Did you ever do drugs?

[superB]

You are almost as fanatical about your anti NA stance as some of the NA fanatics are...

Hypocrisy no?

 

[Dolby]

Fanatical because I posted a link?

 

[superB]

You do know NA is a load of bull**** - right?

Well that's the thing with NA : it is addicts that have decided 'enough is enough' and join the program. That's a large part of the battle won anyway - which, of course, NA will take credit for should the person not do drugs again.

However the rate for failure is 95% - and as has been pointed out, some people have gone to rehabs/12 steps many, many times and still relapse.

Is it an effective program? I don't think so

They've probably brainwashed him already :/

RIP

I'm not - that's how they operate

Ask anyone that has been and then managed to get out. They operate as a cult (proven). NA was the reason my relationship ended actually - which is why I'm so anti-NA.

Read this when you're free ...http://www.orange-papers.org/

Fanatical because I posted a link?

After reviewing the above posts you're right. You're not vemehently against NA at all. You're their biggest fan.

Just because it works for some and not for others doesnt mean you get to knock it. Just because it hasnt worked for me doesnt mean that it hasnt worked for others (whether your website refutes that or not). Be a bit more open minded, perhaps a little less judgemental and leave people to do whatever it is they think they need to do in order to live the lives they want to live. You dont get to bash that - whatever your experience with your ex girlfriend may be.

 

[Dolby]

Perhaps I can make others weary of what the program really is about and open their eyes.

I wish someone had warned me that 3 months down the line, I wouldn't have a relationship again.

 

[semiautomatix]

lol! You are such a cynic

Thats what I said last week!

 

[superB]

Perhaps I can make others weary of what the program really is about and open their eyes.

I wish someone had warned me that 3 months down the line, I wouldn't have a relationship again.

its very common for people fresh into recovery to make NA their life for an amount of time. The transition from daily use to daily sobriety can be quite a shock to the system. Many addicts find solace in the rooms because people there get how the most mundane task can be overwhelming in early recovery. I also struggled with balancing real life with NA when I first started. I got into big **** socially because the relationships became quite sick and co-dependant. I stepped away when that happened and now do things my way with very little contact to NA in any way.

That however was a personal choice. Lots of people walk into NA, love it and stay there for years (personally I think thats a bit much but each to their own). By immediately bashing NA you run the risk of negatively affecting their recovery. If they feel they need the support of other addicts as they clean up then they should be given the opportunity to investigate that for themselves. I think for someone who hasnt actually participated in the programme to 'warn' others away from it is detrimental and uncalled for.

Let people make their own choices. Who knows? Maybe some people out there can seperate the good and bad parts of NA and only take from it that which they need. Do not paint all addicts with the same brush because you had a bad experience with your gf.

 

[Dolby]

its very common for people fresh into recovery to make NA their life for an amount of time. The transition from daily use to daily sobriety can be quite a shock to the system. Many addicts find solace in the rooms because people there get how the most mundane task can be overwhelming in early recovery..

Most people there are twisted and sexual predators. In the two meetings I have attended, all of the girls had been chatted up by guys wanting to get with them. Guys go there specifically to prey on the new, vulnerable girls. Sadly, you realise that most those girls fall for the guys and end up sleeping with 2 or 3 from the group because they think they guy cares.

Just btw? That's what happened to my girlfriend. It took only 3 months before 1 meeting became 2, and then 3. A few weeks later they had social evenings, coffee's dinner. Although we lived together, I saw her 3 times a week if I was lucky. Coming home from work started at 9pm ... then 10pm ... then 11pm. I was replaced by the NA fellowship. Slowly but surely it sucked her in.

Eventually I found out she was SMSing and chatting to one of the guys known for preying on the vulnerable girls. This was a pure mistake - as she deleted SMS's and phone records to make sure I wouldn't find out.

On Googling and reading the thousands of letters, I learnt my story isn't isolated at all. It just hurts that we got past the drug issue - but stumpled on the recovery issue.

Lots of people walk into NA, love it and stay there for years (personally I think thats a bit much but each to their own)

Actually, not so. Many, many more people walk into NA and end up leaving within a short while - possibly after a relapse. Do you have any idea how many of those plastic keyring milestones are actually issues?

They obviously have a stacks of 30, 60 and 90 days - but they need to start ordering as the milestone get's higher. Quite possibly because there actually aren't *that* many 1 year keyrings needed.

