the day.

I took all of your feedback on board and we may not introduce this shaping model for existing customers, although it may result in some minor pricing adjustments on our side to keep it this way. We'll see - nothing is final.

 

[Hectic]

Put very simply, Peerblock, no as that's you blocking the connection. Zenmate yes, because that's you encrypting all traffic, meaning that our shaper often can't detect the traffic as coming from the default source we expect. So we can't apply proper network management to this traffic. We also can't only release any shaping on this traffic only for you.

Put yourself in our shoes as an ISP - we need to put together a pricing structure for a product on a specific shaping basis and forecast usage, as well as manage the entire network on this basis. Now customer A encrypts all traffic and bypasses this shaping. Customer A now costs us money, and overall costs everyone else, not just in that customer A is now hogging the bandwidth, but because we now lose money on customer A and don't have those funds to invest in future capacity. Customer A is now hogging IPC, national transit, and international throughput all at the same time. So either we raise the price of that product to everyone just for customer A to use his encryption, or we put together a more appropriately priced product for customer A and he either accepts this or finds another ISP that doesn't care about proper network management for the sake of their business and entire customer base. Then, when that ISP is bankrupt, hopefully IPC costs would have reduced to the point where we no longer have to apply shaping to customer accounts and customer A can return.

I understand. Although my reason for wanting to use Zenmate has nothing to do with bypassing your rules.

It is purely to provide some privacy, but I haven't used it while unshaped and won't in the future, if I'm offered an unshaped account.

Thx for the reply.

 

[F1 Fan]

We'd love that to be honest. Happy to organise a discount as well for this, but the moment we enter contracts things get a little tricky from a legislative perspective, although the up-front payment model covers a lot of this already.

Happy to talk about this if you'd like.

Sure, send me the details via PM tomorrow and i'l look into it...

 

[Crystal Web]

I understand. Although my reason for wanting to use Zenmate has nothing to do with bypassing your rules.

It is purely to provide some privacy, but I haven't used it while unshaped and won't in the future, if I'm offered an unshaped account.

Thx for the reply.

The problem isn't you - it's the guys who use it to bypass shaping that are the problem. If we leave it open, it's open to abuse, and it will be abused. Those are actual abusers of a network and we have to protect ourselves as a business from them, and you as customers using the network from them pillaging your throughput.

Most VPN use is perfectly legit - it's the bit that's not that causes real issues for us. If we operate on a set contention in a pool, and suddenly customer A finds himself in that pool via illicit means and hammers his 40Mbps line, every other customer using bandwidth in that pool suffers, and we receive a flood of support tickets asking us why the network is broken and demanding it be fixed.

 

[Hectic]

The problem isn't you - it's the guys who use it to bypass shaping that are the problem. If we leave it open, it's open to abuse, and it will be abused. Those are actual abusers of a network and we have to protect ourselves as a business from them, and you as customers using the network from them pillaging your throughput.

Most VPN use is perfectly legit - it's the bit that's not that causes real issues for us. If we operate on a set contention in a pool, and suddenly customer A finds himself in that pool via illicit means and hammers his 40Mbps line, every other customer using bandwidth in that pool suffers, and we receive a flood of support tickets asking us why the network is broken and demanding it be fixed.

Jip. I totally understand and it is not a deal breaker for me.

 

[mika1000]

Time-stamp of your chat that was missed was 2:24pm. You left the chat at 2:24pm as well, so perhaps not quite as accurate a victim trail as you're making this out to be.

Your email about the speed was sent at 9pm on a Sunday - 24 hour support is offered Monday to Friday and weekend support are available from 10am to 5pm.

I had a look at today's interaction as well:

AUG 25TH, 2014 AT 2:31PM - You
AUG 25TH, 2014 AT 2:43PM - CW support
AUG 25TH, 2014 AT 2:48PM - You
AUG 25TH, 2014 AT 2:55PM - CW support
AUG 25TH, 2014 AT 3:03PM - You
AUG 25TH, 2014 AT 3:22PM - CW Support
AUG 25TH, 2014 AT 3:42PM - You sending test results (escalated to technical support staff thereafter)
Investigation
AUG 25TH, 2014 AT 4:29PM - Me, explaining why your account was being shaped, due to shaping bypassing being detected
AUG 25TH, 2014 AT 6:25PM - You cancelling

It's all good and well getting upset with a service that's legitimately not working, but when it's worked for 500GBs unshaped then shaping is applied legitimately, and you thereafter use a service known for bypassing shaping, cancelling, throwing your toys out of the cot and calling us names is hardly the mature thing to do. Making out as if support somehow drop the ball with you once you're signed up is also not on, nor is the "you're worse than <insert ISP>" because we enforce rules, after giving you a massive amount of leeway all month on this.

