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Question of the Day: Have you ever been scammed?
Decisions for Wrath
- Thread starter TheShogun
- Start date
I agree with Diabolus...
Theres gonna be such a surge of DK's, other tanking classes will be negelected... blizzzards attempt to speed up leveling just wont help
I feel sorry for the warriors... since DK's dont appear to be using mana for spells, i guess stam gear is the next best thing
Theres gonna be such a surge of DK's, other tanking classes will be negelected... blizzzards attempt to speed up leveling just wont help
I feel sorry for the warriors... since DK's dont appear to be using mana for spells, i guess stam gear is the next best thing
diabolus
Executive Member
TheShogun said:
Well think about that carefully. There's not a shortage because tanking classes suck. It's the "act of tanking" that isn't everyone's cup of tea. I also don't think tanking classes are that hard to level either.
Will there -really- be more people that -can- and -want- to tank? DK tank "overflow" will be based all around "hype" and being "l33t". It certainly won't be because people suddenly figured after all this time, they want to tank.
Problem with tanks is, you only need 1 in a group of 5, and 2 in a group of 10 . As opposed to the amount of dpsers and healers. So if everyone suddenly switch to some quasi dps-tank class, something's gotta give....
. It migh even turn out that the -current- tanks will see this as an opportunity -not- to tank anymore [because now everyone can tank].Also i don't think there's -really- a tank shortage. It's more a matter of people that -can- tank, don't do pugs or simply don't spec to tank [because they don't want to]. A tank usually are a leader type of role [i.,e. have to coordinate everything] , and tanking a pug is just a pain in the arse. So what happens? Tanks only tank in a guild/friends context and ignore pugs as far as possible. So this "might" create the illusion of a shortage, while in your guild you might actually have to rotate tanks in and out of raids.
For example : Look at the class stats :
http://www.warcraftrealms.com/censu...id=-1&minlevel=70&maxlevel=70&servertypeid=-1
In total Warrior is the most popular class! [even beating hunter at some stage]
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@diabolus
Your point about it not being a class shortage is a good one, because 3 solid options for 5 man are indeed enough.
I think the fact less people can tank or want to tank is closer to the real cause of the tank shortage.
Personally I'm quite happy to tank, I just haven't leveled a tank to 70. I was busy with an Alliance druid but now that I'm looking to go fully Horde, I can't bring myself to level a fugly Horde Druid.
I also think the problem with Feral Tanks is the fact that the 'Will you go Resto question' arises from time to time and personally I just want to move to a class where that is never an issue coz it annoys the crap out of me.
Warrior tanking is a lot harder then Good 'ol Feral Roll Face Tanking (tm) but the thought of leveling a warrior to 70 isn't one that appeals.
I don't like the Rage mechanic especially on a Warrior where Rage is harder to generate then a Druid.
Pally Prot has the same problem as Druids with Holy Pallies being in hot demand.
For those reasons alone the chance of me leveling a Deathknight as a Tank are much higher then any other tanking class.
Your point about it not being a class shortage is a good one, because 3 solid options for 5 man are indeed enough.
I think the fact less people can tank or want to tank is closer to the real cause of the tank shortage.
Personally I'm quite happy to tank, I just haven't leveled a tank to 70. I was busy with an Alliance druid but now that I'm looking to go fully Horde, I can't bring myself to level a fugly Horde Druid.
I also think the problem with Feral Tanks is the fact that the 'Will you go Resto question' arises from time to time and personally I just want to move to a class where that is never an issue coz it annoys the crap out of me.
Warrior tanking is a lot harder then Good 'ol Feral Roll Face Tanking (tm) but the thought of leveling a warrior to 70 isn't one that appeals.
I don't like the Rage mechanic especially on a Warrior where Rage is harder to generate then a Druid.
Pally Prot has the same problem as Druids with Holy Pallies being in hot demand.
For those reasons alone the chance of me leveling a Deathknight as a Tank are much higher then any other tanking class.
diabolus
Executive Member
TheShogun said:
With DK-tanks wiping raids for months to come, we're probably going to find a noob term for it very soon. I can already see the term "Huntard" becoming a lesser used one and something like "DrunkWipe" or "DeathWipe" popping up . A bad tank is much worse than a bad hunter as it will result in a wipe like 90% of the time.
The poor pugs who's now gonna have an abundance of DK-tanks [who's probably gonna be exact same people who played their hunters like "tards" ] is gonna have some big repair bills coming their way
. Unless of course they are making this new class so imba that tanking becomes as easy as dps'ing [i.e you can actually slack of in the back and spam something and voila top of the damage meters too! ] . But then again, if that's the case, no one is gonna play the "oldschool" tanking classes.
Yea, the catch with existing tanking classes is it's "flexibility" to become something entirely different [i.e. resto druid or holy pally] . Somewhere these same people are going to switch to DK too...and poof goes the healers. I sometimes wonder how many pallies/resto druids REALLY -want- to heal as opposed to being a lekka dps-tank-aoe meatshield.
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semiautomatix
Honorary Master
Blizzard has not set a date yet and we know, and this isn't a bad thing, Blizzard will not release until they are 100% satisfied that the product is (virtually) bug free and ready for consumer consumption. So the predicted date could move further and further :/
With DK-tanks wiping raids for months to come, we're probably going to find a noob term for it very soon. I can already see the term "Huntard" becoming a lesser used one and something like "DrunkWipe" or "DeathWipe" popping up . I bad tank is much worse than a bad hunter as it will result in a wipe like 90% of the time.
