Damaged hard drive?

[synapseZA]

I see they also mention "no ESD bag or SeaShell". Unfortunately I don't still have the bag it came in.

Go to another computer shop and ask for one - they always have some lying around from computers they have built up.

 

[PostmanPot]

IMO ticking is an immediate sign of physical damage.

Nothing to lose by returning the drive you fscked up, except your clean conscience.

 

[Lycanthrope]

IMO ticking is an immediate sign of physical damage.

Nothing to lose by returning the drive you fscked up, except your clean conscience.

Ah, memories. Reminds me of the time I bought a busted drive from you and then had to spend a good while defending myself just to get you to 1) believe me and then 2) convince supplier that I was telling the truth too. Luckily, it was sorted out in the end Imagine what lovely things I would've had to say about "clear consciences" at this moment otherwise.

Regardless, firstly, no one can really tell if the drive's fall did, in fact, exceeded 350Gs. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. If it didn't and it broke, then his conscience can remain clear since, glory unto him, he handled the drive within the warranty's specifications. If they replace the drive, then it is because they also believe the drive wasn't mishandled. If they don't then it is obviously because they believe otherwise and then, lucky him.

@ Lance -- as synapseZA said, any computer store will have some anti-static bags. I've never seen hide nor hair of an official Seagate box (the last two drives I've bought have all come in their anti-static bags wrapped in about three inches of bubble-wrap, so I wouldn't worry too much about that.

Once again though, best of luck

 

[sn3rd]

Ah, memories. Reminds me of the time I bought a busted drive from you and then had to spend a good while defending myself just to get you to 1) believe me and then 2) convince supplier that I was telling the truth too. Luckily, it was sorted out in the end Imagine what lovely things I would've had to say about "clear consciences" at this moment otherwise.

Regardless, firstly, no one can really tell if the drive's fall did, in fact, exceeded 350Gs. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. If it didn't and it broke, then his conscience can remain clear since, glory unto him, he handled the drive within the warranty's specifications. If they replace the drive, then it is because they also believe the drive wasn't mishandled. If they don't then it is obviously because they believe otherwise and then, lucky him.

@ Lance -- as synapseZA said, any computer store will have some anti-static bags. I've never seen hide nor hair of an official Seagate box (the last two drives I've bought have all come in their anti-static bags wrapped in about three inches of bubble-wrap, so I wouldn't worry too much about that.

Once again though, best of luck

I've got loads of 'em

 

[LancelotSA]

Well I took it back. They said they will have a look at whether it is working and let me know. They did mention that next time I must ensure that I return it in the ESD bag as it could void the warranty but they'll overlook it this time!

I have no conscience because as pointed out by Lycanthrope I did not mistreat the drive or deliberately throw it against he wall. They state it is covered to 350Gs so it is now up to them to decide whether it is covered. The table is not high. The floor is carpeted. I am not capable of doing the maths myself. If they say sorry we can't then so be it. If they replace then cool and it will mean that Seagate becomes my brand of choice going forward. I see a lot of other drives have a 250G limit...

 

[Lycanthrope]

I've got loads of 'em

sn3rd!!!!

Well I took it back. They said they will have a look at whether it is working and let me know. They did mention that next time I must ensure that I return it in the ESD bag as it could void the warranty but they'll overlook it this time!

I have no conscience because as pointed out by Lycanthrope I did not mistreat the drive or deliberately throw it against he wall. They state it is covered to 350Gs so it is now up to them to decide whether it is covered. The table is not high. The floor is carpeted. I am not capable of doing the maths myself. If they say sorry we can't then so be it. If they replace then cool and it will mean that Seagate becomes my brand of choice going forward. I see a lot of other drives have a 250G limit...

