CSI Miami doesn't happen in SA

daveza

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 5, 2004
Messages
47,681
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20081214085542963C833928

CSI Miami doesn't happen in SA - De Lange

By Gaye Davis

One of South Africa's best-kept - and possibly most shameful - secrets is that "probably 50 percent" of scenes of violent crimes are never visited by a specialist crime scene investigator to search for the clues and evidence that could lead to tracking down a suspect and winning a conviction in court.

In a country with one of the highest rates of violent crime in the world, that's a staggering statistic.

But it comes from Johnny de Lange, the deputy justice minister, who has been given the job of heading up the government's mission to overhaul the criminal justice system.

'CSI Miami is what we're talking about'
"Crime scene investigators will admit this themselves," De Lange said in an interview. "It's because there are only about 1 800 of them.

"Do the maths: of about 2,1 million crimes committed each year, perhaps more than a million of them are serious crimes that should have a crime scene investigator involved.

"Without visiting the scene of the crime, the chances of finding the criminal and actually convicting them are zero.

"CSI Miami is what we're talking about. A hair here, a drop of blood there, spilt water - but we don't do any of it. None."

For De Lange, the co-ordinator of the Office for Criminal Justice Reform, the biggest problem isn't the courts with their backlogs of cases or the country's overcrowded jails. It's the fact that "we simply don't know who is committing the crimes.

'We simply don't know who is committing the crimes'
"In fact, the way the system works at the moment, they don't even keep crime scene statistics. Fingerprints and photographs - that's it."

Not only are there too few specialist crime scene investigators, but the police are further hampered by the law itself. It limits them to using only the police's own AFIS fingerprint database of about 10 million prints, while details of people not convicted must, by law, be destroyed. That, says De Lange, is going to change, and fast.

The Cabinet has given special approval for a new bill to be processed by the time Parliament is dissolved when President Kgalema Motlanthe announces the date for next year's elections, possibly in January or February. A special committee is to be appointed to fast-track the bill.

Titled the Criminal Law (Forensic Procedures) Amendment Bill, it will allow police to access the department of home affairs' HANIS database of more than 33 million fingerprints, 2,5 million of them those of foreign nationals. And it will allow the police to comb through another 6 million thumbprints held in the transport department's eNatis system.

It will give the police more powers over taking and storing fingerprints and, in a first for the country, it will provide for a DNA database to be used as a crime-fighting tool.

"I was absolutely stunned when I found out the police don't have access to checking fingerprints against the other databases we have," De Lange said.

"The police have been given more staff and equipment over the past three years, but they don't have a proper database. Britain has a database of about 4,5 million people. If they find evidence at a crime scene and run a check, they have a 52 percent success rate. In South Africa, with our non-existent database, we have a rate of 0,02 percent - we just don't get any hits."

He wants the bill passed as soon as possible, so that IT systems can be put in place.

The next step will be to take the 620 000 "latent" fingerprints and up to 80 000 palm-prints the police are sitting with - taken from crime scenes, but not matched to anybody - and run them through the databases "and see what we pick up".

"Can you imagine how important this will be to police working on violent crimes, when you have a case that is dead and then, suddenly, you can pick up a whole lot of people from their fingerprints? This is going to make for some huge breakthroughs."

With elections just around the corner, and crime a key election platform not only for the ANC but across all parties, getting the bill passed and the machinery put in place for well-publicised breakthroughs in solving old and new crimes is just what the spin-doctor might have ordered for a government perceived as unable to walk the talk on dealing with the scourge.

"This is not just a political issue, it's about the way we live," said De Lange, speaking the day before he was due to attend the funeral of one of his staff, who was shot dead when he went outside his home to investigate noises at his car.

De Lange recalls briefing the Cabinet on the extent of the problems uncovered by his in-depth review of the criminal justice system - and how former president Thabo Mbeki's "jaw dropped".

He got a similar reaction when he spoke at the recent economic summit of the tripartite alliance, where senior ANC, South African Communist Party and Cosatu members were deeply shocked by what they heard.

"Even the new ministers - they're stunned."

Now, De Lange says, he has "total political buy-in from the top", although he's had to spend time rebriefing a new president, a new justice minister and a new safety and security minister, for starters.

It will mean boosting capacity by four or fivefold and focusing on not only recruiting and training but also creating career-paths for detectives within the police force, so that skills aren't lost when they're promoted to drive a desk.

For De Lange, the bill "gives us the opportunity to change the methodology of how crime scene investigators work.