I think stats are 1% of all new members receiving 10 year coins and 0.5% getting the 15 years coin.

Check this out as well :

81% of the newcomers are gone within 30 days,
90% are gone in 3 months, and
95% are gone at the end of a year.

A program with such a high failure rate is not as amazing and fantstic as some like to make out.

 

[Dolby]

If they feel they need the support of other addicts as they clean up then they should be given the opportunity to investigate that for themselves. I think for someone who hasnt actually participated in the programme to 'warn' others away from it is detrimental and uncalled for.

How many do actually investigate it? Did you ever investigate the negatives and positives in the 10 years? By the time people decide to go to NA, they're alsready highly fragile and not in the correct mind set to investigate.

In my two meetings I could already pick up strange vibes and only a few weeks into NA was very weary of the goings on. But let's take my personal experience out of the equation as it was only 2 meetings.

Go read the letters of the thousands that have been and realised the same as me. Or if you're not happy with that site (you may think it biased), rather Google phrases such as 'NA' 'cult' and 'sex'. There are plenty of personal experiences you can read and hear from.

Let people make their own choices. Who knows? Maybe some people out there can seperate the good and bad parts of NA and only take from it that which they need.

In order for them to seperate, they need to understand there is good and bad. The newcomers aren't in that state of mind yet and wouldn't dream that anything could be wrong with this program.

 

[scotty777]

where do i start, I do paracetamol regularly, i did weed (the weed i did puts hairs on everything!), i did Acid 3 times, 1st time was amazing, opened my mind, 2nd time was interesting and pretty weird, 3rd time I had a bad trip, like i was seeing the walls bleed, my legs where melting into the floor and when i lay down i though the blanket was eating me (16 hours of this really messed me up). honestly, since i've stopped the drugs life has gotten easier and as each day passes i realise i don't need illegal drugs... however, because of my addictive nature, i couldn't simply stop weed, i took up smoking cig's instead... now looking back i realise that i'm just one of those people that get addicted to drugs and can't ever stop, i just thank god i didn't do Coke when it was offered

 

[Jewelbox]

Once a druggy, always a druggy!!

 

[superB]

Most people there are twisted and sexual predators. In the two meetings I have attended, all of the girls had been chatted up by guys wanting to get with them. Guys go there specifically to prey on the new, vulnerable girls. Sadly, you realise that most those girls fall for the guys and end up sleeping with 2 or 3 from the group because they think they guy cares.

I think it is incredibly presumptuous to say that the guys only go there to get laid. I know of many men in the programme who are have a good number of clean years to their name. They are happily married and lead balanced lives. As do the women. Is there going to be sleeping around? Of course! But it’s like that with any ‘community’. When people with common experiences and a unique level of understanding for the lives of ‘fellow members’ there will be attraction and intimacy. Is some of it about using and abusing? Yes! But it is no different to the drunk 3rd year student that sleeps with a 1st year , or the boss that sleeps with his secretary. Perceived power and knowledge is intoxicating to the newcomer / 1st year / subordinate. To vilify a fellowship because of the indiscretions that exist in EVERY walk of life is narrow minded and petty.

Just btw? That's what happened to my girlfriend. It took only 3 months before 1 meeting became 2, and then 3. A few weeks later they had social evenings, coffee's dinner. Although we lived together, I saw her 3 times a week if I was lucky. Coming home from work started at 9pm ... then 10pm ... then 11pm. I was replaced by the NA fellowship. Slowly but surely it sucked her in..

I know your girlfriend and I know how relationships work. There are 2 sides to every story and while I choose to NOT divulge your part in that particular situation let it be known that no party is ever without blame.

Eventually I found out she was SMSing and chatting to one of the guys known for preying on the vulnerable girls. This was a pure mistake - as she deleted SMS's and phone records to make sure I wouldn't find out.

There is no excuse for lying but before you bad mouth her behaviours and blame it on a global organisation that by default will be filled with sick people, should we once again examine your part in the whole thing? Is one person more to blame than the other? Sure, but as previously mentioned: it takes 2 people to screw up a relationship. What had happened in your relationship that your girlfriend felt she couldn’t even tell you about an sms or phonecall? The assumption is of course that there was something to hide but there is always the possibility that you did not foster an atmosphere of openness or acceptance.

