DK spec's & other

[Pitbull]

Heya.

Right, so I have been reading up a whole of 10 minutes and I can't believe that the influx of DK's didn;t take the time to read one simple post on the net. I just lost the bloody link now ffs.

DK's are NOT Tanks in the true sense of the word.

There is a very nice article I'm trying to find now lost in all these i viewed in the last few minutes.

Blizzard listened to the tanks crying "They are casters" "Magic damage" and and and. The DK is to be the Person taking out the casters and also provide brilliant DPS when there is no casters.

Now think about it. They have the grip talent - Remember casters always stay clear of the fight standing a nice distance away ? This is what it is for.
The Purple Bubble they do that shields magic damage....

See where I'm going with this ?

Now I forsee a DK's roll in a raid or an instance as being the 3rd tank Caster tank/Killer almost like a 2nd OT. Now this is the single most destructive thing that has got me so annoyed with the people playing them. They seem to think they can tank and kill everything instead of just sticking to what the class is built for.

I can see a DK being a Boss tank if the boss is a caster, Killing caster trash without anyone of the raid/instance having to worry about the casters.

I'm planning on going Full frost for Dual Wielding Nice high DPS and the Casters will be my baby

http://deathknight.info/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=809.0

Caster Tanking: It is Blizzard's stated intention that DKs should excel at caster tanking, and every tree has worthwhile talents for mitigating magical damage. For caster tanking, DK > Warrior > Pally > Druid

 

[Petruz]

Heya.

Right, so I have been reading up a whole of 10 minutes and I can't believe that the influx of DK's didn;t take the time to read one simple post on the net. I just lost the bloody link now ffs.

DK's are NOT Tanks in the true sense of the word.

There is a very nice article I'm trying to find now lost in all these i viewed in the last few minutes.

Blizzard listened to the tanks crying "They are casters" "Magic damage" and and and. The DK is to be the Person taking out the casters and also provide brilliant DPS when there is no casters.

Now think about it. They have the grip talent - Remember casters always stay clear of the fight standing a nice distance away ? This is what it is for.
The Purple Bubble they do that shields magic damage....

See where I'm going with this ?

Now I forsee a DK's roll in a raid or an instance as being the 3rd tank Caster tank/Killer almost like a 2nd OT. Now this is the single most destructive thing that has got me so annoyed with the people playing them. They seem to think they can tank and kill everything instead of just sticking to what the class is built for.

I can see a DK being a Boss tank if the boss is a caster, Killing caster trash without anyone of the raid/instance having to worry about the casters.

I'm planning on going Full frost for Dual Wielding Nice high DPS and the Casters will be my baby

/Will post the link to the article here

Dk tank fine with Blood spec and grind none stop like hunter with Blood spec no healing no first aid required.
Frost spec more your tanking spec but i tank just fine with blood spec

Would recommend Blood spec for first few lvles cause you WILL have hard time finding a healer cause youll be doing instances like ramps and BF with DKs only and if theres no Blood spec DKs your gonne have HARD time.
But as soon as you hit lvl 65 instances the DK will be needing a healer unless they wana do the instance REALLY slow.

Unholy is more the DPS spec but other 2 specs still dps very well.
Unholy feels like a Mellee hunter class cause you got permanent zombie and if you die you become one 2.

 

[Pitbull]

Dk tank fine with Blood spec and grind none stop like hunter with Blood spec no healing no first aid required.
Frost spec more your tanking spec but i tank just fine with blood spec

Would recommend Blood spec for first few lvles cause you WILL have hard time finding a healer cause youll be doing instances like ramps and BF with DKs only and if theres no Blood spec DKs your gonne have HARD time.
But as soon as you hit lvl 65 instances the DK will be needing a healer unless they wana do the instance REALLY slow.

Unholy is more the DPS spec but other 2 specs still dps very well.
Unholy feels like a Mellee hunter class cause you got permanent zombie and if you die you become one 2.

Now this is the reason I hate some DK players so much. Leave the tanking to the tanks The DK was not designed to be a MT.

I'm going Frost (Dual Wield). The highest DPS spec for a DK. And best at tanking casters. I've been up till 2am this morning researching this class once I realized what it is capable off. If one plays the class for what it was designed for then you can do nothing but succeed at it

 

[Oculate]

Dk tank fine with Blood spec as an offtank

fixed.

Frost/Unholy are the best tank specs. Unholy thanks to its Bone shield, and Frost thanks to its "oh shi-" buttons. EJ is still heavy in the theorycrafting on Deathknights.

Theres a lot of information, but heres the link

http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t36303-dps_compendium/

Point 8 would probably be the best

 

[Pitbull]

fixed.

Frost/Unholy are the best tank specs. Unholy thanks to its Bone shield, and Frost thanks to its "oh shi-" buttons. EJ is still heavy in the theorycrafting on Deathknights.

