DA Wants H.I.V Testing Without Consent

:erm: Clinics provide ARVs....

They are struggling to provide ARVs, hypothetically, if we had double the number of HIV patients, do you think that the government could afford to provide everyone with ARV's?

The village I'm talking about is in North-West, 30km outside of Brits. There is a big difference between a farm/home stead and a village. Eastern Cape is certainly not moving with the times. Generators? Wow? Your province is way behind times, haven't they heard of Eskom, we've been having electricity for nearly 20 years now.
 
I definitely not agree with forced HIV testing. What next? Forced sterilisations? Forced abortions? Gas chambers? It's a slippery slope into very dangerous territory. If you are a political conservative then you should deplore the intrusion of government into your privacy, and if you are a political liberal you should deplore the human rights issues that go along with this.
 
I suppose because of the rather terminal nature of HIV/AIDS. You can cure someone with TB, and Im not against the herpes test being included with the HIV one.... I mean... while we are at it.

Are you aware that you can live a long life with HIV, it's not as "terminal" as you might think:

A 20-year-old HIV-positive person starting antiretroviral (ARV) therapy today can expect to live, on average, to the age of 69, according to new calculations published July 26 in The Lancet. The study authors say this is a life expectancy increase of 37 percent over projections for 20-year-olds starting ARVs during the early years of combination treatment.

http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/hiv_life_exectancy_survival_1667_14989.shtml
 
They are struggling to provide ARVs, hypothetically, if we had double the number of HIV patients, do you think that the government could afford to provide everyone with ARV's?

Our government would be able to provide alot of services, if they could just stop wasting and stealing money!
 
I definitely not agree with forced HIV testing. What next? Forced sterilisations? Forced abortions? Gas chambers? It's a slippery slope into very dangerous territory. If you are a political conservative then you should deplore the intrusion of government into your privacy, and if you are a political liberal you should deplore the human rights issues that go along with this.

I agree.. People if you want to sleep with someone it should be up to both of you to go and get an HIV test. If one person declines then no nookie for you!

Is it really that hard for people to exercise a little self control?
If you sleep around without getting tested well tough **** deal with the consequences..

I do however feel that rapist and murders should get tattoos on their foreheads... but that's another topic..
 
+1,
I agree 100%, while we are at it, why don't we do a national DNA database?

Im all for a national DNA database. That would help catch so many criminals, and help people with organ failures and other donor based emergencies access to life saving information. This should be done when they take our fingerprints for ID/Passport.

When a child is born a biological parents can be established on the fly, and this will teach the "always playing victim" ladies that its not cool to hand over a "hand's ball" to another man.
:sick: :wtf:
 
Im all for a national DNA database. That would help catch so many criminals, and help people with organ failures and other donor based emergencies access to life saving information. This should be done when they take our fingerprints for ID/Passport.
:

+1 On the condition that your genetic material is destroyed once your data is on the system.
 
Im all for a national DNA database. That would help catch so many criminals, and help people with organ failures and other donor based emergencies access to life saving information. This should be done when they take our fingerprints for ID/Passport.


:sick: :wtf:

Still towing the party line. Except now you sound like a Neocon wanting the police state.

How dare you argue you have a right to MY DNA or body.

Letter to Helen Zille from someone I know:
Dear Mrs Helen Zille,

I refer to your SA Today newsletter of 20 November 2011, “Tackling the new AIDS denialism.”

In closing your article, you reiterate your view and you write:

"Lest there is any misunderstanding, I have said it before and I will say it again: the Democratic Alliance will continue, where we govern, to provide the most advanced, free treatment to everyone who tests positive for HIV/AIDS" (yes, even the Twits quoted above.)

In other words, those who choose not to have unprotected sex with multiple, inter-generational concurrent sexual partners, and stay HIV/AIDS free, are forced to support the treatment of those who get the disease. The moral and prudent people will subsidise the reckless people whose actions lead to what you say “wreaks social devastation.”

Do HIV infected people have some sort of special claim that those who are not infected must pay for their treatment? Don’t uninfected people have a right to keep their incomes and not to pay for those infected? How do the uninfected people fit into what you call a "rights-based society?" I get the sense they have less "rights" than infected people, in this instance.

