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DK Tank Help
- Thread starter Fayera
- Start date
Im still desiding if I wanna have my off-spec tanking for Raid bosses or DPS. So far tanking is going gr8 with the build you gave thanks wheunis, I just took the increase in rune and droped the one that makes your dmg more when the enemy is below 35% HP as they die so fast with the dps you get these days ^_^
The beauty about the Death Knights ability to tank is that you have 3 trees available to you to choose from and each with their own playstyle. You said it was a toss up between Blood and Frost so the most important difference you need to know about the 2 trees is that Blood follows a set rotation and Frost doesn't.
There is no "best" tanking tree. There are better suited specs for the different encounters but what you choose is purely about personal preference and being comfortable with the tree.
There is no "best" tanking tree. There are better suited specs for the different encounters but what you choose is purely about personal preference and being comfortable with the tree.
Don't know where you got that data from, but simply stating that something is the worst... you'll have to do a touch better than that (some proof).
To add though, my DK does better atm in ICC than my neighbor, the friendly feral Druid.
If you're having problems yourself, that does not make it the worst in the game.
Stagger your cooldowns, and you will come out fresh and bright-eyed every time.
To add though, my DK does better atm in ICC than my neighbor, the friendly feral Druid.
If you're having problems yourself, that does not make it the worst in the game.
Stagger your cooldowns, and you will come out fresh and bright-eyed every time.
Gtx Gaming
Gtx Gaming
a dk tank is just as good as the player it is ,playing it. I easly out tank a feral druid also, just like yesternight our druid died allot on princes, then i had to tank them both, which actually did pretty easy without dieing once 
(25 man)
note, unbreakable Armour is the worst tanking cd ever atm.
Tacnically there is a best tanking tree,considering cooldowns.
Blood= vamp blood+ will of nercoposis, which did save my life allot before.
Frost= unbreakable armour , **** as hell( read ej forums)
Unholy= magic zone and bone shield, bone shield goes off pretty quick at fights at festergut,magic zone can be usefull in some fights.
skurm dks pretty much have the same stam, only guys that have more is pallys and druids.
(25 man)note, unbreakable Armour is the worst tanking cd ever atm.
Tacnically there is a best tanking tree,considering cooldowns.
Blood= vamp blood+ will of nercoposis, which did save my life allot before.
Frost= unbreakable armour , **** as hell( read ej forums)
Unholy= magic zone and bone shield, bone shield goes off pretty quick at fights at festergut,magic zone can be usefull in some fights.
skurm dks pretty much have the same stam, only guys that have more is pallys and druids.
Gtx Gaming
Gtx Gaming
lol then ur dps spec aint right blood do some decent dps in tank spec gear , normally around 2k ++
blood do some decent dps in tank spec gear , normally around 2k ++a dk tank is just as good as the player it is ,playing it. I easly out tank a feral druid also, just like yesternight our druid died allot on princes, then i had to tank them both, which actually did pretty easy without dieing once
note, unbreakable Armour is the worst tanking cd ever atm.
Tacnically there is a best tanking tree,considering cooldowns.
Blood= vamp blood+ will of nercoposis, which did save my life allot before.
Frost= unbreakable armour , **** as hell( read ej forums)
Unholy= magic zone and bone shield, bone shield goes off pretty quick at fights at festergut,magic zone can be usefull in some fights.
skurm dks pretty much have the same stam, only guys that have more is pallys and druids.
Just a couple things. Frost has Improved Frost Presence which reduces damge taken by a further 2%, which is solid passive mitigation, and Frigid Dreadplate which increases the chance for an enemy to miss you by an additional 3%, which is solid passive avoidance. Also, Unbreakable Armour isn't exactly an 'o crap' ability like VB is, it lasts quite a bit longer and is meant to be popped to smooth out damage taken. VB is superior as a short-term emergency button, certainly, but the two are meant to be used differently. Blood tanking is Different in style and execution to Frost. Blood uses a superior healthpool and selfhealing to stay up combined with a few good emergency buttons for spikes. It's REactive Tanking. Frost is meant to take less damage overall but has a lower hp pool and longer lasting cooldowns (longer IBF and UA is longer lasting) to try and reduce incoming damage over the long term. It's Proactive Tanking.