Theres a lot of information, but heres the link

http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t36303-dps_compendium/

Point 8 would probably be the best

Yipee, more reading Thanx Optioncarduser

I have a very good feeling about this DK of mine. But who knows, I might be dissapointed later on. I agree fully that the caster side of instances and Bosses have been neglected before WoTLK. I would love to fill the roll

Can't wait

 

[Oculate]

Now this is the reason I hate some DK players so much. Leave the tanking to the tanks The DK was not designed to be a MT.

Lol, I ran UK last night with a 76 warrior (i'm 72), he showed me how well his threat was, and then i went along and peeled the mob straight off him Dont underestimate our tanking abilities

We can tank just as well with the right rotation (Death grip, D&D, even that taunt ability (i forget its name) is valuable when taking mobs off the healer)

 

[Pitbull]

Lol, I ran UK last night with a 76 warrior (i'm 72), he showed me how well his threat was, and then i went along and peeled the mob straight off him

I can forsee that being a problem

They are high threat generating machines as it is part of their mechanics. Same with Enchancement Shamans as they are/where Hybrid tanks. I think the DK will fill the spot where Shamans failed. Shamans had no real abilities to cater for the Casters, sure we could do it okish but the DK has all the anticasting abillities to make them smoking hot against casters

Look at the Magic shield thing mentioned above. That helps not just the DK but the raid/group as a whole. And the fact that they can generate health while fighting makes them able to solo Trash Caster mobs without the need of to much/if any healing.

 

[zanyboy]

Well using a taunt to get a mob of a tank proves nadda. Pally tanks can do exactly the same, just the way a warrior can take it off you if you are the tank.

That is not keeping or losing aggro...pfft. If you want to take the mob you can

 

[Oculate]

I can forsee that being a problem

They are high threat generating machines as it is part of their mechanics. Same with Enchancement Shamans as they are/where Hybrid tanks. I think the DK will fill the spot where Shamans failed. Shamans had no real abilities to cater for the Casters, sure we could do it okish but the DK has all the anticasting abillities to make them smoking hot against casters

Look at the Magic shield thing mentioned above. That helps not just the DK but the raid/group as a whole. And the fact that they can generate health while fighting makes them able to solo Trash Caster mobs without the need of to much/if any healing.

Shamans aren't tanks. Despite what you want, they won't be. The anti magic shield is cool, reminds me of the KJ fight and Death Strike is awesome (Got a 2.3k heal off while solo'ing elites in HF)

 

[Oculate]

Well using a taunt to get a mob of a tank proves nadda. Pally tanks can do exactly the same, just the way a warrior can take it off you if you are the tank.

That is not keeping or losing aggro...pfft. If you want to take the mob you can

Erm, isnt that the tanks job? To hold aggro? Don't get upset when the new kids on the block start tanking as effectively as the 'orginal' tanks

 

[Skurm]

I for one approve of all these dk tanks. More room for proper dps.

 

[TheShogun]

Staalbal, you've got a lot of misconceptions about DK's at the moment.

Currently, Unholy or Blood are the top DPS specs.
Blood has better survival and single target dps but Unholy has better AoE.

Frost and Unholy are the 2 best tanking specs. Frost has better mitigation and "o ****" buttons and Unholy has excellent anti-caster mechanics with some good mitigation talents like Bone Shield.
Due to the inner CD on Bone Shield, Frost is the slightly better tanking spec until you reach a certain mitigation level.

Dual Wielding Frost is a very experimental build at this point. It requires spec'ing 20+ points into Blood, 25+ into Frost and the remainder into Unholy.
It is refered to as Tri-spec because of this.
It's benefit as a Tanking spec is one of the currently hotly debated topics as it has several key issues.
Hit cap on DW is a lot higher then 2 Hander so a Tri-spec DK will miss a lot more, which can be a problem for a tank.
Also, if you're hitting more often and not expertise capped, then bosses will Parry more often which will allow them to hit more often.

DK's are on a par with the other 3 tanking classes at the moment.
We have some very good Anti-caster abilities but we can tank Physical bosses just as well with the correct spec and gear.

I almost forgot, the most important thing that every single person needs to know about DK tanks is this:
We require setup time.

If we pull a group, you really need to wait for us to use 2 or 3 abilities before we'll have the group under control.
We have no instant cast group aggro abilities apart from DnD and that requires placement.

 

[Petruz]

Well using a taunt to get a mob of a tank proves nadda. Pally tanks can do exactly the same, just the way a warrior can take it off you if you are the tank.

That is not keeping or losing aggro...pfft. If you want to take the mob you can

Yeah have to agree with this but what the hell was his DK doing pulling off mobs from the tank?
If your not the tank dont go frost presence unless you want to tank use Blood it reduces your threat and you can go ahead and dps hard.

