DA Wants H.I.V Testing Without Consent

Mila said:
the one I found shows the amount of pregnant women tested has stayed the same. So the same amount of women still get infected and plus the amount that has already been infected?
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Yes, so in that population the infection rate has remained constant. This is what plateau means.

It may not sound amazing to you but keep in mind that up until now the amount of new infections had been rising each year across the board. So not just the number of people with HIV but the number of new infections occurring was itself rising. So now we have a case of more people carrying the infection than there were last year but despite having more infected folks to pass the virus around we're infecting fewer people.


My problem is. that if 300 000 women ( just a number ) has been tested positive each year because they were pregnant what about the men and the people on the pill?
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What about them? I'm responding to the attempt to claim definitively that HIV is gaining momentum in the face of figures saying the situation is in certain areas actually remaining stable.

So what I'm saying is in light of these sorts of things we can't make definitive claims any longer that HIV is constantly gaining momentum. The efforts undertaken to combat HIV actually could be having a positive effect and we're seeing those now.
 
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Mila said:
I asked why people would refuse a free test.
Alan answered with a snarkey. Because they implant stuffs into you.

:D
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Did you just confuse me with Killadoob. I have never been so insulted :mad:


ghoti said:
Personally, I think the best way to implement it would be to make it compulsory to anyone who uses a medical facility. If you dont wanna get tested, phone your sangoma.
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Except everybody here has a right to health care.
 
Alan said:
Did you just confuse me with Killadoob. I have never been so insulted :mad:




Except everybody here has a right to health care.
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Oh dear hell..
// goes read back

// sees mistake

you may kick a ginger today :o

(fixed)
 
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Porch you seem very confident that aids has plataued but if i may ask how exactly do you figure that?

Have they tested everyone and confirmed or is it a case finger in mouth, lets thumb suck some BS and release a report.

I cannot see how it is possible to confirm or deny the numbers regarding infections as we have absolutely no idea. Mandatory testing would provide us with numbers that you can believe.
 
porchrat said:
Yes, so in that population the infection rate has remained constant. This is what plateau means.

It may not sound amazing to you but keep in mind that up until now the amount of new infections had been rising each year across the board. So not just the number of people with HIV but the number of new infections occurring was itself rising. So now we have a case of more people carrying the infection than there were last year but despite having more infected folks to pass the virus around we're infecting fewer people.



What about them? I'm responding to the attempt to claim definitively that HIV is gaining momentum in the face of figures saying the situation is in certain areas actually remaining stable.

So what I'm saying is in light of these sorts of things we can't make definitive claims any longer that HIV is constantly gaining momentum. The efforts undertaken to combat HIV actually could be having a positive effect and we're seeing those now.
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See the link I found shows it has been rising at the same rate. ( 2011 not included. )

But I see your point. More people are infected ( over all new and old ) but the infection rate is staying the same or just climbing slightly. So more people are responsible.
 
R13... said:
You can be HIV+ but get hit by a bus. Die of a heart condition or something else unrelated to the HIV
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Yup the same can happen if you have ebola or one of those really hectic flu's that will wipe out our entire population. The best thing to do though is not use that logic while considering condomizing. Hmmm maybe i should chance it, i could get hit by a bus tomorrow.
 
R13... said:
You can be HIV+ but get hit by a bus. Die of a heart condition or something else unrelated to the HIV
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You could say the same thing about cancer or many other diseases
 
Mila said:
See the link I found shows it has been rising at the same rate. ( 2011 not included. )

But I see your point. More people are infected ( over all new and old ) but the infection rate is staying the same or just climbing slightly. So more people are responsible.
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Yes exactly the total number of infected is still rising at the same rate but the rate itself is remaining relatively constant. I know it is perhaps a difficult concept to wrap your head around but this actually shows progress considering the infection rate was at one point soaring upwards. As you say it hints at the possibility that people may actually be starting to listen and being more responsible. It also demonstrates that HIV isn't necessarily gathering momentum and we aren't staring down the mouth of a gaping bottomless pit of disease.

For sure we would all like to see the infection rate dropping as opposed to just hovering and even better, the total percentage of the population that is infected dropping. However we have to start somewhere and the last few years have demonstrated a plateau, this is good. Things could certainly be a lot worse.
 
porchrat said:
Yes exactly the total number of infected is still rising at the same rate but the rate itself is remaining relatively constant. I know it is perhaps a difficult concept to wrap your head around but this actually shows progress considering the infection rate was at one point soaring upwards. As you say it hints at the possibility that people may actually be starting to listen. It also demonstrates that HIV isn't necessarily gathering momentum and we aren't staring down the mouth of a gaping bottomless pit of disease.