"Once criminals realise the system is starting to bite, it will become easier.

"The problem at the moment is that criminals know they won't be brought to book. And ordinary people know that, too. You don't have to do a review and find statistics to prove that."

I tried to crop the article but it needs to be read in its entirety.

Did we never have a half-decent forensic service ?
 

killadoob

Honorary Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2004
Messages
46,571
Dude CSI is the biggest bunch of crap, do they ever find DNA from someone who does not show up on their system?

Is everyone in america on the DNA list, i get what your saying but i highly doubt CSI is even close to what happens in real life.
 

killadoob

Honorary Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2004
Messages
46,571
Hahah way to expensive, plus with hummer dealer you would see a whole lot of these CSI okes arrive in their "free" harley :p
 

waynegohl

Ancient Astronaut
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
41,459
when we have a crime here everybody wants to be on the tv and they walk all over the crime scene whereas any where else in the world the crime scene is cordoned off.
 

gpe

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
551
Well think of the Forensic Psychologists in the police. How truly unstimulating their environments must be! There is no "Bone Collector" in South Africa. Profiling is useless without a decent Forensics service and yes, scenes are trampled. No databases. :confused:
 

krycor

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
18,546
I wonder if they will be allowed access to the finger print databases, i mean benefits aside i am sure there is some red tape w.r.t privacy etc. Another thing is for our population size, i am sure we have a greater % foreigners in our country.

Anyways i know someone going into csi like work/job after studying at university. Hopefully the gov makes it an attractive career option and with the popularity of csi series they have some people interested.

All in all it comes down to the same issue again, last 10 yrs investing and upgrading of many gov controlled things has been lacking. Makes you wonder what they did with surpluses as you always hear of underspending(besides corruption).
 

Flanders

Honorary Master
Joined
Nov 20, 2003
Messages
14,741
I'll use my favourite CA reply on these forums relating to stories about SA...

Who'd have thunk it.

:D
 

CathJ

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Messages
3,878
No, no - they're going the wrong way with these fingerprint and dna databases. There are huge problems with trawling through large databases to match suspects, statistically, not to mention the privacy issues.

Even the UK is having to back down and delete biometric details of those who were arrested but not convicted.

That aside, the lack of forensics is ridiculous and something definitely needs to be done to build their capacity.
 

PeterCH

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
18,371
Dude CSI is the biggest bunch of crap, do they ever find DNA from someone who does not show up on their system?

Is everyone in america on the DNA list, i get what your saying but i highly doubt CSI is even close to what happens in real life.

CSI is complete cr@p even in America. If you want to see real forensics, watch the Crime and Investigation Channel on DStv. Not only is the show
unrealistic in terms of potrayal of corpses - they always have a breath-holding attractive female model pretending to be a dead body, the deductions
these guys come up with are unrealistic or simply just too specific.
They will find a bit of grease and then they'll match the bit of grease to
a particular make of lubricant or oil that only one company makes, ie
they never find generic oil, generic paint, generic lipstick, etc.
They have a database not only of everyone's DNA (impossible), fingerprints but also of every substance under the sun and they can match a trace amount of a substance eg make-up preservative to a particular manufacturer,
and all within minutes. Also what's with all the LCD screens, it's as if the
set decorator has an LCD fetish. This type of stuff also ages shows.
Brilliant shows from the 90s which feature CRT screens now seem so old,
in 5 years time when we're sitting with holographic displays or high end LCD
paper displays or perhaps huge LED displays 120 inches across - these tiny
20-40 inch things they have will look outdated.
 

Ou grote

Honorary Master
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
15,472
CSI is crap, Quincy is still the king.
Never needed any fancy eauipment to solve a case.
 

Phaff

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
166
Ahhh duno, we just need a red-ish hair guy with shades...he can say to us all.. we, Mr Wolf.. have a stuff up!...
 

Syndyre

Honorary Master
Joined
Jan 26, 2006
Messages
16,821
No, no - they're going the wrong way with these fingerprint and dna databases. There are huge problems with trawling through large databases to match suspects, statistically, not to mention the privacy issues.

Even the UK is having to back down and delete biometric details of those who were arrested but not convicted.

I have to agree, I don't see why the government should have access to my fingerprints etc. when I've never even been accused of a crime.
 

PeterCH

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
18,371
CSI is crap, Quincy is still the king.
Never needed any fancy eauipment to solve a case.

But all those purdy big screen LCD monitors and naked female 'dead bodies' give you a hard-on? :)

Just kiddin'.
 
Top