And Full unholy is a crappy tank believe me.

 

[Pitbull]

I for one approve of all these dk tanks. More room for proper dps.

hehe,

That is just the thing. They want to be pure DPS but fail. They want to be Main tanks they do okish but in my experience they fail at that too. I'm playing mine like my Shaman. I'm there to provide OK DPS, I'm not there to top the damage meter, it can be done for a few seconds and then I will grab aggro and cause the healer to have to heal more people, if something goes wrong the healer is OOM and we will wipe.

I think my roll will be as follow:

1. If there is a caster mob, Grip and tank/kill it (Shielding the MT and the raid/group from the Magic damage.
2. Provide much needed group/raid buffs
3. Be DPS when needed and manage aggro.

I will not top the Damage Meter but I will be a support class for the rest of the raid/group. Thus making the instances/Heroics/Raids easier for all and give the DicK class the name I think they deserve. To many fools have killed the DK class off from any chance of ever being viable in any phase of the game.

Hopefully I can make a success of the DicK and have fun doing so.

I'll be the support player (used to it since I have been playing a Shaman)

 

[Petruz]

hehe,

That is just the thing. They want to be pure DPS but fail. They want to be Main tanks they do okish but in my experience they fail at that too. I'm playing mine like my Shaman. I'm there to provide OK DPS, I'm not there to top the damage meter, it can be done for a few seconds and then I will grab aggro and cause the healer to have to heal more people, if something goes wrong the healer is OOM and we will wipe.

I think my roll will be as follow:

1. If there is a caster mob, Grip and tank/kill it (Shielding the MT and the raid/group from the Magic damage.
2. Provide much needed group/raid buffs
3. Be DPS when needed and manage aggro.

I will not top the Damage Meter but I will be a support class for the rest of the raid/group. Thus making the instances/Heroics/Raids easier for all and give the DicK class the name I think they deserve. To many fools have killed the DK class off from any chance of ever being viable in any phase of the game.

Hopefully I can make a success of the DicK and have fun doing so.

I'll be the support player (used to it since I have been playing a Shaman)

I hate DK there i said it they make GOOD tank if a person THAT KNOWS and have played other tank classes pre WOTLK use them rigth.

You got Alot of AOE tanking here even more depending on your spec if you play DK rigth he can almost AOE tank like a pala.

You apply 2 deseases to 1 target them spread them with one abilitie to others that means instant dot aoe dmg on all mobs and you got death & decay throw it on the groud nice aoe agro.Frost got even more aoe goodies.

DK is the reason i am not speccing Feral tank cause feral almost got NOTHIN in WOTLK the 3 moves they got all have 5min or 3min cd.
Compared to DK feral tanks can pack up and go home.
BLizzard may aswell delete the spec.

 

[Pitbull]

Staalbal, you've got a lot of misconceptions about DK's at the moment.

Currently, Unholy or Blood are the top DPS specs.
Blood has better survival and single target dps but Unholy has better AoE.

Frost and Unholy are the 2 best tanking specs. Frost has better mitigation and "o ****" buttons and Unholy has excellent anti-caster mechanics with some good mitigation talents like Bone Shield.
Due to the inner CD on Bone Shield, Frost is the slightly better tanking spec until you reach a certain mitigation level.

Dual Wielding Frost is a very experimental build at this point. It requires spec'ing 20+ points into Blood, 25+ into Frost and the remainder into Unholy.
It is refered to as Tri-spec because of this.
It's benefit as a Tanking spec is one of the currently hotly debated topics as it has several key issues.
Hit cap on DW is a lot higher then 2 Hander so a Tri-spec DK will miss a lot more, which can be a problem for a tank.
Also, if you're hitting more often and not expertise capped, then bosses will Parry more often which will allow them to hit more often.

DK's are on a par with the other 3 tanking classes at the moment.
We have some very good Anti-caster abilities but we can tank Physical bosses just as well with the correct spec and gear.

I almost forgot, the most important thing that every single person needs to know about DK tanks is this:
We require setup time.

If we pull a group, you really need to wait for us to use 2 or 3 abilities before we'll have the group under control.
We have no instant cast group aggro abilities apart from DnD and that requires placement.

I think I'm seeing the class for what it was built to be. Blizzard will nerf DicK's that I can assure you. As the quote from Blizzcon " DicK's are the cater tank class" This was their aim and they overshot it a bit. They will bring it inline with what their main aim was.

I'm going to play it as such. When the nerf's hit I will be the one sitting in laughing at all the QQ'q regarding it. I might be underplaying my char if that is the case, I will however be playing the group game and having fun doing so.

There is a reason DicK's are hated so much today in every aspect and that is based on exactly what you posted above.

