Csos powers sectional title

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yellowyeti

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Hi Guys
We cant get rid of our useless trustees as they own to many units and outvote us has anyone needed Csos to intervene in removing trustees not fit to serve does this fall under their perview?
 
yellowyeti said:
Hi Guys
We cant get rid of our useless trustees as they own to many units and outvote us has anyone needed Csos to intervene in removing trustees not fit to serve does this fall under their perview?
Click to expand...
Even you own 10 units, you get one vote.
www.pamgolding.co.za

12 things to know about the new Sectional Title legislation

The legislation governing the Sectional Title industry was updated in 2016
www.pamgolding.co.za www.pamgolding.co.za
Section 9
'each owner gets to vote only once in order to reach the required number as opposed to having multiple votes if more units are owned.'
 
Lupus said:
Even you own 10 units, you get one vote.
www.pamgolding.co.za

12 things to know about the new Sectional Title legislation

The legislation governing the Sectional Title industry was updated in 2016
www.pamgolding.co.za www.pamgolding.co.za
Section 9
'each owner gets to vote only once in order to reach the required number as opposed to having multiple votes if more units are ow
Click to expand...
Unfortunately this only applies in special resolutions but for normal resolutions such as nominating trustees and determining levies etc it is counted by PQ and or value:(
 
yellowyeti said:
Unfortunately this only applies in special resolutions but for normal resolutions such as nominating trustees and determining levies etc it is counted by PQ and or value:(
Click to expand...
Doesn't seem to state that. A vote is a vote, main differance between the two types is the required percentage of agreement . That change is specifically negating the quotient.
 
yellowyeti said:
Unfortunately this only applies in special resolutions but for normal resolutions such as nominating trustees and determining levies etc it is counted by PQ and or value:(
Click to expand...
Nope that's not the case, any and all voting is one owner, one vote. That's why it came about as in the past people with more units had more sway.
 
Kosmik said:
Doesn't seem to state that. A vote is a vote, main differance between the two types is the required percentage of agreement . That change is specifically negating the quotient.
Click to expand...
This is the only article in which it states all votes by number go look, I did, you will not find any other case where this is stated .I wish this was right but its not unfortunately
 
Lupus said:
Nope that's not the case, any and all voting is one owner, one vote. That's why it came about as in the past people with more units had more sway.
Click to expand...
This is the only article in which it states all votes by number go look, I did, you will not find any other case where this is stated .I wish this was right but its not unfortunately
 
yellowyeti said:
This is the only article in which it states all votes by number go look, I did, you will not find any other case where this is stated .I wish this was right but its not unfortunately
Click to expand...
As it claims to be part of the change, rather find a copy of the ammendments to the act gazette and see what it says.
 
Lupus said:
Even you own 10 units, you get one vote.
www.pamgolding.co.za

12 things to know about the new Sectional Title legislation

The legislation governing the Sectional Title industry was updated in 2016
www.pamgolding.co.za www.pamgolding.co.za
Section 9
'each owner gets to vote only once in order to reach the required number as opposed to having multiple votes if more units are owned.'
Click to expand...

Before 2016 you had one vote per unit, now your vote is calculated on your percentage quota. So while you can only vote "once" that vote is worth more because you have a higher PQ.

The owner of 2*100m2 now has the same voting power as the owner of 1*200m2 instead of double etc.

OP check if they are not abusing proxies, each voter is only allowed the PQ of one other owner. Often people get proxies for multiple owners which is illegal.

If you don't get anywhere there then you need to start at grass roots and get allies and mob the next election. Get people to apply to be a trustee and then make sure you have enough votes to get them in. That's how I took control of my current complex.

Last resort is CSOS, it's basically impossible to prove unfitness unless they are being grossly negligent. Being useless is not enough. And you need actual proof of this for CSOS to intervene.
 
ScottulusMaximus said:
Before 2016 you had one vote per unit, now your vote is calculated on your percentage quota. So while you can only vote "once" that vote is worth more because you have a higher PQ.

The owner of 2*100m2 now has the same voting power as the owner of 1*200m2 instead of double etc.

OP check if they are not abusing proxies, each voter is only allowed the PQ of one other owner. Often people get proxies for multiple owners which is illegal.