Both are good tanking specs. There are some fights where Frost is superior to Blood, and Vice versa. I switch between Frost and Blood depending on need and having tried an AoE-Blood spec now (Morbidity and Corpse Explosion and glyphed for DnD), I must say that Blood can do quite well at most tanking roles too if you spec appropriately and I've come to enjoy it as well, but Frost remains the best 'general' all-round spec. It's all about preference really.
Re the stam issue, I've read that paladin stam scaling is broken due to a large numbers of their talents being percentile based rather than flat increases. Seems warriors and DK's are at the bottom of the rung ito EH, but at least Warriors can compensate somewhat with shield block.
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Paladins do have exponentially growing HP due to some talents yeah.
But dont skip over DK in that department.
Frost presence and Veteran of Third War also boosts stamina by %.
But indeed, paladins do have it somewhat easier in the healthpool department.
Something odd i noted yesterday btw...
We had a shortage of 1 tank for our guild's 4th 10man ICC.
As nobody else was available, i opted my Paladin to tank if needed. It should be noted however that I am not really raid-ready with his tank gear.
Fully buffed and flasked I turned 45k stamina.
My defensive/avoidance sure wasn't what I'd like it to have been.
Anyway... correct me if I'm wrong...
When your unitframe displays damage taken, and it shows "Blocked"... that means that the damage was ENTIRELY mitigated by block? Same as when combat log says "... xxxx attacks. You Block"
http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Block#Block_value_modifiers (Second-last line)
If that is indeed the case, i gotta tell ya, that on Marrowgar, i quite frequently saw that happening. And I'm sure as hell not stacking no block value lol.
Really wish I had parses enabled for my Paladin but I never raid with him as tank so its never been a concern.
Don't know when, or if at all, I will get to tank with him again in ICC, so maybe someone can clear it up?
But dont skip over DK in that department.
Frost presence and Veteran of Third War also boosts stamina by %.
But indeed, paladins do have it somewhat easier in the healthpool department.
Something odd i noted yesterday btw...
We had a shortage of 1 tank for our guild's 4th 10man ICC.
As nobody else was available, i opted my Paladin to tank if needed. It should be noted however that I am not really raid-ready with his tank gear.
Fully buffed and flasked I turned 45k stamina.
My defensive/avoidance sure wasn't what I'd like it to have been.
Anyway... correct me if I'm wrong...
When your unitframe displays damage taken, and it shows "Blocked"... that means that the damage was ENTIRELY mitigated by block? Same as when combat log says "... xxxx attacks. You Block"
http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Block#Block_value_modifiers (Second-last line)
If that is indeed the case, i gotta tell ya, that on Marrowgar, i quite frequently saw that happening. And I'm sure as hell not stacking no block value lol.
Really wish I had parses enabled for my Paladin but I never raid with him as tank so its never been a concern.
Don't know when, or if at all, I will get to tank with him again in ICC, so maybe someone can clear it up?
Gtx Gaming
Gtx Gaming
if it is blocked it reduces the incoming amount of that hit ,depending on your block value.
yeah you can easly raid with a palidan in icc, holy shield gives crap load of extra block and agrent defender which is the best thing ever.
yeah you can easly raid with a palidan in icc, holy shield gives crap load of extra block and agrent defender which is the best thing ever.
I cant agree with the statement that DK's is the worst tank at the moment. Our guild's MT is a DK (switches beteen blood and frost as needed) and he does very well in ICC. The only fight where we made him DPS was on Saurfang, where he was switched with a paladin for the extra avoidance. Initially we had some issues healing through his marks (25 man) and we have been doing it with paladin tanks since then on every try. Im sure now that we have a bit more experience with the fight we can go back to him tanking it.
Agree with you fully.
DK's not the worst tanks by far.
Yes, a different gear setup will be needed on Saurfang, due to it being quite heavy on avoidance reliance. A bit crappy actually.
That being said, him gaining Runic power from hitting the DK a bit more than other tanks... meh.
I tanked him last week and for the first time we had problems since I tanked him with my DK.
Only reason that happened is because we tried to single tank it on 25 man (with my DK doing the dirty work of solo tank).
Still killed him.
If your dps can burn faster than he heals from hitting you... win.
I had to re-gem entirely for dodge and parry, swop out trinkets for avoidance over mitigation, etc.
Wasn't too bad really.
Where he normally got 2 marks off on us with 2 tanks in 25man, this time he threw out 3.
As long as adds NEVER hit ANYONE... you're golden with 1 tank, even if it is a DK or Druid.
