Denel exploring Rooivalk programme restart

Jakes147 said:
Taken at ATE, apparently the only privately owned attack helicopter in south Africa.
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It was modified by a company as a demonstrator for peace keeping in Africa. The very large cannon in the nose was unique.
 
This was the good ol days when we still had a thing called an army
 
Compton_effect said:
You mean Paramount. And they have a few of those for Testing and development (And all the old Airforce Mirage CZ's) They upgraded all the Algerian Hinds to that variant.
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Correct, at the time that I took the photo they were called ATE. They design and build composite rotor blades for various helicopters including the MI-24. The first time they landed one of the hinds at ATE (Paramount) it took off half the carport roofs.
http://www.paramountgroup.biz/en/integrated-systems/composite-rotor-blades.html
 
AntiGanda said:
The article rings true with what I have heard myself. The Rooivalk is an old apartheid era design that was based on French Puma (Oryx) helicopters we had already. That limited their appeal because the French were not amused about the sale of their technology by another country.

The costs are a factor, but that is usually based on a unit model. The more they make, the less they cost to buy. Nobody bought, and SA only took 12, so not exactly a vote of confidence in their own product.
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LOL!

A multirole medium-size utility helicopter, Atlas Oryx is manufactured by Denel Aerospace Systems for the South African Air Force (SAAF). Based in South Africa, Denel Aerospace (formerly known as Atlas Aircraft Corporation) is a division of Denel (Pyt), one of the biggest manufacturers of defence equipment in the country. Oryx is an 8t helicopter with three cockpit crew seats, 16 troop seats or up to 12 VIP seats. It comes in single-pilot (visual flight rules) and dual-pilot (instrument flight rules) versions.
Oryx was first launched in 1991 as a transport helicopter for the SAAF. It can accommodate a crew of three members, 20 fully equipped troops or six wounded personnel on stretchers with four attendants. Oryx can carry 6,000kg of cargo on the external sling or 3,600kg of freight in the cabin.
On 10 May 2007, Denel Aviation received Eurocopter accreditation, which allows Denel Aviation's maintenance repair and overhaul (MRO) facility to provide dynamic components of the Oryx aircraft in South Africa as well as the African continent. The accreditation also provides complete access and exposure to international best practices.

And you say the Rooivalk, an attack helicopter, is based on a troop carrier?
 
Sinbad said:
LOL!

A multirole medium-size utility helicopter, Atlas Oryx is manufactured by Denel Aerospace Systems for the South African Air Force (SAAF). Based in South Africa, Denel Aerospace (formerly known as Atlas Aircraft Corporation) is a division of Denel (Pyt), one of the biggest manufacturers of defence equipment in the country. Oryx is an 8t helicopter with three cockpit crew seats, 16 troop seats or up to 12 VIP seats. It comes in single-pilot (visual flight rules) and dual-pilot (instrument flight rules) versions.
Oryx was first launched in 1991 as a transport helicopter for the SAAF. It can accommodate a crew of three members, 20 fully equipped troops or six wounded personnel on stretchers with four attendants. Oryx can carry 6,000kg of cargo on the external sling or 3,600kg of freight in the cabin.
On 10 May 2007, Denel Aviation received Eurocopter accreditation, which allows Denel Aviation's maintenance repair and overhaul (MRO) facility to provide dynamic components of the Oryx aircraft in South Africa as well as the African continent. The accreditation also provides complete access and exposure to international best practices.

And you say the Rooivalk, an attack helicopter, is based on a troop carrier?
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It's basically a reverse-engineered Puma/Oryx - it uses the same engines and main rotor. So the same amount of power in a smaller body.
 
The Voice said:
It's basically a reverse-engineered Puma/Oryx - it uses the same engines and main rotor. So the same amount of power in a smaller body.
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Engines are pretty much commodities though, so the only really "copied" thing is the rotor?
 
AntiGanda said:
The article rings true with what I have heard myself. The Rooivalk is an old apartheid era design that was based on French Puma (Oryx) helicopters we had already. That limited their appeal because the French were not amused about the sale of their technology by another country.

The costs are a factor, but that is usually based on a unit model. The more they make, the less they cost to buy. Nobody bought, and SA only took 12, so not exactly a vote of confidence in their own product.
Click to expand...

The reason we only took 12 was because the SANDF had its budget slashed to the bone and the SAAF was trying to save its fighter fleet rather than invest in what was seen by them as an army toy. The Rooivalk's downfall had more to do with politics both domestic and foreign than with its capabilities.