If you don't get anywhere there then you need to start at grass roots and get allies and mob the next election. Get people to apply to be a trustee and then make sure you have enough votes to get them in. That's how I took control of my current complex.

Last resort is CSOS, it's basically impossible to prove unfitness unless they are being grossly negligent. Being useless is not enough. And you need actual proof of this for CSOS to intervene.
Click to expand...

Csos is like the middle man in conflicts like this. They are pretty useless
 
ScottulusMaximus said:
Before 2016 you had one vote per unit, now your vote is calculated on your percentage quota. So while you can only vote "once" that vote is worth more because you have a higher PQ.

The owner of 2*100m2 now has the same voting power as the owner of 1*200m2 instead of double etc.

OP check if they are not abusing proxies, each voter is only allowed the PQ of one other owner. Often people get proxies for multiple owners which is illegal.

If you don't get anywhere there then you need to start at grass roots and get allies and mob the next election. Get people to apply to be a trustee and then make sure you have enough votes to get them in. That's how I took control of my current complex.

Last resort is CSOS, it's basically impossible to prove unfitness unless they are being grossly negligent. Being useless is not enough. And you need actual proof of this for CSOS to intervene.
Click to expand...
Each owner can hold proxies for 2 others. At our building one trustee owns two units but doesn't show at meetings and each of his unit is given as a proxy so if what you say is correct then he can actually just give 1 proxy and that would cover both his units making things even worse for us?
Do have another question one trustee is an employee of the building i have read that employees cannot hold proxies yet he does.He is not directly employed at the building but works for his fathers business which is employed at the building for maintanence?
Who can act as an owner’s proxy and who may not?​
A proxy need not be an owner in the scheme, but he or she cannot be the managing agent, any of the managing agent’s employees or any of the body corporate’s employees.

If you don't get anywhere there then you need to start at grass roots and get allies and mob the next election
Click to expand...
Tried that but 9 of us were outvoted by 7 of them with 1 owner not participating.
 
yellowyeti said:
Each owner can hold proxies for 2 others. At our building one trustee owns two units but doesn't show at meetings and each of his unit is given as a proxy so if what you say is correct then he can actually just give 1 proxy and that would cover both his units making things even worse for us?
Do have another question one trustee is an employee of the building i have read that employees cannot hold proxies yet he does.He is not directly employed at the building but works for his fathers business which is employed at the building for maintanence?
Who can act as an owner’s proxy and who may not?​
A proxy need not be an owner in the scheme, but he or she cannot be the managing agent, any of the managing agent’s employees or any of the body corporate’s employees.


Tried that but 9 of us were outvoted by 7 of them with 1 owner not participating.
Click to expand...

You can only hold 1 proxy, regardless of their PQ, so both properties must be given to a single voter in this case but their voting "power" increases.

He's not an employee of the managing agent or the body corporate so he's allowed to hold a proxy and be a trustee.
 
ScottulusMaximus said:
You can only hold 1 proxy, regardless of their PQ, so both properties must be given to a single voter in this case but their voting "power" increases.

He's not an employee of the managing agent or the body corporate so he's allowed to hold a proxy and be a trustee.
Click to expand...
Definately can hold 2 proxies.
csos.png
 
yellowyeti said:
Hi Guys
We cant get rid of our useless trustees as they own to many units and outvote us has anyone needed Csos to intervene in removing trustees not fit to serve does this fall under their perview?
Click to expand...
There are 3 ways to get rid of trustees:
a) Vote in your own trustees at the AGM.
b) Gather a number of owners that form 25% PQ of the sectional scheme and call a Special General Meeting.
c) At AGM when trustees are elected, there is a section that discusses Trustees Restrictions. You can then resolve to impose severe restrictions on the new trustees. Example: Any expenditure that the trustees want to make, they must convene an owners meeting. Or reduce the trustee spend limit to a small and frustrating amount that. Trustees are obliged to obey the restrictions by law or they can resign.
 
ScottulusMaximus said:
OP check if they are not abusing proxies, each voter is only allowed the PQ of one other owner. Often people get proxies for multiple owners which is illegal.
Click to expand...

citation for this, because this is something that could be useful
 
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