We've accepted that you'd like to cancel, and we're not arguing with you about it. Your expectations about what to expect from your account (700GB per month as you explained) on services such as the ones that resulted in shaping applied today, and expecting this during the day, on a standard account at R599 per month for 10Mbps is not in line with any ISP's offering out there in this country that we're aware of.

its quite funny that a file hosting service (multihoster) I've been using since February 2013 suddenly becomes traffic bypassing after using crystalweb for nearly two months. I've asked you about this before I signed up with you.

I've never had a problem with shaping, but the method how its executed. 40kbps is totally unacceptable. during normal office hours I would accept 100kbps but not 40kbps.

and I'm several hundred gigs under last month. so again your contradicting yourself again as you said usage should be kept the same as last month.

you never offered me any other options even after I've told you about offers from other ISP's, even after you asked me to move my line to CW.

and my email to support was dated 24/08/2014 21.34 and first reply was 25/08/2014 14.43.

and the support panel keep on disconnecting me. I did not get a chance to enter anything.

please sort your stuff out first before accusing me with false data on the forum. (4mb not 10mb) and I can get an uncapped business account for R596 for that matter.

I've never called you names. that's BS and you kno it. you would make me wish I had.

time and again you are making U-turn after U-turn and expect me to stay silent???

 

[DJ...]

My apologies that you feel hard done by. Hopefully you have better luck elsewhere and find the best account for your needs. Cheers.

 

[DJ...]

For the record to everyone else, anyone looking to do 700+ gigs per month on a standard 4Mbps account during daytime usage and using encrypted traffic services known to ISPs for bypassing shaping, is going to have a bad time with all ISPs. We're also very amenable and open to getting people on the correct accounts for their specific requirements. Just ask us politely and we'll see what we can do.

 

[mika1000]

Well intentioned, but then come along people like you, who take advantage, get slapped on the wrist, then circumvent the rules. I am fairly certain that DJ is politely telling you to eff off

Did he offer you a higher usage account for a larger sum of money? Did he try to ensure you would stay?
Or did you think, hey neato, a nice unshaped account that I can go crazy with! Did you ever get that usage with OW?

Not to sure why you are still here arguing the point. They asked you to be reasonable with your usage, but you scoffed all the goodies at the table, not thinking you would suffer the consequences.

its quite funny that my usage averaged around 700gb per month on OW gamers king, and before that on a gold account. I've actually told CW this thus the mention of the 700gb, but CW never offered me any other account options. its quite interesting how some facts get mentioned and others not.

I did not leave OW because of problems downloading as shaping got lifted 17.00 on the dot daily, but because my account had been shared and I could not open facebook or gmail or whatever mail during office hours. and been talked to in the same way CW's doing right now.

 

[DJ...]

but CW never offered me any other account options.

Sent to you today, by me, for us to discuss your options.

Look, this is going around in circles. You want something we're not prepared to offer you. We're not fighting your cancellation. It has been processed. There's no need for this to turn into anything more now. I wish you all the best in the future looking for a better ISP at the prices you're prepared to pay. Cheers...

 

[mika1000]

yes. but options was only mentioned in the cancellation notice. I would not had any problem paying more.

your making me out as some crook or monster yet I did show already several untruths that had been posted about me by you...

I'm not innocent. I'm well aware I used one hell of a lot of data. and I've been told by you (Shaun) to keep my levels the same as the previous month, but not to go mad and exceed previous use....

you were asked if it would be a problem beforehand to be using file hosting (multihosters) services with a negative reply from you.

rules don't change from day to day.

I've read the file hosting service sites from beginning to end and its nowhere mentioned its to bypass shaping or trying in any way to do so... you can choose whether you want your downloads as http or as https. https is done via encryption for safety. that's no difference.

but I do know that this is standard Cybersmart accounts "P2P, automated downloads and news servers are restricted between 07:00AM and 12:30AM. The restriction is lifted and access is restored, outside of these times." that's standard practice for CS accounts.

I'm no coward. I can and always do admit when I'm wrong. but I don't like to be accused of stuff I'm not guilty of.

 

[ShoalDiverSA]

It does sound like a win-win situation. My only issue at this stage is how I can ensure not to trip P2P accidentally during the day.

My TP Link W8970 does support P2P blocking and I can't afford a Mikrotik. I wanted to buy one a while back and decided on the TP Link I stead, because there was almost no learning curve and it did a great job till now.

