Degree or diploma?

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shay8642

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Hey .
I'm 17 atm and have gotten provisional acceptance at DUT and UJ.
What i want to know is whether a degree in computer science at UJ or a NDip : IT-Business applications at DUT is better when it comes to the work environment and job stability.
Thanks
 
You can't really say which one is gonna have a better workplace environment and job stability.
 
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shay8642 said:
Hey .
I'm 17 atm and have gotten provisional acceptance at DUT and UJ.
What i want to know is whether a degree in computer science at UJ or a NDip : IT-Business applications at DUT is better when it comes to the work environment and job stability.
Thanks
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Just some further info for you. You get 2 different types of degrees. A Btech Degree is a degree done at DUT after you have finished your Diploma. A BSC Degree is one done at a university.

I did an Engineering Diploma about 8 years ago. I had friends from school that did Engineering Degrees (BSC). The below observations I have made are only from what I have experienced and shouldn't be considered the norm but may help you.

Job adverts will generally ask for BSC or Btech giving the impression that they are the same but they aren't. BSC is much more theoretical in comparison with deeper math basis compared to Btech. BSC guys are better respected and paid than Btech guys (IN GENERAL).

I find that the Diploma guys got a job faster but that is because they are "cheaper" and can be used to do hands on work as well as admin/management/design so they are easier to utilise at first.

The BSC Degree guys generally can "only" be expected do admin/ managements/design office bound work so they had to wait a little longer to find a job. They make significantly more $ than Diploma guys. It all depends on years experience, type of experience and job type but my Degree buddies make from 25% to 50% more than me for the same kind of responsibility levels.

I am currently studying a Btech: Engineering: Mechanical to get better pay, my job wont change any time soon. It takes 1 year full-time or 2 years part time to do the Btech after you have done your Diploma.

I wouldn't say either option guarantees better stability. Major difference is the pay. Go for the BSC Degree if you can.

Don't forget that UNISA also offers Diplomas, Btech Degrees and BSC Degrees but you will take longer to do it that route. Many guys I know did their Diploma through DUT full time, then got a full time job, then did Btech part time via UNISA whilst working (this is not an easy option!).
 
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Do a degree, its worth It in the end. Plus it will give you a good grounding in the theory & fundamentals behind the major you wish to pursue.

Plus, towards the end of your degree, last year usually, you can apply to graduate programs and enter the job market
 
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A degree from a good uni will get you better job offers if you do not have any contacts in the company. This can get your career off to a flyer. A degree will also offer faster progression if you stay technical. A degree is irrelevant if you switch from technical to management.
 
3WA said:
A degree from a good uni will get you better job offers if you do not have any contacts in the company. This can get your career off to a flyer. A degree will also offer faster progression if you stay technical. A degree is irrelevant if you switch from technical to management.
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I strongly disagree with this. Having a degree makes climbing the ranks in a management level, significantly simpler. Many people I work with have hit a promotion cap of sorts, as they lack degrees.
 
Messugga said:
I strongly disagree with this. Having a degree makes climbing the ranks in a management level, significantly simpler. Many people I work with have hit a promotion cap of sorts, as they lack degrees.
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The skills and knowledge you learn in a degree are irrelevant to management. Management is not about being in the top twentieth percentile of technical skills, it's about dealing with schit. If you have three-four years of work experience, you can probably demonstrate the ability to deal with schit.

There are also qualifications you can pick up while working that can break the glass ceiling.
 
Thanks for the replies. I will be going for the degree then.Happy New Year to everyone
 
3WA said:
The skills and knowledge you learn in a degree are irrelevant to management. Management is not about being in the top twentieth percentile of technical skills, it's about dealing with schit. If you have three-four years of work experience, you can probably demonstrate the ability to deal with schit.

There are also qualifications you can pick up while working that can break the glass ceiling.
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I think the point is that a diploma doesn't offer as much in terms of management than what a degree does.

Whether experience offers better opportunities for management development is debatable, my own experience suggests it doesn't as my first and only job was in an executive management environment- I had no work experience prior to this position and I held it for seven years.
 
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Depends what you want to do.

In my line, diplomats are more value than graduates, but in your chosen career it may be opposite.
 
Also to note, the NDip OP mentioned is more inclined for BA's as they cover SAP in the course.
 