Well, I love Seagate :3 I had one 160GB drive which I gave to me mommy when I put a compie together for her and I've had that drive for about 10 years now. I have a 500GB (7200.11--the one with the firmware issues, which I flashed before using it which is going at around 6,359 power-on hours) which I use for my OS and installations and a 1TB ( 7200.12 which is going on 1,545 power-on hours) which I use for storage. I think they easily make the best and most reliable drives out there. Opinions naturally differ on the subject though.

Only gripe with Seagate was the firmware issue they had which they wouldn't admit to. Fortunately they seem to have corrected their ebil capitalist pig dog ways If you ever get another Seagate, always just check the firmware first to be on the safe side.

 

[PostmanPot]

Ah, memories. Reminds me of the time I bought a busted drive from you and then had to spend a good while defending myself just to get you to 1) believe me and then 2) convince supplier that I was telling the truth too. Luckily, it was sorted out in the end Imagine what lovely things I would've had to say about "clear consciences" at this moment otherwise.

The bizarre way in which the drive was busted (for those that don't know - the mystery is that prior to my purchase, the drive must have suffered a drop so bad that had chipped a piece of metal out of the side of it), meant that it was that unbelievable. I am quite sure you understand that most if not all people/resellers would have been equally as perturbed as my supplier and I, and in other words, it was rightfully hard to believe. Or am I wrong? In fact I am still trying to get my head around how you even managed to install half an OS on a drive with such bad physical damage.

I must ask though, what has this got to do with my post, or about clear conscience? Do you think my conscience was dirty at the time?

Regardless, firstly, no one can really tell if the drive's fall did, in fact, exceeded 350Gs.

I can. It clicks.

 

[Lycanthrope]

I must ask though, what has this got to do with my post, or about clear conscience? Do you think my conscience was dirty at the time?

You said that LancelotSA would have nothing to lose by returning the drive except his "clean conscience." I considered that to be patronising, and ironic. Ironic because had you not refunded me then it would've been me patronising your "clean conscience." I was merely noting how thin the line between bull**** and morality is

I can. It clicks.

Of course. How silly of me. Obviously you were there with whatever instruments one would require to measure the velocity, force and trajectory of its fall so as to astutely calculate that it was in fact a fall greater than 350Gs.

Unless you know something I don't, then you are on the same page as the rest of us and don't, as a matter of fact, know whether or not it exceeded 350Gs. It could've been 340Gs and broke--that would still be within the warranty's specifications. Therefore, let the supplier and, if necessary, Seagate decide.

Simple.

 

[PostmanPot]

You said that LancelotSA would have nothing to lose by returning the drive except his "clean conscience." I considered that to be patronising, and ironic. Ironic because had you not refunded me then it would've been me patronising your "clean conscience." I was merely noting how thin the line between bull**** and morality is

No surprises that you considered it to be patronising and ironic - it's clear that you have a chip on your shoulder (excuse the pun ) causing you to read into what I say too much. So no point in going further with what happened between you and I, let alone me trying to even understand what sort of irony that is that you see (it would have been irony if I had had a dirty conscience while incorrectly preaching about good consciences and being patronising). Must be some sort of new irony, negative irony or something.

On the real though, I stand by what I said about only losing a clear conscience. My good friend Lancelot knows he knocked his drive off the table, and he knows that falling and dropping of drives breaks them. The drive didn't break itself, it broke due to misuse. Misuse is not covered under warranty. Lie and you lose your conscience. Simple.

To argue that warranty may still apply because the drive might not have experienced shock of 350Gs, but still broke, is downright wrong, cheeky and unscrupulous IMO. Of course it wouldn't be wrong, cheeky and unscrupulous if the drive wasn't mistreated, and was clicking due to a non-physical damage fault.

I lost an external drive because it fell off a 25cm tall Creative sub-woofer.

Of course. How silly of me. Obviously you were there with whatever instruments one would require to measure the velocity, force and trajectory of its fall so as to astutely calculate that it was in fact a fall greater than 350Gs.