The poor pugs who's now gonna have an abundance of DK-tanks [who's probably gonna be exact same people who played their hunters like "tards" ] is gonna have some big repair bills coming their way
Unless of course they are making this new class so imba that tanking becomes as easy as dps'ing [i.e you can actually slack of in the back and spam something and voila top of the damage meters too! ] . But then again, if that's the case, no one is gonna play the "oldschool" tanking classes.
While we might indeed see a new wave of noobery I think people are more likely to try play DKnights as DPS then as Tanks.
Not only that but we already see a ton of Idiots trying to tank with the current 3 Tank classes.
When BC hit did u see a flood of Pally Tanks? I highly doubt it so I doubt we'll see DKnights being quickly elevated to the rank of Huntard.
diabolus
Executive Member
TheShogun said:
Well i thought the Paladin class were there since always...BC only opened it to the Horde side. So everyone by then knew what Paladins are used for [i.e. healing vs. tanking] .
Also keep in mind, having to level from lvl 1 vs. just getting a lvl 60 class dropped in your lap.....i'm 99% certain every single lvl 70 is gonna make a death knight. Where withTBC with Shammies/Pallies, it wasn't exactly new classes and would "maybe" consider leveling another char . Even then they might only get to lvl 20 and think it sucks and move on. I mean there's no logical reason not to make a DK.....
I'm just a bit confussled about what Blizzard is trying to do with this class in terms of the bigger picture. I mean some people might consider leveling up a tank right now just in time for WoTlk ...but with the DK coming, they probably won't. Why will anyone level a warrior/druid/tanking pally up knowing what's coming?
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Prot Pallies only became viable in BC. Pre-BC it was Pally? Holy or GTFO. Ret was lame as all hell and Prot was worthless.
Until we kno a bit more I'll agree that it is difficult to fit DKnights into the big picture.
Unfortunately even after we kno how they work it will only be once we see lvl 80 Raiding content that we'll be able to truly understand their role in the greater scheme of killing things.
Warriors are just behind rogues and hunters as the most popular class in the game.
And yet, a tanking warrior is the rarest thing on this green earth.
I think, just because DK's will be good tanks, won't mean that every DK will *be* a tank. There'll probably be a flood of people who want a combination of warlock+arms warrior, instead of dk tanks. When it comes down to brass tacks, people don't generally *like* tanking. Same goes for dps. It's why the ratio of dps to heal+tanks is about 70-30.
Another tanking class is a godsend, because the tank situation pre BC was even worse. Ferals and Protadins were a joke, and the word 'tank' meant Warrior. That kind of role exclusivity should never exist, no class should have a 'monopoly' on being the bestest at X. While Prot Warrs may still be preferred as MT's today, that role is increasingly being filled by druids and paladins, and I personally welcome that wholeheartedly, because every time a run gets cancelled because 1 tank's line died or he had a RL issue or something, I die a little bit inside. This game sorely needs more tanks and healerrs, and ways to make those roles fun and desireable rather than just necessary.
And yet, a tanking warrior is the rarest thing on this green earth.
I think, just because DK's will be good tanks, won't mean that every DK will *be* a tank. There'll probably be a flood of people who want a combination of warlock+arms warrior, instead of dk tanks. When it comes down to brass tacks, people don't generally *like* tanking. Same goes for dps. It's why the ratio of dps to heal+tanks is about 70-30.
Another tanking class is a godsend, because the tank situation pre BC was even worse. Ferals and Protadins were a joke, and the word 'tank' meant Warrior. That kind of role exclusivity should never exist, no class should have a 'monopoly' on being the bestest at X. While Prot Warrs may still be preferred as MT's today, that role is increasingly being filled by druids and paladins, and I personally welcome that wholeheartedly, because every time a run gets cancelled because 1 tank's line died or he had a RL issue or something, I die a little bit inside. This game sorely needs more tanks and healerrs, and ways to make those roles fun and desireable rather than just necessary.
diabolus
Executive Member
KHayne said:
Indeed, however i would think a more interesting approach would be to have less "cookie-cutter" encounter requirements. In other words, why do we actually NEED a "melee-take-all-da-damage" aka "tank" person for everything? ESPECIALLY since it's obvious only a minority actually -enjoys- this role.
I'm thinking specifically of encounters like Shade of Aran. It's a mage, you can not tank him. Why can't Blizzard make an instance like that , where classic tanking is the exception rather than the rule? I think someone there at Blizzard/MMO-land needs to think out of the box for a change.
In other words if people enjoy playing a DPS-role but every single instance/encounter needs a tank and very few actually likes to tank.......how does that get to : "Lets add a tanking class" vs. "Lets actually make it viable to do stuff without a dedicated tank " .
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The problem is that while that works for some encounters it would break much of the group dynamic of WoW.
"No Tanks, ok then wtf am I healing? I want to No Healers too."
There is actually a WoWinsider article from a Warrior talking about tanking and his gripes as a Fury Warrior.
Yeah, it's a nice idea, and fights like Aran are a breath of fresh air. But theyre the exception to the rule, and it needs to stay that way. If there was no need for tanks or healers, it would remove a lot of the depth that this game has.
It's an age old formula since the days of Ultima and Everquest, it works extremely well, and ultimately you don't want to fix what isn't borken.
It's an age old formula since the days of Ultima and Everquest, it works extremely well, and ultimately you don't want to fix what isn't borken.