On Googling and reading the thousands of letters, I learnt my story isn't isolated at all. It just hurts that we got past the drug issue - but stumpled on the recovery issue..

Cleaning up does not automatically change a person’s behaviour. It negates the necessity for theft or prostitution or any such extreme measures but learning to be honest again – well, that’s like teaching a injured person to walk again. There are many relationships that don’t make it through early recovery for the simple reason that the SO thinks that removing the drugs means that that person is somehow miraculously healed. In reality, learning how to re-socialise and reintegrate into productive society is probably harder than putting the drugs down. Addiction is not just the disease of more. It’s an entire set of behaviours. That stuff takes time to change.

Actually, not so. Many, many more people walk into NA and end up leaving within a short while - possibly after a relapse. Do you have any idea how many of those plastic keyring milestones are actually issues? .

That is not about the programme, that is about the disease. The recovery rates you speak of are not linked to NA participation or not. Those are the recovery rates of addiction. Has anybody said that NA is a fool proof programme? No. It is a way of giving addicts tools to use in recovery. Whether they choose to Implement those strategies cannot be dictated by anyone other than the addict in question. Of course there will be a more 30, 60 or 90 tags. Many addicts aren’t strong enough to clean up, or they don’t have the desire to. Like many non addicted people, addicts can be fickle. Or they may decide to clean up and 2 months into decide it’s not worth the hard work or even decide THEY are not worth it. Who are you to say that those who come in and out of the rooms leave because NA is a cult?

They obviously have a stacks of 30, 60 and 90 days - but they need to start ordering as the milestone get's higher. Quite possibly because there actually aren't *that* many 1 year keyrings needed..

Many addicts don’t live long enough to make it past a few years. Will addicts relapse? Yes. It’s part of the disease. Once again, blaming that on NA is foolish and short sighted.

I think stats are 1% of all new members receiving 10 year coins and 0.5% getting the 15 years coin.

Check this out as well :

81% of the newcomers are gone within 30 days,
90% are gone in 3 months, and
95% are gone at the end of a year. .

Because they cant clean up for their own reasons – not because NA has somehow failed them. NA is not there to force people to live a certain way. It’s just there to support the process.

A program with such a high failure rate is not as amazing and fantstic as some like to make out.

Its not a the programme that has failed. It’s the addict. NA is not a pill you can take to fix you. The ADDICT has to work the programme in order for the programme to work. Is that such a complex thing to understand? If you want to blame anybody, blame the people. It’s their humanity that causes the sleeping around and relapsing etc. If they were healthy people they wouldn’t be there to begin with!

How many do actually investigate it? Did you ever investigate the negatives and positives in the 10 years? By the time people decide to go to NA, they're alsready highly fragile and not in the correct mind set to investigate.

Wow! What a bizarre assumption! Just because we’re addicts doesn’t mean we’re stupid or oblivious!

In my two meetings I could already pick up strange vibes and only a few weeks into NA was very weary of the goings on. But let's take my personal experience out of the equation as it was only 2 meetings.

As a visitor who has no real grasp of the process of the meetings or that those ‘slutty girls’ and ‘pervy men’ are just as common place at your local pub as they are in NA perhaps it is best that you chose to leave your personal experience out of that issue.

Go read the letters of the thousands that have been and realised the same as me. Or if you're not happy with that site (you may think it biased), rather Google phrases such as 'NA' 'cult' and 'sex'. There are plenty of personal experiences you can read and hear from.

Have you googled any pro NA stuff? It’s the internet. If you look hard enough you’ll find something that supports almost anything. I mean hell, look at scientologists! (j/k I have nothing against scientologists)

In order for them to seperate, they need to understand there is good and bad. The newcomers aren't in that state of mind yet and wouldn't dream that anything could be wrong with this program

Wow. Again. The assumption that a newcomer is too stupid to think for themselves. Many newcomers are adults of very varied ages, social standing and education levels. Are some still addled by drugs? Of course! Will they make their own choices once their minds clear? Probably. Nobody forces you to stay in the programme. When I walked away from the programme I walked away. Nobody chased me down and dragged me back. Staying or going was my choice. Cant you just respect that of those who chose to stay?