Like I said I might be wrong about this but I feel this will provide me and the group I'll be in from time to time with a better perception of DicK's and maybe one day the word DicK's will be replaced with something else

But we'll have to wait and see

 

[Voicysaurous]

Some good tips you boys have there. I agree with Kaalbal on reading up. Just a few minutes on EJ and I completely changed the way I played.

I'm decided to focus on my rogue going to 80 since i hit 72 last night as well as my BT 130 quests achievement. So it's off to Howling Fjord for me!

I'll still jam my lvl 60 DK whenever rogue is out of rest XP.

Will it be possible for the more experienced DK's to link their talent trees for us?

 

[Petruz]

Staalbal, you've got a lot of misconceptions about DK's at the moment.

Currently, Unholy or Blood are the top DPS specs.
Blood has better survival and single target dps but Unholy has better AoE.

Frost and Unholy are the 2 best tanking specs. Frost has better mitigation and "o ****" buttons and Unholy has excellent anti-caster mechanics with some good mitigation talents like Bone Shield.
Due to the inner CD on Bone Shield, Frost is the slightly better tanking spec until you reach a certain mitigation level.

Dual Wielding Frost is a very experimental build at this point. It requires spec'ing 20+ points into Blood, 25+ into Frost and the remainder into Unholy.
It is refered to as Tri-spec because of this.
It's benefit as a Tanking spec is one of the currently hotly debated topics as it has several key issues.
Hit cap on DW is a lot higher then 2 Hander so a Tri-spec DK will miss a lot more, which can be a problem for a tank.
Also, if you're hitting more often and not expertise capped, then bosses will Parry more often which will allow them to hit more often.

DK's are on a par with the other 3 tanking classes at the moment.
We have some very good Anti-caster abilities but we can tank Physical bosses just as well with the correct spec and gear.

I almost forgot, the most important thing that every single person needs to know about DK tanks is this:
We require setup time.

If we pull a group, you really need to wait for us to use 2 or 3 abilities before we'll have the group under control.
We have no instant cast group aggro abilities apart from DnD and that requires placement.

You just need to apply your deseases and make sure to use Death & decay and your set with agro this is by FAR the easiest tank clas i have played yet but i never played pala but compared to druid and warior even my little sister can hold agro on 12 mobs with this class.

 

[Pitbull]

I hate DK there i said it they make GOOD tank if a person THAT KNOWS and have played other tank classes pre WOTLK use them rigth.

You got Alot of AOE tanking here even more depending on your spec if you play DK rigth he can almost AOE tank like a pala.

You apply 2 deseases to 1 target them spread them with one abilitie to others that means instant dot aoe dmg on all mobs and you got death & decay throw it on the groud nice aoe agro.Frost got even more aoe goodies.

DK is the reason i am not speccing Feral tank cause feral almost got NOTHIN in WOTLK the 3 moves they got all have 5min or 3min cd.
Compared to DK feral tanks can pack up and go home.
BLizzard may aswell delete the spec.

Now this is the problem right there. I for one and I know a whole guild of people who are saying the same. Sure this might not be the feeling of even 1% of the realm but it is a full 1% of 1% that feels that way. The ones I know of ofc.

If there is an instance we want a Warrior/Pala tank, Druid if need be. We want a Druid/Pala/Priest healer. We want Rogue, Mage, Lock DPS. We want Shaman/Pala/Spriest/Druid Support/Buffs.

If there is a spot open for DPS sure, we'll take a DicK. If there is space for a Support class, sure we'll take a DicK. That is the problem, the DicK only has room when there is space. This is neglecting what the DicK is good at.

They are not tanks, they can tank but they are not tanks period.
They can DPS very good, but they are not Rogues/Mages/Locks (of which everyone of the above brings their own CC)
They are a support class like a Shaman/Druid/Pala but I would like to argue that the three mentioned above brings more to the group/raid than the DicK.

Unless the DicK is played right.

Again as I have said, I forsee some changes going forward. I might be very wrong or correct. It's a all or bust gamble, but I'm pretty sure the DicK's will be brought in on PAR to do what Blizzard wanted them to do. They whole DicK thing will be sorted out once the majority of the people have been playing with them for a while and Blizzard feels that players had their fun and it's time to bring on the changes.

Here is to hoping I'm right

 

[Pitbull]

You just need to apply your deseases and make sure to use Death & decay and your set with agro this is by FAR the easiest tank clas i have played yet but i never played pala but compared to druid and warior even my little sister can hold agro on 12 mobs with this class.

Then you didn't have the correct DPS. I have pulled aggro off DicK's with my Rogue and my Shaman with ease I can however not do it so easly with a Pala. Pala is by far the best AoE tank in game hands down. They are Prob arguably the Best tanks in game with Warriors second and Druids 3rd.

Being 4th rated at a set function is setting you up for disaster