Also, could you please actually try counter my argument against you rather than just repeating yourself. Its getting tiresome refuting your points only for you to keep repeating them as if that somehow makes them valid.
 
The Voice said:
It's basically a reverse-engineered Puma/Oryx - it uses the same engines and main rotor. So the same amount of power in a smaller body.
Click to expand...

Basically its the Puma body with the more modern Cougar powerplant and avionics. We'd bought the parts from the French via a Spanish middleman. But it was radically upgraded and redesigned to our requirements - that it is acknowledged as a completely different craft - perfectly suited to African conditions and extremely powerfull.
In fact - in the early 00's the Airforce considered selling some and the British MoD practically jumped at buying them.

When we started looking at a helicopter gunship -we originally wanted to base it on the Gazelle or the Dauphin, but the French didn't want to sell us the rights to manufacture them. So they decided to base it on the Oryx. And then the Army started stacking on requirements. Instead of getting a Cobra equivalent, we buit a Apache.
 
I just had an AH-64D Apache Longbow fly over me, literally about an hour ago. Very low altitude, tree top level, could see the Hellfire AGM's and the CRV7 rocket pods strapped to the pylons on the wings.

Gave me goosebumps all over.

I like the Rooivalk, but that Apache just looked more intimidating. Given its proven track record, I guess that is what sways my personal opinion of the Apache.
 
buka001 said:
I just had an AH-64D Apache Longbow fly over me, literally about an hour ago. Very low altitude, tree top level, could see the Hellfire AGM's and the CRV7 rocket pods strapped to the pylons on the wings.

Gave me goosebumps all over.

I like the Rooivalk, but that Apache just looked more intimidating. Given its proven track record, I guess that is what sways my personal opinion of the Apache.
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The Apache was designed to fly at low level wih their rotor-top cameras poking out, but in Iraq they were vulnerable to small arms fire. Now they fly so high, they use super-zoom just to see their target.
 
AntiGanda said:
The Apache was designed to fly at low level wih their rotor-top cameras poking out, but in Iraq they were vulnerable to small arms fire. Now they fly so high, they use super-zoom just to see their target.
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Now you are just talking nonsense, no ganda of any kind. They didn't have rotor top cameras and don't even now.

They do have rotor top millimetric radar on the AH-64D Longbow.

The Bell OH-58 Kiowa helicopter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_OH-58_Kiowa) had above rotor cameras and sighting systems and could do laser target painting, for the older AH-64s and AH-1 Cobras.
 
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AntiGanda said:
The Apache was designed to fly at low level wih their rotor-top cameras poking out, but in Iraq they were vulnerable to small arms fire. Now they fly so high, they use super-zoom just to see their target.
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The more you post, the more you confirm that you know jack **** about anything military related.
 
AntiGanda said:
The Apache was designed to fly at low level wih their rotor-top cameras poking out, but in Iraq they were vulnerable to small arms fire. Now they fly so high, they use super-zoom just to see their target.
Click to expand...

supersunbird said:
Now you are just talking nonsense, no ganda of any kind. They didn't have rotor top cameras and don't even now.

They do have rotor top millimetric radar on the AH-64D Longbow.

The Bell OH-58 Kiowa helicopter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_OH-58_Kiowa) had above rotor cameras and sighting systems and could do laser target painting, for the older AH-64s and AH-1 Cobras.
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Agree with anti on this one.


The apache was designed for low low low flight belowe tree line height and top mounted camera will tag targets then they pop up and down goes the badguy, but the Irag war almost completely changed the design and purpose of the original apache.


I read this somewhere ( will try to find the book )

Plus I know I have also heard it on discovery show was called top 10 or something like that.
 
Thor187 said:
Agree with anti on this one.


The apache was designed for low low low flight belowe tree line height and top mounted camera will tag targets then they pop up and down goes the badguy, but the Irag war almost completely changed the design and purpose of the original apache.


I read this somewhere ( will try to find the book )

Plus I know I have also heard it on discovery show was called top 10 or something like that.
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Stick to Mjolnir or do you want to take part in the https://www.google.co.za/search?q=a...=qRlJVamtIoXY7Aa4voCYAg&sqi=2&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ challenge too?

Here you can see the prototype:
https://www.google.co.za/search?q=a...0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=ah-64+apache+prototype
 
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