Unless you know something I don't, then you are on the same page as the rest of us and don't, as a matter of fact, know whether or not it exceeded 350Gs. It could've been 340Gs and broke--that would still be within the warranty's specifications. Therefore, let the supplier and, if necessary, Seagate decide.

Simple.

Do you know of cases where hard drives have been dropped, subjected to less than 350Gs, and still broken/started clicking?

 

[Lycanthrope]

No surprises that you considered it to be patronising and ironic - it's clear that you have a chip on your shoulder (excuse the pun ) causing you to read into what I say too much. So no point in going further with what happened between you and I, let alone me trying to even understand what sort of irony that is that you see (it would have been irony if I had had a dirty conscience while incorrectly preaching about good consciences and being patronising). Must be some sort of new irony, negative irony or something.

'tis ironic that you would moan about "clean consciences" when, forgive me if I'm mistaken, it took whining about it on MyBB for you to actually take me seriously and get it sorted. However, no, I don't have a chip on my shoulder (so funny), I just don't trust you.

On the real though, I stand by what I said about only losing a clear conscience. My good friend Lancelot knows he knocked his drive off the table, and he knows that falling and dropping of drives breaks them. The drive didn't break itself, it broke due to misuse. Misuse is not covered under warranty. Lie and you lose your conscience. Simple.

I agree, an accident occurred and it broke. However, they claim the drive can handle up to 350Gs of force, therefore either they use sensationalist marketing and are unwilling to back that up (and thus, if the drive did not hit 350Gs Lancelot is doing nothing more than challenging their advertising) or it did and then gee, that's too bad. Once again, only way to know for certain is if supplier/Seagate ascertain the extent of any internal damage and whether or not that voids the warranty. I'd imagine that 350Gs would reveal more than just a click.

To argue that warranty may still apply because the drive might not have experienced shock of 350Gs, but still broke, is downright wrong, cheeky and unscrupulous IMO. Of course it wouldn't be wrong, cheeky and unscrupulous if the drive wasn't mistreated, and was clicking due to a non-physical damage fault.

Then so is claiming that the drive can handle up to 350Gs of shock. If your graphics card fried because it ran at 75C when the specs claim it can handle 85C, would you also not RMA it in case it ****s with your conscience? Riiiiiight.

I lost an external drive because it fell off a 25cm tall Creative sub-woofer.

Uhm... *pats your back* Poor thing?

Do you know of cases where hard drives have been dropped, subjected to less than 350Gs, and still broken/started clicking?

Do you know of cases where this has been done in a controlled environment to prove either/or?

Once again, there is only one way to be certain and that is through the means LancealotSA has taken.

And, no offence, but I'm not interested in a circular argument with you, nor am I too keen on derailing this thread any further. Thanks though.

 

[PostmanPot]

'tis ironic that you would moan about "clean consciences" when, forgive me if I'm mistaken, it took whining about it on MyBB for you to actually take me seriously and get it sorted. However, no, I don't have a chip on my shoulder (so funny), I just don't trust you.

I collected the damaged hard drive from you and took it seriously before you created a thread here (http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?155109-Trading-Trouble). Forgiven, for your misuse of irony earlier, too.

I don't expect you to trust me - we met on an Internet forum and twice face-to-face for a total of 5 minutes - I would prefer to be neutral and impartial to me, and then have the opportunity to prove that I am trustworthy in my own way. What did (or didn't) I do for you to formulate that you do not trust me? What I can tell you in terms of hints as to whether I am trustworthy or not is that I have met, befriended, sold things to, and worked for dosens and dosens of forumites. Proof is in the pudding?

I agree, an accident occurred and it broke. However, they claim the drive can handle up to 350Gs of force, therefore either they use sensationalist marketing and are unwilling to back that up (and thus, if the drive did not hit 350Gs Lancelot is doing nothing more than challenging their advertising) or it did and then gee, that's too bad. Once again, only way to know for certain is if supplier/Seagate ascertain the extent of any internal damage and whether or not that voids the warranty. I'd imagine that 350Gs would reveal more than just a click.