 

[Dolby]

Is there going to be sleeping around? Of course! But it’s like that with any ‘community’. When people with common experiences and a unique level of understanding for the lives of ‘fellow members’ there will be attraction and intimacy. Is some of it about using and abusing? Yes!

I think you're down playing the whole sexual thing. It's a problem - and a large problem at that. Speak to anyone that remotely knows anything of the 'fellowship' and they'll admit it goes on very frequently. Even the NA forums (with NA members) speak of it.

But let's speak about NA and other commuinites. There are three differences between NA and other communities :

* As you pointed out, it's filled with sick people, compared to an average community with a finer balance of people

* Another difference between NA and other communities is that the ratio of people sleeeping around in a given community. The meetings I've attended have had 20-30 people - of which around about 40% have slept/are sleeping around around. Keep in mind this is what I know from hearing their own confessions and gossip around the fellowship. Hell ... even the the NA master of that particular group has been sleeping around with every girl and admitting he took advantage. I'm also aware he continues - almost a decade later. It's not great letting your girlfriend go to these groups knowing what is happening - regardless if she articipates or not.

* The third difference is that they have to go out of there way to stop sleeping/slutting around (we strictly frowm upon 13th stepping). I haven't seen many other commuinties having to stipulate 'please do not have sex with other members'. That alone should show you it's a larger problem than what you make out.

I know your girlfriend and I know how relationships work. There are 2 sides to every story and while I choose to NOT divulge your part in that particular situation let it be known that no party is ever without blame.

Perhaps you know who she is *shrug* Perhaps you've only heard her story or only choose to see her story? Fact is when I picked it up only weeks later, I mentioned all my fears. Many times. Unfortunatley for me, they fell on deaf ears. Am I bitter about NA backtracking my life by 3 years? Yes.

There is no excuse for lying but before you bad mouth her behaviours and blame it on a global organisation that by default will be filled with sick people, should we once again examine your part in the whole thing?

It sounds like you defending lying.

There are many relationships that don’t make it through early recovery for the simple reason that the SO thinks that removing the drugs means that that person is somehow miraculously healed

Another reason for very few relationships making it through recovery is because NA instructs to leave an old life behind. Recovery must be placed above all else in life, including friends and family. No new relationships (of substance) should be formed for 12 months after recovery either - barring the slutting around of course.

SO's - believe it or not - don't believe everything is healed now that drugs are gone. I supported and went out my way - even when we weren't together.

As a visitor who has no real grasp of the process of the meetings or that those ‘slutty girls’ and ‘pervy men’ are just as common place at your local pub as they are in NA perhaps it is best that you chose to leave your personal experience out of that issue.!

I told you earlier that if you don't like my 'personal experience', you are more than welcome to read any number of thousands on that site? Or Google yourself?

Have you googled any pro NA stuff?

I have. Not alot really, apart from the marketing they print (and sell) in their books. Also the odd letter or two - but nothing nearly as solid as the cons of it. But this is the best I've across http://www.geocities.com/agent.green/ and http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-whats_good.html

You're more than welcome to read up.

Wow. Again. The assumption that a newcomer is too stupid to think for themselves. Many newcomers are adults of very varied ages, social standing and education levels.

I never said they were stupid? But going through withdrawals, cravings, seeking that high, mood swings and irrational behaviour etc doesn't always help with making the correct choices in life. If they made the correct choices in life, they may not actually be there to begin with? Even NA recommends no life changing situations in a year!

 

[Dolby]

Basically addicts can decide where they want to go and what they wish to do. But very, very few actually know the cons and know that there are cons.

Just Google 'NA' or 'narcotics anonymous' and everything sounds hunky dory - but the majority of the positive **** you find on the internet is straight from their printed book (on sale now, btw!)

I've known people that have been in/out for many years (remember that high faiulre rate, eh) and only now realised there may be cons involved.


I think I'm entiteled to warn and pass that link around. Who knows, my save many heart aches in future.

 

[noxibox]

You do know NA is a load of bull**** - right?

It is overhyped and their success rate is no better than for people quitting on their own. However, the same is true of other rehabilitation methods. Different things work for different people.

Yeah I know. I threw myself into it for a good many months after rehab but at the end of the day it was me who decided to use again and then clean up again. All the meetings, the social dramas and the phonecalls to my sponsor didnt help one bit. Plus, them addicts are crazy yo </end fake gangster accent> It may work for some but it's not for me. Not anymore...