I've configured my P2P client to run on a fixed port. Set up a schedule rule that starts at 00:00 and ends at 06:00. Then, in port forwarding, set the forwarding for the P2P port to be activated according to the schedule rule. I've probed the traffic and this stops all P2P traffic in its tracks. Before applying this, I had (low levels of) random P2P traffic to my media server outside of scheduled hours due to (I suspect) local peer discovery and DHT (even with scheduling applied in the torrent client).

I've got a D-Link DSL2760u and it's not that spectacular for configuration, so I'm sure the TP-Link will be able to do this as well (it's the router I was going to upgrade to).

It looks like CW have plans in place with respect to the shaper, but I like taking a belt and braces approach. There is no reason why my torrent clients should be running outside the P2P window.

 

[nand]

Just a bit of feedback on the new account.

Immediately after swopping out my account yesterday afternoon, streaming was beyond awful. I use Rdio almost consistently at home, and it couldn't stream for three seconds without buffering.

I had a chat with support who said that based on my investigations that it's shaping being applied. So I laid off the internet for a couple of hours.

Rdio still did not stream nor would Netflix. That was around 8PM.

Rdio is looking better this morning though. But what bothers me is that I'm not being given the option to upgrade my package yet. I'm seeing that we should expect news on this front, so hopefully I can get the same quality of internet as the last couple of months.

Edit: Youtube 1080p streams just fine with shaping, which seems odd.

 

[saa044]

Just a bit of feedback on the new account.

Immediately after swopping out my account yesterday afternoon, streaming was beyond awful. I use Rdio almost consistently at home, and it couldn't stream for three seconds without buffering.

I had a chat with support who said that based on my investigations that it's shaping being applied. So I laid off the internet for a couple of hours.

Rdio still did not stream nor would Netflix. That was around 8PM.

Rdio is looking better this morning though. But what bothers me is that I'm not being given the option to upgrade my package yet. I'm seeing that we should expect news on this front, so hopefully I can get the same quality of internet as the last couple of months.

Edit: Youtube 1080p streams just fine with shaping, which seems odd.

My biggest fear is that a Xbmc link like Nowvideo for instance uses p2p without me knowing it and I get shaped. Although I tested all the popular links and all comes through port 80, I just fear for that one unknown p2p link and a angry wife and daughter thereafter lol.

 

[AstroTurf]

Well, you're going to be on fibre, and you're going to get a sublime experience. Going to reply to your mail in the morning. Just have a ton on my plate at the moment and this current issue is adding to it.

Not a problem

 

[saa044]

Here's what I want if possible.

1. 4mbps home uncapped account
2. P2p blocked on that account till midnight and will resume the block at 6am (don't use P2p or Nntp at all, but would like the option)
3. Netflix and all other streaming services working on the home uncapped account as it is currently on the shaped account.
4. Games must work like it is working now on the Unshaped account.
5. Paying the same price as I have always been paying. Prepared to pay a bit more to insure bufferless streaming.

Possible?

I did discuss this with support and I was ensured that the 4mbps home uncapped account should suit me just fine, I however did not get a answer if it was possible to block p2p/nntp between said hours and to have it open between 12am and 6am.

In short I don't want to pay for a unshaped account to be able to do the above tasks properly.

 

[nand]

My biggest fear is that a Xbmc link like Nowvideo for instance uses p2p without me knowing it and I get shaped. Although I tested all the popular links and all comes through port 80, I just fear for that one unknown p2p link and a angry wife and daughter thereafter lol.

I have a similar problem. I can't really control what leaves my network, as I'm not the only one using it.
I asked(attempted to) which ports they deem important for shaping, so I can at least attempt to mitigate the problem at my side.

Our household relies solely on streaming services, so it's very frustrating when the line is shaped beyond what anyone can call usable.
I'm giving CW the benefit of the doubt for now, hoping their email will relieve the problems. But I'm not paying for an additional month until there's more clarity.

Edit: I'm also in favour of a package like what you suggested. I'm willing to pay a competitive price for it too.

 

[saa044]

I have a similar problem. I can't really control what leaves my network, as I'm not the only one using it.
I asked(attempted to) which ports they deem important for shaping, so I can at least attempt to mitigate the problem at my side.

Our household relies solely on streaming services, so it's very frustrating when the line is shaped beyond what anyone can call usable.
I'm giving CW the benefit of the doubt for now, hoping their email will relieve the problems. But I'm not paying for an additional month until there's more clarity.

Edit: I'm also in favour of a package like what you suggested. I'm willing to pay a competitive price for it too.

Yeah, let's hope they create a package like that for the 2 of us, hopefully priced at home uncapped prices, otherwise a price between home and unshaped. I think what we essentially are looking for is a basic unshaped service with limits to http downloads (http downloads shaped after 2GB?) and p2p/nntp blocked (till midnight) at a reasonable price.