DA Wants H.I.V Testing Without Consent

[JungleBoy]

Please education won't help for shyte, if retards cannot even go for regular testing HTF will education help?

It's not the standard of education that is lacking it is the mentality. You don't need to have much of an education to see your fellow humans dying and suffering from a disease. Unless i am very wrong and people are so fking stupid they can barely walk let alone think.

The simple fact of the matter is that people who cannot regulate themselves should have forced regulation. It's all good and well to say it is their choice to get infected or not but millions of children are also affected by this logic of who cares it is our choice.

If their choice is to take a chance and get infected perhaps it's better not to give them ARV's so the virus can actually start cleansing the gene pool a little faster and perhaps in a generation or two AIDS may be gone.

Pregnant woman are counselled and offered voluntary testing. When babies are born they are given a choice to have them tested for HIV and given drugs if they test positive. Next thing you will be calling for pregnant women who are diagnosed with HIV to be forced to abort...where exactly do you draw the line ? I haven't seen the numbers that suggest that people are refusing to get tested when advised to do so. Why must we chuck out the constitution when there are other workable solutions that do not violate the constitution.

 

[Apache]

Dude apart from the last 3 years we were getting government orders like you cannot believe, you have no idea the amount of money the government has spent on AIDS awareness. Mines like anglo, lonmin etc pumped business our way. The last 3 years or so there have been practically no orders for aids stuff, we were doing in nov about 2-3 bar at one stage just one aids stuff for local municipalities, mines, ngo's and so on. Believe me when i tell you the awareness and education was there but nobody cares. All they want is their free t-shirts and aids goodies. We were even supplying road shows and so on.

Aids awareness has failed so badly the government barely bothers any more, the mines have basically stopped spending plenty money on it as well. Sadly dude believe it or not the government was doing a shyte load and spending a shyte load on aids awareness and it got them nowhere. The only reason i know how it has failed is because we dealt with many people in government and mines who ran programs, they don't have the funding for it anymore.

You cannot throw money at a problem when people think they have rights, choices and freedom nor can you educate them.

People just can't control their urges and do not want to condomise. They believe it can't happen to them.

 

[killadoob]

Pregnant woman are counselled and offered voluntary testing. When babies are born they are given a choice to have them tested for HIV and given drugs if they test positive. Next thing you will be calling for pregnant women who are diagnosed with HIV to be forced to abort...where exactly do you draw the line ? I haven't seen the numbers that suggest that people are refusing to get tested when advised to do so. Why must we chuck out the constitution when there are other workable solutions that do not violate the constitution.

Why do they need to be advised though? Surely anyone with a brain would want to know their status?

Pregnant aids females can have babies, sadly those babies soon become orphaned. Why do you think there are millions of orphaned babies in africa every year? Because dumb asses are having kids knowing they could die at anytime.

Again no education can fix that mentality. They also push the whole you can have kids if you are HIV +. It's not about the kids having aids it is about the parents dying leaving them with no one but obviously you could not that angle right? I have nothing but hatred for the way aids i being handled in all honesty. So much suffering that could be avoided if a harder line was taken.

 

[UnUnOctium]

The DA is surely out of their minds. How would that coexist with the following rights entrenched in our Bill of rights?

http://www.zapiro.com/Cartoons/m_110308tt.jpg

They saw that the ANC has already done it, why can't they?

 

[sjm]

Had they suspected ebola or swine flu you would be tested with scant regard to your rights. When did the right to privacy trump the right to life? AIDS kills more people than ebola and swine flu, why should it not receive the same scrutiny?

Because it is very easy to inadvertently spread ebola & swine flu (even normal contact can do that), whilst the spread of HIV is mostly limited to sexual encounters and other avenues which can be guarded against. If I had HIV & was in the same room as you, you wouldn't catch it whereas the same cannot be said about swine flu or ebola.

 

[WilD_CaT]

So people with an airborne virus should also have the same rights? Should we be stopping them from flying? Should they be going into quarantine?

What makes the biggest killer in africa so different?

How is that the same?

I'm not arguing the infected people are not responsible for infecting others. I'm arguing the un-infected people aren't responsible for the infected and more importantly YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO MY BODY.

So you can give ANY excuse you want, the question remains, are you entitled to my body.

The answer is no. Period.

 

[killadoob]

Are you entitled to have sex knowing you have HIV? Are you entitled to infect other people?

It is your body but that does not mean you can knowingly infect other people. I'm sorry to say but just because it is your body does not give you the right to go and do what you like, although sadly it does.

If you don't know your status and you have unprotected sex you are knowingly infecting people because you cannot be certain you are not.

I love all this BS like it's my body i can do what i like with it. Sure go kill yourself, drink yourself to death and so on but once you are infected there should be laws protecting everyone from this disease.

