Crystal Web (NEW ISP) ADSL Feedback

[Paul Hjul]

Well technically that's shaping But I like this approach. That's how it should be.

technically the term shaping is deeply problematic ....
however we tend to use it to mean playing around with priorities in a manner that contradicts stated Internet standards (e.g. RFCs) or operation designs for the revenue of the ISP

 

[Crystal Web]

Well technically that's shaping But I like this approach. That's how it should be.

Technically any service that operates on a contention basis is involved in some form of network prioritisation. But the network in its current state is unshaped in that we're not applying specific shaping to specific protocols intentionally. But the last thing a customer wants is for his browsing or streaming to be affected because everyone on the network is downloading torrents at the time, so each type of traffic has to be identified and then operates "independently" for the best possible experience for customers. If the network were set up any other way you'd find packets dropped on all protocols all of the time.

Prioritisation of traffic is essential for proper network management - you know this, but this is more an FYI for others reading. Unshaped as a term is inherently problematic for the sake of full transparency into how shaping is applied.

 

[Zyzzyva]

I know things are still up in the air and dependent on getting the network humming along nicely, but when are you guys hoping to launch?

 

[Swingblade]

Just wanted to say D3 latency's are awesome. Streaming is awesome as well. Steam downloads ran great this morning. Only http downloads are a little slow but I can live with that. A question why can't the nntp downloads only be allowed from 0:00 till 6 or 7 am? Clearly that is what is eating the most bandwidth?

 

[saa044]

Just wanted to say D3 latency's are awesome. Streaming is awesome as well. Steam downloads ran great this morning. Only http downloads are a little slow but I can live with that. A question why can't the nntp downloads only be allowed from 0:00 till 6 or 7 am? Clearly that is what is eating the most bandwidth?

+1

 

[Crystal Web]

Not sure how I feel about this

Just as an aside, if we were to offer a fully uncapped, unshaped, uncontended experience, we'd have to charge every user cost + expenses + margin on raw capacity. You don't want that, trust me! Hardly anyone could afford it. Our current 10Mbps users would be paying in excess of R20,000 per month for that access, and that's on very low margins. And even if we wanted to, Telkom would make that nigh on impossible to offer in any case.

This is why ISPs are forced to find creative ways to coerce a profit from their user-base in the current cost environment. Certain ISPs went on a price-war over the last few years (with no reduction in input costs), and are now in precarious predicaments. Rather than have a price-war and continually justify eroding value to customers, we'd rather set a decent price-point and set of products and attract a more knowledgeable userbase who are aware of this.

We do however want (read: need) your low usage friends and family as well though, as any ISP does. We're happy to cater for a slightly higher usage customer on the basis that the mix in our userbase allows for a sustainable model.

This business ultimately is premised on superior support, quality products, and at the right (sustainable) price-points.

 

[Crystal Web]

I know things are still up in the air and dependent on getting the network humming along nicely, but when are you guys hoping to launch?

Well the network is humming along really well. This has been the critical component in getting ready for a launch. News will go out soon in this respect, but for now we're not ready to publicly disclose a date.

 

[Crystal Web]

Just wanted to say D3 latency's are awesome. Streaming is awesome as well. Steam downloads ran great this morning. Only http downloads are a little slow but I can live with that. A question why can't the nntp downloads only be allowed from 0:00 till 6 or 7 am? Clearly that is what is eating the most bandwidth?

We already have a product for this. It blocks p2p and nntp traffic, and shapes very large http downloads during the day. Releases this all in the evening. Everything else is untouched.

The issue is that we tried to introduce a one-size-fits-all product for simplicity. It's just not feasible to please everyone though with this sort of a product I'm afraid, so now it's a case of ensuring that everyone is on the right product for their needs. Our early-bird customers are in the best position to benefit from this sort of thing

 

[saa044]

We already have a product for this. It blocks p2p and nntp traffic, and shapes very large http downloads during the day. Releases this all in the evening. Everything else is untouched.

The issue is that we tried to introduce a one-size-fits-all product for simplicity. It's just not feasible to please everyone though with this sort of a product I'm afraid, so now it's a case of ensuring that everyone is on the right product for their needs. Our early-bird customers are in the best position to benefit from this sort of thing

Things are changing fast though vs 2 years ago. To me it looks like more and more people are moving to services like Netflix/ Hulu and steam games. never thought I would become a ex pirate, but it is refreshing.

 

[Paul Hjul]

Things are changing fast though vs 2 years ago. To me it looks like more and more people are moving to services like Netflix/ Hulu and steam games. never thought I would become a ex pirate, but it is refreshing.

Are you one of the traitors?

 

[Hectic]

I have no problem with the possibility of shaping P2P during the day, but Http downloads must be available at line speed or close to it, at all times.

 

[semaphore]

@CW - Please tell me your "business" hours are not as draconian as webafrica from 06:00 - 00:00 ?

 

[slasherjdc]

Hows my usage

 

[Crystal Web]

Things are changing fast though vs 2 years ago. To me it looks like more and more people are moving to services like Netflix/ Hulu and steam games. never thought I would become a ex pirate, but it is refreshing.

And there's the other dynamic. Some of our biggest users are actually streaming and not downloading. Now normally an ISP would try to incentivise high usage clients to download in off-peak, but there's only a certain time of the day that one can stream. i.e. when you're at home. So what do you do?

We're fast going to see a premium time-based product unless Telkom come to the party with some surprisingly large IPC cost reductions. If everyone wants max throughput from 5pm onwards then what you're left with is a situation where peak hours are now extended, and peak hours are premium usage hours. We can do some cool things with this as well, but it's expensive.

Or...talk to us about fibre.

 

[slasherjdc]

@CW - Please tell me your "business" hours are not as draconian as webafrica from 06:00 - 00:00 ?

their shaping is close to web africa home capped (which is a good thing..)
they don't actively "shape" though you could start a download at noon a get full speed :/

 

[Necuno]

The issue is that we tried to introduce a one-size-fits-all product for simplicity.

Its a bit like open internet at office... people surf responsible... next thing you know you have one hand surfers and you have to revert back to policed internet. People just can't help themselves, the end.

We already have a product for this. It blocks p2p and nntp traffic, and shapes very large http downloads during the day. Releases this all in the evening. Everything else is untouched.

I would not be happy if I had to download so many nights on a game I bought because I'm only allowed to do it in hours x to x. We are far from games having fit on stiffy and it is going to get larger and larger with titles already clocking over 50 gigs a shot.

 

[slasherjdc]

Its a bit like open internet at office... people surf responsible... next thing you know you have one hand surfers and you have to revert back to policed internet. People just can't help themselves, the end.



I would not be happy if I had to download so many nights on a game I bought because I'm only allowed to do it in hours x to x. We are far from games having fit on stiffy and it is going to get larger and larger with titles already clocking over 50 gigs a shot.

Aren't most games like that locally cached....meaning it doesn't impact an ISP as heavily?(i know steam is......PSN im not completely sure.)

 

[semaphore]

their shaping is close to web africa home capped (which is a good thing..)
they don't actively "shape" though you could start a download at noon a get full speed :/

Read what i said... I did not ask regarding their shaping policies, I asked what they deemed as business hours.

 

[Necuno]

Aren't most games like that locally cached....meaning it doesn't impact an ISP as heavily?(i know steam is......PSN im not completely sure.)

Who knows. I don't see separation between local or international "big" downloads.

 

[Necuno]

Furthermore I think that those who download the internet should be demoted to normal or worse where as the model citizens given access to the better part of the city. If you want to eat like pig, go be with the pigs.