Someone only quits when they want to quit. The various Anonymous organisations tend to get a lot of positive press and there seems to be a general belief that they're great and really successful at helping people stop, but it is simply not true.

ok yes, theres a difference between drug addict and recreational drug user.

No there is a big difference between a drug abuser and a drug user. Addiction does not automatically equal abuse.

Drug addicts carry the connotation of dirty people who will steal, rob and damage what ever they can to get high.

That's a drug abuser.

Most of us arent like that, and even some drug addicts would never steal or hurt a fly. Its morals and upbringing that make a person do what they do. And you find the people who commit crime to help their addictions never had a good upbringing, good family life or good morals.

I don't agree. People turn out differently even with almost the same upbringing. Some people lose sight of right and wrong more easily than others. I've known people who were perfectly nice when not high, but thoroughly mean when high on alcohol.

we are all good, kind hearted, loving caring people.... who like to get high thats all

It's true, most drug users are not different. We are fed ridiculous stereotypes. All that is needed is to imagine you're being told about alcohol users - use alcohol -> become addict -> lie, steal and kill -> die in gutter.

 

[noxibox]

And then there are those who say they do not "really do it anymore". What sort of answer is that? You either use drugs or you don't. It is a YES or NO issue.

It's true. What amuses me is how everyone is pretending their drugs are OK. The alcies will tell us they'd never do drugs. The cokeheads would never touch the evil meth. The dope smokers don't touch the heavy stuff. The acidheads won't go near coke. You're all getting high, you're all doing drugs.

Once a druggy, always a druggy!!

Well it's fine company. Most adults in the Western world are druggies.

and some Ice(makes me [-]you[/-] so agro!),

Corrected. That's your personal response.

SDD - don't go down that road! Its too unpredictable!

Just like life then.

I presume you stay away from alcohol too. Lots of unpleasant people in the alcohol scene.

Heroin is the only drug i know that will hook 4/5 users off the bat

You have evidence to back that up?

Agreed heroin is definitely not recreational... neither is Tik, both are crazy addictive...

Same question.

Problem is, stable people become headcases from drugs.

If you really believe that applies to the majority, then you must be smoking some serious plastic.

thing with Heroin and Speed in this case, is that the drug is soo strong and has such an effect on you, when it wears off the user is more likely to take some more to keep the high going. Heroin takes hold of you like nething, and the come down is soo bad, that person will probably take a bit more to ease it. This turns into a vicious circle and the user thus becomes addicted and a regular user. Speed is exactly the same.

Drivel.

that the drug is soo strong and has such an effect on you, when it wears off the user is more likely to take some more to keep the high going

Well, then caffeine certainly qualifies. There's a massive caffeine epidemic out there. A ticking time bomb.

thats a bit of a useless term then, i could be instantly addicted to a ride in a park, the new cinemas at monte, a bar one.....

It is exactly like that. Somebody enjoys something, they want to do it again. Drugs are not instantly addictive in any other way.

... with the addition of chemicals, surely ?

If there are no chemicals they aren't going to do much.

Agree, today's multitude of drugs are freaking hectic ... they all seem to be manipulated to intensify the high ...

Highly doubtful.

 

[sdd]

Where do you guys get time to post such cool replies ...mine is usually 2-3 lines long.

 

[Flanders]

Weed 'n' shrooms, man. Weed 'n' shrooms.

At new years we were singing 'Are we shroomin'......or are we ganga'd?..."

But yea...only on rare(ish) occasions these days.

 

[Keeper]

Once a druggy, always a druggy!!

Stuff You!

this is how I felt, and I pretty much feel the same way now

Chappies "Did you Know" #723 - Alcohol and smoking are also considered drugs.

 

[N1sh]

Just smoke some weed and make some space cakes now and then, but nothing more than that

 

[brixton tower]

Brixton you smoke cigi's BTW?

Nah, don't smoke cigarettes...ganja is absolutely recreational...I mean, I haven't toked for more than a year and I feel totally fine- I guess I can't get addicted to weed but what I like more than the high is the taste of stanky stank. Anyone smoking pot should have a girlfriend/partner who can appreciate it coz I can just imagine what it must be like if you partner smokes and you don't.

I'd give the other stuff like nose candy, tik, e, heroine a massive miss...I love my job and my family too much to even dabble in hard drugs.