Considering how bad rape is in africa i would imagine there are thousands and thousands of aids patients infected due to no fault of their own. You can blame society for many of the aids victims because we let people run around with a disease and do as they please. We let them fly across the globe, we let them have unprotected sex and then we sit back and wonder WTF aids is spreading so fast .

 

[sjm]

Are you entitled to have sex knowing you have HIV? Are you entitled to infect other people?

Yes you are. It is your partner's responsibility to either make sure condoms are used and / or regular tests conducted. Each person is responsible for their own body. If someone lies to you & you choose to believe their lies, that is also your responsibility. You cannot legislate away lies in relationships, it is for each person to make sure that they are safe.

 

[killadoob]

Yes you are. It is your partner's responsibility to either make sure condoms are used and / or regular tests conducted. Each person is responsible for their own body. If someone lies to you & you choose to believe their lies, that is also your responsibility. You cannot legislate away lies in relationships, it is for each person to make sure that they are safe.

So you are saying it is fine to lie about aids and the person accepting the lie is at fault?

LOL yea and we wonder why aids is going along like a bullet train. I hope you never get into government pal.

 

[porchrat]

Are you entitled to have sex knowing you have HIV? Are you entitled to infect other people?

If the other person agrees to unprotected sex knowing full well that one of the consequences could be infection then yes you are.

You can't play roulette and then squeal afterwards when you lose claiming you didn't know there was a chance of losing so now you want your money back.

 

[killadoob]

If the other person agrees to unprotected sex knowing full well that one of the consequences could be infection then yes you are.

You can't play roulette and then squeal afterwards when you lose claiming you didn't know there was a chance of losing so now you want your money back.

So the person lying has no blame in the matter?

If that person said yes or i don't know what would the outcome have been? So only one person is at fault in that scenario?

 

[sjm]

So you are saying it is fine to lie about aids and the person accepting the lie is at fault?

LOL yea and we wonder why aids is going along like a bullet train. I hope you never get into government pal.

Morally it is not fine, but if you as a person are having unprotected sex with someone just on their say so then you are an idiot,

 

[porchrat]

So the person lying has no blame in the matter?

If that person said yes or i don't know what would the outcome have been? So only one person is at fault in that scenario?

No they are both being irresponsible. Both are to blame.

One certainly isn't guilty of attempted murder though that is plain ridiculous. We all know unprotected sex carries risks and you engage in it knowing full well that there is a chance you will contract HIV regardless of what your potential partner is claiming about his/her status.

 

[killadoob]

So if you knowingly lie to someone about your status that is not a bad thing?

I understand if someone takes a chance but if you blatantly lie about your status you should go to jail. Who knows maybe the condom breaks or the sex gets a bit rough. I am fairly certain 99% of people won't have protected sex with an hiv infected person, safe or unsafe. The fact that people find it fine to lie about your staus shocks me slightly in all honesty,

 

[Pitbull]

No they are both being irresponsible. Both are to blame.

One certainly isn't guilty of attempted murder though that is plain ridiculous. We all know unprotected sex carries risks and you engage in it knowing full well that there is a chance you will contract HIV regardless of what your potential partner is claiming about his/her status.

This is exactly what I meant with that Taxi driver being convicted of murder...

So if I have HIV and I mislead or Lie to get laid about my status and I do infect someone knowing the risks involved but withheld it from the other party then you don't think I should bare some responsibility of getting the other person infected?

I'm fk'ng dumbstruck. Are you seriously saying this?

 

[killadoob]

This is exactly what I meant with that Taxi driver being convicted of murder...

So if I have HIV and I mislead or Lie to get laid about my status and I do infect someone knowing the risks involved but withheld it from the other party then you don't think I should bare some responsibility of getting the other person infected?

I'm fk'ng dumbstruck. Are you seriously saying this?

Yup the guilty party is the one who took the chance not the person who lied.

 

[sjm]

This is exactly what I meant with that Taxi driver being convicted of murder...

So if I have HIV and I mislead or Lie to get laid about my status and I do infect someone knowing the risks involved but withheld it from the other party then you don't think I should bare some responsibility of getting the other person infected?

I'm fk'ng dumbstruck. Are you seriously saying this?

You bear responsibility for lying and should be charged with attempted murder or something similar, but the other person also bears responsibility for believing you without verifying. If someone you don't (really) know tells you that they are HIV negative, you're an idiot if you take them at their word. YOU need to insist that you both go for tests together before embarking on unprotected sex.

There is no way in hell I'd believe some chick that I'd only known for a few weeks / months. It would be condoms all the way until we'd done tests TOGETHER and I'd seen her negative results.

 

[killadoob]

Yea but at the same time surely we want to ensure people are not lying about their status?

 

[WilD_CaT]

Are you entitled to have sex knowing you have HIV?