I do find also... if luck favors you and he puts Mark of Fallen on the tank... sooooo awesome! Makes the fight hella easy. But it doesn't happen often.
On 10 man though, we wont be trying the solo tank strat very soon. Gave it 2 half-hearted shots on Saturday, dps just can't outdps that healing component (they were off by a mile tbh).
10 man the ability is just too much for current gear to outrun.
You don't seem to realise how broken block is atm, I never said you can't tank with a DK, just that any other class can tank it better (Druids only barely). Skill > Gear blah blah, give a top player 1 of each class and I can guarantee he wouldn't choose DK first or even second.
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You don't see the irony that in a progression fight, you dumped your DK Guild maintank for some arb paladin, and will only be going back to him now that you have experience with the encounter?
Seriously? You don't see the irony that your guild's main tank got benched for a paladin on a hard tanking fight?
Because the way I read it, your post just validated everything people have been saying about DK tanks. Sure they can do the job. But they can't do it as well as any other tank. And maybe your guild's DK MT does a fine job, but he'd probably be doing twice as good on a pally or warrior.
Maybe your healers have simply been carrying him through ICC.
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Agreed.
Stamstacking without meeting the requirements to even begin doing so... big problem atm.
I find it just sickening when i see tanks in ilvl 232~ gear already stamstacking every single damn thing.
Really guys, dead serious, not kidding around here.
Yes, at a certain point you really dont have much choice but to stamstack.
When is that point?
When your AVERAGE itemlevel passes 245.
Anything before that... I dont think it will go well for ya... even less so on a DK.
DK's MUST have MORE dodge and parry than other classes, end of story.
Its not a flaw.
Its there by design.
The design is NOT to throw +stam to the max at everything possible and pray for the best.
Dont ditch your MT simply because he's a DK.
The flaw in people's thinking when it comes to tanking with a DK is: "IM NOT A DK ALL TANKS ARE THE SAME ROFLCOPTER!"
Due to the fact that DK's don't have shields... parry-hasting can be (and is) a huge problem. You just cant afford to try get away with it as easily as a warrior or paladin could.
26 Expertise or gtfo.
You cant just whomp on the Frost Badge trinket and Ick's Thumb. You NEED more passive mitigating trinkets.
(I wish i was kidding) Black Heart or gtfo. There's also the hard-mode trinket from some Ulduar boss that is just pure awesome for DK's (Vezzax? Cant remember right now).
Yes, given, Ick's Thumb is awesome for that quick boost in your HP when two of your three interrupters for Lady Deathwhisper is down/running from ghosts/whatever.
Does it have ANY use whatsoever on Saurfang? Sure the dodge is good, but the use effect is utterly wasted. There are MUCH better trinkets for that fight.
Especially trinkets, any decent tank carries around 4-8 different trinkets, to match the particular situation.
I disagree, stamstacking for raiding is essential no matter what your average ilvl is, simple fact is that the bosses hit hard and you need EH to account for that. Saurfang ofc only being the only current exception due to the fight mechanics (100 hits = 1st mark).
As for 26 Exp or gtfo statement... wrong. The difference between 6 Exp and 26 Exp isn't that great at all, you realise 26 is the cap when attacking from behind? A tank's cap for it is around the 60+ mark so it's essentially the more the merrier although in the games current state, Exp is overrated by far too many people as is parry-haste.
With regards to the trinket, it is indeed from the General but it's from the normal mode 25man.
And finally, Ensidia have ditched their DK tank Zkygge who now is dps and used to tank just about every Ulduar hardmode encounter, surely that's saying something about the current state of DK tanks? The same goes for pretty much every top raiding guild.
PS: I'm only trying to educate people.
57 Expertise is Hard cap, fyi. Not 60+ as you so boldly claim.
Thanks for the {faulty} education.
Not even going to bother pointing out the rest to you, as it already seems clear you value exaggerations far more than facts.
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You couldn't even if you tried. Since the beginning of LK numbers have been flying around as to the hardcap and no solid proof has been given. There was a - left out after the 60+, search for expertise hardcap and you'll be amazed at the varied numbers which are returned from well known sites, please show me these 'facts'.
I guess you're so anal about being corrected that you can't even resort to decent conversation. Here you are telling people to 26 expertise or gtfo, you're clearly the one who shouldn't be posting anything here, DK tanks suck atm so just get over it.