A forumite worked out earlier in this thread that the force Lancelot's drive experienced would have been in vast excess than 350Gs.

Then so is claiming that the drive can handle up to 350Gs of shock. If your graphics card fried because it ran at 75C when the specs claim it can handle 85C, would you also not RMA it in case it ****s with your conscience? Riiiiiight.

As unclear as it is, it's not. Maybe the drive is designed to break at any force in excess of 350Gs? Maybe anything less than that won't break it?

You are comparing apples and oranges. I'm surprised you don't see that? The graphics card would not have been mishandled, where the hard drive was. Therefore, there nothing about a conscience would apply when returning the graphics card.

As I said previously, it was worked out that the drive experienced way more than 350Gs of shock. Did you miss that bit? Returning a hard drive that you know you mishandled, that you know experienced more shock than what warranty claims to cover, is wrong, cheeky and unscrupulous.

Uhm... *pats your back* Poor thing?

Thanks. Just shows the amount of shock generated, even from such a low height. So to think that there is a possibility a drive that fell from a table would still be subject to warranty return is laughable.

Do you know of cases where this has been done in a controlled environment to prove either/or?

Once again, there is only one way to be certain and that is through the means LancealotSA has taken.

No, I'm asking you because you seem to think there have been.

But as per earlier calculations, we know that Lancelot's drive experienced more than 350Gs of shock.

And, no offence, but I'm not interested in a circular argument with you, nor am I too keen on derailing this thread any further. Thanks though.

Circular? Seems a pretty straight line as far as I see.

Pity you were keen on derailing it after I replied.

 

[LancelotSA]

I can. It clicks.

Does that mean the drive in my old laptop, which also started clicking one day and had to be replaced, had also experienced a force in excess of 350Gs? Apparently a clicking noise is a dead give away of this!

Hmm pretty interesting considering it was never taken out of my laptop and the laptop screen, and all other components, were still in tact! Unless of course the rest of that laptop was capable of withstanding forces far in excess of 350Gs and the damage was all focussed on the drive inside the laptop

 

[LancelotSA]

No surprises that you considered it to be patronising and ironic - it's clear that you have a chip on your shoulder (excuse the pun )

Quite interesting you say that because while reading your posts my immediate thought was that someone here clearly has a chip on their shoulder. I'm sure many things can be read between the lines of this original statement of yours :

Nothing to lose by returning the drive you fscked up, except your clean conscience.

I think the insinuation would be obvious to most people.

A forumite worked out earlier in this thread that the force Lancelot's drive experienced would have been in vast excess than 350Gs.

Did they? Where? Did they delete the post afterwards as the only thing I read was this :

So, for a conservative estimate of the mass ~= 0.5 kg, it would require that your drive took approximately 15 ms to slow to a halt; this is COMPLETELY possible.

Even then these calculations were based on a lot of assumptions as he did not ask how high my desk was, whether the floor was carpeted or tiled, whether the fall was slowed by the USB cable, where the external cradle it was in could have softened the blow.

But of course you know for a fact that it was more than 350Gs. Did you bother reading the thread I linked too? Not quite as cut and dried as you'd like to make out.

Further to this, what difference does it make. Either Seagate replace it or they say they won't. They decide, not you or me.

 

[LancelotSA]

On the real though, I stand by what I said about only losing a clear conscience. My good friend Lancelot knows he knocked his drive off the table, and he knows that falling and dropping of drives breaks them. The drive didn't break itself, it broke due to misuse. Misuse is not covered under warranty. Lie and you lose your conscience. Simple.

There is that chip on the shoulder again!

I visited the Seagate website and was kind enough to share the link to their warranty conditions here for all to see. I also linked to the conditions under which the warranty would be voided! Please feel free to read through it! And once you have get rid of that chip on your shoulder and accept that I have sent it back and the decision on whether to replace is not in your hands and I have no conscience about it what so ever!