Which leads me to my next point: as you should well know, “providing [sic] the most advanced, free treatment to everyone who tests positive for HIV/AIDS,” reduces the incentive for people to stay HIV/AIDS-free.

It is analogous to the state offering “the most advanced, free treatment” to anyone who is injured in a car accident while driving under the influence of alcohol. That would have a very predictable outcome, yet no-one seems to question the same logic for HIV/AIDS treatment.

Providing this “free” world-class HIV/AIDS treatment to everyone affected by HIV/AIDS will create moral hazard and result in even more HIV/AIDS infections. A better policy to try and stop HIV/AIDS infections would be to provide the worst type of treatment to only certain people infected with HIV/AIDS.

You continue:

"But I also believe it is fair to require everyone to take a regular HIV test (free) and accept responsibility for preventing risk to others. If they do so, they are entitled to live a stigma-free life as valued contributors and role-models in our society. If they don’t, they must be prepared to face criminal charges. "

What will the criminal charge be for? 1) For not taking free regular HIV tests, or 2) for not preventing risks to others, or 3) both? Please clarify as your position is not clear.

You also haven't touched on the responsibility of the other, initially HIV-uninfected party. I believe your policy will remove a layer of responsibility from this person to do his or her background checks on prospective partner(s), should they believe this legislation is effective. It will result in more nannying by the state, and less responsibility for self.

In closing, note that no publicly provided HIV/AIDS test or treatment can ever be “free,” as you say. To provide HIV tests, nurses will be employed, test centres will be set up and maintained, HIV test kits will be used, and records will be kept and maintained. “Free” treatments will cost even more as they will be more longer-term in nature.

These will all cost the taxpayer real, hard earned money, and can only be described as "expensive."

I fear your policy of providing “free” (read: expensive) HIV treatment and tests will achieve the exact opposite of what you intend. I look forward to hearing from you what the “criminal charges” will be for, though.

- Reposted from the Libertarian SA Google Group

I also can't see any more "positive" laws being passed. (Positive in the legal sense, requiring action rather than negative, which is refraining from action)
 
This sort of thing doesn't surprise me coming from the DA. This country really needs a party to oppose the ANC, but it would be far better if we had one that believed in freedom.

What about TB, Herpes etc. Why stop at HIV?
Or influenza? Herpes has become massively overhyped, but common influenza can be dangerous.

Im all for a national DNA database. That would help catch so many criminals
A national DNA database is an incredibly dumb idea. The database of everyone's fingerprints is itself a hugely flawed idea.
 
Im all for a national DNA database. That would help catch so many criminals, and help people with organ failures and other donor based emergencies access to life saving information. This should be done when they take our fingerprints for ID/Passport.


:sick: :wtf:
You can't take data intended for one purpose (ID) and use it for another (crime/medical/etc). That would be a breach of the law.
 
Why not, they want to de stigmatize HIV.

Who is scared? The reality is women gets tested when they go to the clinic when they are pregnant, or give birth. Men only get tested when they are almost dead.

Why not make an HIV test compulsory? All women should be tested for cervical cancer. It is deadlier than HiV. There is a boat load of tests they should make compulsory. HIV tests are cheap and could cost the state less money by keeping people healthy than saving them when they are almost dead.

This makes since to me. STDs should be thrown into the tests. Stds is a big contributer to cancer in women.
 
I do not get the issue. Unless you are walking around HIV+ and doing something you should not be doing then what's the issue?
Surely they will not disclose the results to anyone but the patient?
We NEED to know how many people are infected.
 
I haven't seen one convincing argument either why it should not be done. /shrug

None of these arguments beat the balance of good (for the society) it would do in my mind.
 
I haven't seen one convincing argument either why it should not be done. /shrug

None of these arguments beat the balance of good (for the society) it would do in my mind.

Fine then.

Let me ask you how you see this practically working?
 
Fine then.

Let me ask you how you see this practically working?
Same way as RICA and FICA, slowly phased in over several years. Like with RICA where you could go get registered at PEP/CNA you should be able to use any health service (private or public) from pharmacy level upwards.
 
Same way as RICA and FICA, slowly phased in over several years. Like with RICA where you could go get registered at PEP/CNA you should be able to use any health service (private or public) from pharmacy level upwards.

And then?
 
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