For sure we would all like to see the infection rate dropping and even better, the total percentage of the population that is infected dropping. However we have to start somewhere and the last few years have demonstrated a plateau, this is good. Things could certainly be a lot worse.
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True. But I don't believe the stats are accurate. They are based on voluntary testing and voluntary disclosure. I don't think that's a good foundation.
 
killadoob said:
Yup the same can happen if you have ebola or one of those really hectic flu's that will wipe out our entire population. The best thing to do though is not use that logic while considering condomizing. Hmmm maybe i should chance it, i could get hit by a bus tomorrow.
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but whatever you do don't go for tests because they will plant homing beacons in you. :p
 
Sinbad said:
True. But I don't believe the stats are accurate. They are based on voluntary testing and voluntary disclosure. I don't think that's a good foundation.
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Porch seems to have skipped my question regarding the stats, he seems very confident in them but i feel the same as you. We have no idea what the stats are, the best we can do is average out the stats we do have and that is not a good system.
 
If I could get tested for a bus hitting me I would




















// runzzzz


:D :twisted:

Seriously

If you could test for that would you not?
 
Sinbad said:
True. But I don't believe the stats are accurate. They are based on voluntary testing and voluntary disclosure. I don't think that's a good foundation.
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They get about a 2/3rds response when it comes to voluntary testing and yes that varies from year to year from province to province. No stats can ever be 100% accurate. The true numbers for any epidemiological investigation are always going to be difficult to estimate. However these are the figures we have and we can't just work off of numbers we pull from our asses based on our own personal experiences. These sorts of figures are the best we could hope to get under the circumstances.

So you can believe what you want but honestly what are you going to accept as more accurate over these stats with which to judge the situation? Your own personal experiences? That seems pretty irrational to me.
 
killadoob said:
Porch you seem very confident that aids has plataued but if i may ask how exactly do you figure that?

Have they tested everyone and confirmed or is it a case finger in mouth, lets thumb suck some BS and release a report.

I cannot see how it is possible to confirm or deny the numbers regarding infections as we have absolutely no idea. Mandatory testing would provide us with numbers that you can believe.
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They are statistics. If you don't know what statistics are and have a general idea of how they work then go back to university I'm not here to teach you the basics of statistics. Frankly you should know the answers to these questions already.

Unless you have never been to university in which case I apologise I realise not everyone goes to university and takes a course on statistics. Still these basics should be known to you.
 
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porchrat said:
Yes exactly the total number of infected is still rising at the same rate but the rate itself is remaining relatively constant. I know it is perhaps a difficult concept to wrap your head around but this actually shows progress considering the infection rate was at one point soaring upwards. As you say it hints at the possibility that people may actually be starting to listen and being more responsible. It also demonstrates that HIV isn't necessarily gathering momentum and we aren't staring down the mouth of a gaping bottomless pit of disease.

For sure we would all like to see the infection rate dropping as opposed to just hovering and even better, the total percentage of the population that is infected dropping. However we have to start somewhere and the last few years have demonstrated a plateau, this is good. Things could certainly be a lot worse.
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thank goodness for meds not making babies sick anymore. Or we would have had a sky high infant death rate :(

And the only way that has been reduced was by testing pregnant women. Is it not compulsory?
 
Nope i will believe the stats when we have forced 95% of the population to get tested. Black white yellow or pink, get tested.

Then we can say what is happening.

So you are saying 2/3's of our population at the moment are getting tested? Could you provide me with a link and numbers for this please because wow that is pretty cool IF IT IS THE CASE.

Mila you can tested for bus hitting but only if go get your status checked. I am sure if a sangoma suggested this we would see a huge rise in testing.
 
killadoob said:
Yup the same can happen if you have ebola or one of those really hectic flu's that will wipe out our entire population. The best thing to do though is not use that logic while considering condomizing. Hmmm maybe i should chance it, i could get hit by a bus tomorrow.
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Alan said:
You could say the same thing about cancer or many other diseases
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The bus thing was obviously an exaggeration. Point is the treatment makes people live long and in America there was a report that they live too long and therefore risk infecting others.
 
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