No, you are not "entitled" to have sex. Same way that the state or anyone else is not "entitled" to my body or money. But you shouldn't be prevented from haxing sex if it is consensual and your partner is aware of your status. Maybe they have HIV too?

Are you entitled to infect other people?

Same as above. If you know or don't know your status, and you infect someone, you are doing harm to them. Whether you know or don't know your status just affect the punishment for the harm you have caused them, not whether you are guilty or not guilty.

Have you harmed someone? Yes. End of.

It is your body but that does not mean you can knowingly infect other people. I'm sorry to say but just because it is your body does not give you the right to go and do what you like, although sadly it does.

Ok, I don't think you meant to contradict yourself (It both does and doesn't mean ...etc.) but I OWN MY BODY.
"Freedom" or "Ownership" and the concept I am trying to convey is this: Freedom is freedom to do what you want with your body and your property so long as it does not harm anyone else or their property.

I really don't care if you define freedom a different way, when I say the word, it means the above. So if you are going to critique me, you have to critique me based on my idea/concept, and not someone else's concept of freedom.

As you can see from the above meaning of freedom, it does not contradict itself and does not violate the non-aggression principle. It always provides a solution to your dilemma.

If you don't know your status and you have unprotected sex you are knowingly infecting people because you cannot be certain you are not.

Again I don't think you mean to contradict yourself or be unclear, but you are.

If you don't know you are infected, you cannot knowingly infect someone. Period. (The terms are contradictory)
But as I said earlier, whether or not you KNOW you are infected or not is not relevant to a simple and important question.
Did you cause someone else harm?

If yes, then you are guilty of causing someone else harm and should be punished. Whether you did know or didn't know might affect the sentencing or leniency of it.

If you knew and didn't tell them and that person suffers, then you should receive the harshest sentence possible.
If you didn't know, but thought it might be a possibility then there is a case that you were negligent.
If you were very sure you weren't infected, but are not the type of person who takes a new HIV test after every person you've sleepped with (Which is arguably the only way to be sure as condoms are not 100%), then I don't think you should receive the harshest punishment.

I don't think I know of a single person that takes an HIV test every single time they sleep with someone. I'm not just talking about someone new, your wife or husband could be doing the down and dirty behind your back. What if she gets it, infects you without you knowing. Three months later, she decides you need "time apart" and one night on the rebound you hook up. So you unknowingly have harmed someone and given them aids.

For my money, the "partner" screwing around should basically receive 99% of the punishment but you also should receive some punishment, as it was also your choice to sleep with that person. You could've said no. Or could've got an HIV test.

But hey is that reasonable?

Of course not.

I love all this BS like it's my body i can do what i like with it. Sure go kill yourself, drink yourself to death and so on but once you are infected there should be laws protecting everyone from this disease.

Now you are completely missing the point. I am innocent. I've committed no crime. I don't have aids. I've not harmed someone. Ghoti and his DA buddies are arguing that he has the right to FORCE ME to take the states HIV aids test (I don't trust state hospitals to give me panado, nevermind stick me with needles) and he is arguing he has the right to IMPRISON ME or FINE ME if I don't comply. Remember, I've yet to harm or hurt anyone, but I can be imprisoned.

Ghoti and his DA friends also want to put my DNA in a database so he can keep "track" of me. I'm sorry. I'm a private citizen, entitled to my privacy. THIS IS NOT ORWELL's 1984.

He has NO RIGHT to my DNA.

He has NO RIGHT to threaten me with jail if I don't take his tests.

NO RIGHT WHAT SO EVER!

Considering how bad rape is in africa i would imagine there are thousands and thousands of aids patients infected due to no fault of their own. You can blame society for many of the aids victims because we let people run around with a disease and do as they please. We let them fly across the globe, we let them have unprotected sex and then we sit back and wonder WTF aids is spreading so fast .

Considering how bad murder is across the globe, I would imagine there are thousands and thousands of murder victims murdered due to no fualt of their own. We let these murder's fly across the globe, kill people and sit back and wonder why the hell the murder rates ain't dropping so fast.

For comparison you solution to the above would be to chop off EVERYONES hands and feet and thus NO ONE wether they are a murderer (infected) or not, can possibly commit this crime.

CAN YOU SEE WHY I DO NOT FIND THIS PRINCIPLE LOGICAL OR ACCEPTABLE.

I AM NOT A CRIMINAL.

You cannot justify imposing fines and restrictions, threats of jail and forced tests on me because of crimes committed by others. That ain't justice.

 

[killadoob]

Wait you are comparing a murderer with an aids patient. So how do tell if someone is a murderer?

Some sort of test before they fly?

Otherwise your argument is a silly one bud. You should try use perhaps ebola or swine flu as an example. You could even have used herpes or something but murder .

You may not be a criminal but you are carrying a very bad disease that kills thousands of people a day.