Here : http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.j...toid=14de3804f3333210VgnVCM1000001a48090aRCRD

 

[EchoZA]

Possibly. I see it is under warranty until Aug 2012 so let me take it back and see what they say. If I have no joy then so be it.

That sounds like some interesting science though. Are there honestly stickers that can indicate Gs?

Becareful you don't get caught for FRAUD!!!

 

[PostmanPot]

Does that mean the drive in my old laptop, which also started clicking one day and had to be replaced, had also experienced a force in excess of 350Gs? Apparently a clicking noise is a dead give away of this!

Hmm pretty interesting considering it was never taken out of my laptop and the laptop screen, and all other components, were still in tact! Unless of course the rest of that laptop was capable of withstanding forces far in excess of 350Gs and the damage was all focussed on the drive inside the laptop

No it does not. Your functional laptop HDD would have made a different sound to your dead external HDD.

 

[LancelotSA]

No it does not. Your functional laptop HDD would have made a different sound to your dead external HDD.

You really are brilliant at knowing all the details relating to a case without actually being there. Quite a talent. I merely described the problem with the drive that fell as a clicking noise and when chatting to a technician about that old drive I also described it as making a clicking noise. Now you had not heard either drive so it is rather interesting that you know with 100% certainty that the clicking noise differed.

Please refer to that Seagate link!

There are some people who just cannot resist carry their personal issues through from one thread to the next. Shame. They clearly feel annoyed with the way one thread turned out so they make an appearance in any other thread by that person just to make snide comments to try and get some payback.

Thanks to Lycanthrope for sharing some of your attempted underhanded dealings with us. I'll keep that in mind if ever the opportunity arises for us to do business.

 

[LancelotSA]

Becareful you don't get caught for FRAUD!!!

Ha ha ha we have so many jokers popping in here now. Please explain the fraudulent activity.

 

[PostmanPot]

Quite interesting you say that because while reading your posts my immediate thought was that someone here clearly has a chip on their shoulder.

Which posts?

I'm sure many things can be read between the lines of this original statement of yours :

I think the insinuation would be obvious to most people.

What would the insinuation be?

Did they? Where? Did they delete the post afterwards as the only thing I read was this :

and thus, F is proportional to the acceleration. So if you think that the drive slowed to 0 m/s in an extremely short time, then it stands to reason that the force experienced must have been VERY large.

So, for a conservative estimate of the mass ~= 0.5 kg, it would require that your drive took approximately 15 ms to slow to a halt; this is COMPLETELY possible.

And what don't you understand about it? Your drive fell and broke, it displays the exact same signs of all other HDDs that fall and break which never get swapped out.

Even then these calculations were based on a lot of assumptions as he did not ask how high my desk was, whether the floor was carpeted or tiled, whether the fall was slowed by the USB cable, where the external cradle it was in could have softened the blow.

Doesn't matter.

But of course you know for a fact that it was more than 350Gs. Did you bother reading the thread I linked too? Not quite as cut and dried as you'd like to make out.

I do.

Further to this, what difference does it make. Either Seagate replace it or they say they won't. They decide, not you or me.

Doesn't concern me. I have clearly stated my position on the matter for you to udnerstand how this interests me.

 

[PostmanPot]

There is that chip on the shoulder again!

No chip at all.

I visited the Seagate website and was kind enough to share the link to their warranty conditions here for all to see. I also linked to the conditions under which the warranty would be voided! Please feel free to read through it! And once you have get rid of that chip on your shoulder and accept that I have sent it back and the decision on whether to replace is not in your hands and I have no conscience about it what so ever!

Here : http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.j...toid=14de3804f3333210VgnVCM1000001a48090aRCRD

Thanks I'll take a look.

It's not like I would have ever had a tough time accepting you returning your hard drive. It has nothing to do with me. I am just expressing a moral standpoint, which I thought you might be interested in seeing as you are more open minded than others.