I also suggest a degree in CS. If by work environment, you also include, how enjoyable the type of work you do is, then CS usually gives you more interesting options.

3WA said:
The skills and knowledge you learn in a degree are irrelevant to management. Management is not about being in the top twentieth percentile of technical skills, it's about dealing with schit. If you have three-four years of work experience, you can probably demonstrate the ability to deal with schit.

There are also qualifications you can pick up while working that can break the glass ceiling.
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When I was a manager, I thanked my luck stars that I was in the top percentile of the relelvant technical skills - it really makes dealing with the schit a lot easier. Having full cognition of what my guys were doing and what the trade-offs of the various decisions I had to make was critical - a previously median level skill set engineer, would not be able to make the right calls. The entire hierarchy where I've worked in the past has almost always been structured by selecting those with the right people/leadership skills out of the pool of top technical performers.
 
Here is the major difference. With a diploma, you have a salary ceiling. With a degree you do not. A company will always tell you that they can't pay someone with a diploma more than what they pay a person with a degree, even if you are the best employee under the sun. When it gets to promotion time, the degree person will be promoted before the diploma person and you will forever accept it because he/she is suppose to be higher qualified.

If you can do it, study for the degree. Just keep in mind that getting a degree does not guarantee you a high paying job upfront but in the long run, it will benefit you more than a diploma. I am speaking based on my 30 years experience and I have worked for 4 corporates.
 
I know everyone is going to say Degree here because its safer, but have done multiple degrees and diploma's both undergraduate and post graduate, the decision must really come down to the type of person that you are.

A degree will generally be ore theory oriented with a broad exposure across the discipline you are studying, A Diploma is far more practically oriented and more focused on the core of what you want to study.

So if you are a theory person, you'll probably Degree. If you're practical and hands-on Diploma.

I wouldn't worry about the salary ceiling stuff, in IT especially, what you studied is trumped heavily by experience. And if you do a diploma upfront, nothing stops you from completing a post graduate degree at a university at a later stage. I'm of the belief that you should always try to study something new every year or two.

That said, and on the more social side, the life experience you game from an established university education is something I would never want anyone to miss out on. Its probably the best years of anyone's life and the contacts made will serve you later on in life. For that reason alone I'd say hit UJ for a degree.

(Disclaimer: I went to UCT so have no idea of the UJ and DUT student life, so I'm working on the comparison between UCT and CPUT.)
 
I would always suggest a degree rather than a diploma.

The electives you take, such as maths (especially for compsci), will prove to be worth it someday. I rarely ever have the need to do extensive maths when programming, but there have been about two occasions when I would not have been able to solve problems without it. Other extras like some management courses just augment your skills even further.
 
Shay, I am in the IT industry 31 years now. I started before PC's even existed :-). In my view the degree is the better option.

But, let me also add, over time I have found all these qualifications to be smoke and mirrors, meaning, when companies hire IT staff, they do not care what qualification you have, they are only interested in can you do the job, or can you not.

The qualification and degree, helps you to get the job, but does not guarantee you you will be able to do the job.

I have seen many graduates that came in with huge chips on their shoulders, demanding huge pay and thinking they will be up and running and doing the job immediately. Take it from me, a rude awakening awaits you as to what you study, and how it is in the real world.

I have seen IT people with no qualification outperforming guys with degrees.

In my view it is depressing to have to study for 3 to 4 years, to get that degree and then only start your IT career. I have seen guys, with no qualification, started immediately, yes, got terrible pay, and had to do the dog work for years, but by the time the degree guys came in, these dudes had already 3/4 years experience, and they could outperform the degree guys easily.

With that I am not saying don't go study, all qualifications are good, and it is simple fact that most companies will simply throw your CV in the trashcan if you don't have a qualification, won't even consider you.

But, in the end, your question, if you are going to do the qualification, in my view the degree is the better route to go.

One last thing, I hope you are sure this is the career you want to do, as it is not for everybody, I have seen many who could not cope with this career and rather moved on to other careers. It is brutal if you or your parents paid for your studies for 3 or 4 years, and supporting you, and then you find out this is not the correct occupation for you. So be very very sure this is what you want to do. Don't get sucked in by it is a good paying job, yes it is, but, believe me, you pay back for the salary you receive.
 
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