Denel exploring Rooivalk programme restart

FoXtroT said:
I beg to differ, Denel is well known for its missiles. The ZT-3 Ingwe has been a great success for them and has been sold to a number of nations, particularly in North Africa and the Middle East. With the Mokopa now in the final stages of development, they have a missile that can match the performance of the Hellfire.
Click to expand...

North Africa and Middle East.. They are more like 'Amateur Dramatics clubs' than the 'International Stage' - Even after that, SA doesnt have a track record for stability and I doubt any nation will single source their arms to SA. Most of the military mass productions sites were re-purposed.

The helicopter is awesome - but I think international Military politics will play a bigger toll.
 
Last edited:
Ricard said:
North Africa and Middle East.. They are more like 'Amateur Dramatics clubs' than the 'International Stage' - Even after that, SA doesnt have a track record for stability and I doubt any nation will single source their arms to SA. Most of the military mass productions sites were re-purposed.
Click to expand...

When your weapons are being fired in anger against the likes of ISIS I think that qualifies as 'International Stage'. In any case very few countries single source their arms to any one country, even the US purchases arms from abroad including SA. Brazil has entered into partnership with SA to develop and purchase the A-Darter (nearing completion) as their future AAM and will likely co-develop the radar guided R-Darter. Finland have also purchased the Umkhonto SAM for use on their corvettes. There are plenty of opportunities for a non-aligned state such as SA to supply arms.
 
FoXtroT said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNOwCBZp6bs

The Ukrainian Hinds have been unable to support UN operations at night or in bad weather while the Rooivalk can.
Click to expand...

You extrapolate this from ONE mission in which Hinds were unable to acquire the target due to bad weather? Ignoring that the Rooivalks went in half an hour later, which conceivably could have allowed the weather to clear enough to allow acquisition?

Sorry, but a single successful mission - that also happens to be the Rooivalk's first and only combat mission - does not prove the viability of the platform.
 
The_Assimilator said:
You extrapolate this from ONE mission in which Hinds were unable to acquire the target due to bad weather? Ignoring that the Rooivalks went in half an hour later, which conceivably could have allowed the weather to clear enough to allow acquisition?

Sorry, but a single successful mission - that also happens to be the Rooivalk's first and only combat mission - does not prove the viability of the platform.
Click to expand...

I didn't extrapolate from this single mission, it just provided an convenient way to illustrate my point. You could take a number of other things as indications that it is superior to the Hind; in the OPs article the head of MONUSCO says himself that the Rooivalk has been a game changer for their mission (when Ukrainian Hinds have been there for ages), the UN pleaded with SA to deploy it in the first place even arranging special financing for its deployment and has stated it would like for it to be used in more missions.

The Rooivalk was also a front runner in many Attack Helicopter tenders put out by governments when it was initially marketed, The Aussies, Turks and Brits were all very keen to choose it as their attack helicopter until Eurocopter (in the case of Turkey and Australia) stepped in and said they would not provide support for the Rooivalks engines (made by Eurocopter) and in the case of the UK the US said they would not allow Denel to integrate the Hellfire onto the Rooivalk, hence the UK opting instead for the Apache.

Furthermore, that was not the only combat mission the Rooivalk has been involved in, just the only one the SA media has decided to publicise.
 
Jase said:
As a tampon tiffy we were issued with R5's, shorter and around half a kilo lighter (although rifle PT still made this rifle feel like a ton). No wire cutter though but we had an assortment of medical 'implements' to assist us in obtaining liquid refreshments from the local shebeen. Ahh how I almost miss 'diensplig'.
Click to expand...

The original R4's had what was called a floating pin, the later issues, they put a spring in.
After loading the first round into the chamber, when you take it out there was an indent on the firing cap of the round. After about 4 or 5 times using that same round with an increaing indent, it was enough for a shot to go off.
 
My neighbour until last year was for years a Rooivalk pilot and later Rooivalk instructor in 16 Squadron. We've talked extensively on the comparative capabilities of that chopper vs others, and in his very informed opinion, the Rooivalk is *** ****** **** ****** than northern hemisphere kit, and it's ***** ******* **** gives it an advantage in certain ******* and ***** ***** conditions. It is also very *********.

Personally, I don't think the Rooivalk has a chance in international markets. Our own political overlords do not inspire confidence in potential customers that the system will be supported for 20-30 years.
 
Last edited:
I seem to remember that one of the major impediments to international sales was who was going to support it in 15-25 years time? With Denel hemorrhaging skilled staff potential customers walked away.
 
Last edited:
Taken at ATE, apparently the only privately owned attack helicopter in south Africa.
 

Attachments

  • 1430758945418.jpg
    1430758945418.jpg
    48.7 KB · Views: 349
AntiGanda said:
http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/what-went-wrong-with-the-rooivalk-2007-06-08-1

It's all there.
Click to expand...

You are quoting an 8 year old article that is filled with half-truths and isn't relevent to why they are thinking of restarting production. There is credible interest from a number of countries in acquiring some, they aren't doing it because they feel like it or because the SAAF would like to have more.

Furthermore its avionics have been improved since it was first produced to its current incarnation ie. Rooivalk Mk1F. It is also typical for most military computer systems to be surprisingly old when the systems are first introduced, heck even the F-22 Raptor has 90's era hardware. Its a fact of military development that doesn't seemed to have been solved.
 
Arthur said:
We've talked extensively on the comparative capabilities of that chopper vs others, and in his very informed opinion, the Rooivalk is *** ****** **** ****** than northern hemisphere kit, and it's ***** ******* **** gives it an advantage in certain ******* and ***** ***** conditions. It is also very *********.
Click to expand...

Do you speak english motherfscker?
 
FoXtroT said:
R1s and R4s are completely different rifles. You are correct that the R1 is the Belgium FN (don't think there is any actual difference just we gave it our own designation) which is chambered for 7.62mm NATO. The R4 however is based an the Israeli Galil which in turn was based on the AK-47 and is chambered for 5.56mm NATO ammunition. If you look carefully at the R4 and an AK you will notice the similarity.
Click to expand...

Spot on and not just a 7.62 like the AK but 7.62x54
 
FoXtroT said:
You are quoting an 8 year old article that is filled with half-truths and isn't relevent to why they are thinking of restarting production. There is credible interest from a number of countries in acquiring some, they aren't doing it because they feel like it or because the SAAF would like to have more.

Furthermore its avionics have been improved since it was first produced to its current incarnation ie. Rooivalk Mk1F. It is also typical for most military computer systems to be surprisingly old when the systems are first introduced, heck even the F-22 Raptor has 90's era hardware. Its a fact of military development that doesn't seemed to have been solved.
Click to expand...
The article rings true with what I have heard myself. The Rooivalk is an old apartheid era design that was based on French Puma (Oryx) helicopters we had already. That limited their appeal because the French were not amused about the sale of their technology by another country.

The costs are a factor, but that is usually based on a unit model. The more they make, the less they cost to buy. Nobody bought, and SA only took 12, so not exactly a vote of confidence in their own product.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X