Do you believe aliens exist?

[Mariner]

I’m not saying he’s right — just that the case hasn’t been neatly closed either. Sometimes the most interesting part is why a story with so many factual holes refuses to disappear.

Many blatant false stories refuse to go away because conspiracy theorists desperately want to believe them true and will deny facts to remain in their comfort zones.

 

[Jings]

Many blatant false stories refuse to go away because conspiracy theorists desperately want to believe them true and will deny facts to remain in their comfort zones.

That’s one way to see it, sure but human nature cuts both ways.


Some people are equally desperate for certainty, so they’ll deny any anomaly that doesn’t fit their framework.


For me it’s not about comfort zones; it’s about curiosity. If every unverified story is instantly labelled “conspiracy,” then we stop investigating and miss the few that might actually be true.


I’m happy to admit Lazar’s story has serious gaps — but calling everyone who keeps an open file on it a “conspiracy theorist” feels like throwing out the entire case instead of checking the evidence properly.

 

[Mariner]

I’m happy to admit Lazar’s story has serious gaps — but calling everyone who keeps an open file on it a “conspiracy theorist” feels like throwing out the entire case instead of checking the evidence properly.

Definition of Conspiracy Theory​

A conspiracy theory is an explanation for an event or situation that claims it results from a secret plot by powerful groups, often with sinister motives. These theories typically reject mainstream explanations and suggest that official narratives are misleading or false.

Characteristics of Conspiracy Theories​

Common Features​

• Secret Plot: They assert that a covert group is manipulating events.
• Lack of Evidence: The evidence supporting these theories is often weak or circumstantial.
• Resistance to Falsification: They are designed to withstand evidence against them, often using circular reasoning.
• Emotional Appeal: Belief in these theories can provide a sense of control or understanding in uncertain situations.

Psychological Factors​

Belief in conspiracy theories can be linked to psychological traits such as paranoia, narcissism, and cognitive biases. People may feel drawn to these theories during times of anxiety or uncertainty, as they offer simple explanations for complex events.

Examples of Conspiracy Theories​

Some notable conspiracy theories include:

• JFK Assassination: Various theories suggest that multiple parties were involved in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.
• Moon Landing Hoax: Claims that the Apollo moon landings were staged by NASA.
• COVID-19 Origins: Theories suggesting that the pandemic was planned or manipulated by governments or organizations.

Addressing Conspiracy Theories​

To counter conspiracy theories, it is essential to promote media literacy, encourage critical thinking, and provide transparent information from credible sources. Engaging with individuals who believe in these theories with empathy and understanding can also help reduce their prevalence.

Wikipedia George Mason University

 

[Jings]

Definition of Conspiracy Theory​

A conspiracy theory is an explanation for an event or situation that claims it results from a secret plot by powerful groups, often with sinister motives. These theories typically reject mainstream explanations and suggest that official narratives are misleading or false.

Characteristics of Conspiracy Theories​

Common Features​

• Secret Plot: They assert that a covert group is manipulating events.
• Lack of Evidence: The evidence supporting these theories is often weak or circumstantial.
• Resistance to Falsification: They are designed to withstand evidence against them, often using circular reasoning.
• Emotional Appeal: Belief in these theories can provide a sense of control or understanding in uncertain situations.

Psychological Factors​

Belief in conspiracy theories can be linked to psychological traits such as paranoia, narcissism, and cognitive biases. People may feel drawn to these theories during times of anxiety or uncertainty, as they offer simple explanations for complex events.

Examples of Conspiracy Theories​

Some notable conspiracy theories include:

• JFK Assassination: Various theories suggest that multiple parties were involved in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.
• Moon Landing Hoax: Claims that the Apollo moon landings were staged by NASA.
• COVID-19 Origins: Theories suggesting that the pandemic was planned or manipulated by governments or organizations.

Addressing Conspiracy Theories​

To counter conspiracy theories, it is essential to promote media literacy, encourage critical thinking, and provide transparent information from credible sources. Engaging with individuals who believe in these theories with empathy and understanding can also help reduce their prevalence.

Wikipedia George Mason University

That’s a solid textbook definition and it makes sense when the topic is a known hoax or a provably false plot.


But the word “conspiracy” itself simply means “to breathe together” — people acting in coordination, sometimes secretly. History’s full of genuine conspiracies that were denied until proven later (MK-Ultra, COINTELPRO, Iran-Contra, to name a few).


So the trick is separating the baseless theories from the real-world operations that once sounded like theories.


It’s good to stay skeptical, but it’s also worth remembering that skepticism cuts both ways — dismissing everything outright can be just as biased as believing everything. The truth usually lives somewhere in the messy middle.

 

[Mariner]

So the trick is separating the baseless theories from the real-world operations that once sounded like theories.

Let's first realise what a theory is. It appears that many incorrectly believe a theory is something that can be speculated about because it is unproven. Those who believe so are mistaken.

A theory is an hypothesis that has been proven and has entered the realm of fact. It is confirmed. There is no need to speculate whether it is real. It is. Its existence is supported by empirical evidence. Repeatable attempts to obtain the same result yield the same result. Peers who have attempted to disprove the hypothesis failed. This is known as peer review. It is now a theory and no longer an hypothesis.

UFOs, Aliens, Yeti, Bigfoot and time travel are all hypotheses until repeatable empirical evidence indicates they are real or exist and is presented. The Duck Billed Platypus was not accepted as real until one was offered for examination. The same goes for anything there is no empirical evidence for.

@wizardofid has tried to explain this in this thread as well.

 

[Herr der Verboten]

Definition of Conspiracy Theory​

A conspiracy theory is an explanation for an event or situation that claims it results from a secret plot by powerful groups, often with sinister motives. These theories typically reject mainstream explanations and suggest that official narratives are misleading or false.

Characteristics of Conspiracy Theories​

Common Features​

• Secret Plot: They assert that a covert group is manipulating events.
• Lack of Evidence: The evidence supporting these theories is often weak or circumstantial.
• Resistance to Falsification: They are designed to withstand evidence against them, often using circular reasoning.
• Emotional Appeal: Belief in these theories can provide a sense of control or understanding in uncertain situations.

Psychological Factors​

Belief in conspiracy theories can be linked to psychological traits such as paranoia, narcissism, and cognitive biases. People may feel drawn to these theories during times of anxiety or uncertainty, as they offer simple explanations for complex events.

Examples of Conspiracy Theories​

Some notable conspiracy theories include:

• JFK Assassination: Various theories suggest that multiple parties were involved in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.
• Moon Landing Hoax: Claims that the Apollo moon landings were staged by NASA.
• COVID-19 Origins: Theories suggesting that the pandemic was planned or manipulated by governments or organizations.

Addressing Conspiracy Theories​

To counter conspiracy theories, it is essential to promote media literacy, encourage critical thinking, and provide transparent information from credible sources. Engaging with individuals who believe in these theories with empathy and understanding can also help reduce their prevalence.

Wikipedia George Mason University

Is that you grok?

 

[Brian_G]

Let's first realise what a theory is. It appears that many incorrectly believe a theory is something that can be speculated about because it is unproven. Those who believe so are mistaken. /snip

Scientists' version of the word "theory" is v.different from the layman term. This forum is full of...... laymen.

/end of

But thanks for popping in again, Cosmik :- )

 

[Herr der Verboten]

is god an alien?

 

[Maurice Kitching]

Let's first realise what a theory is. It appears that many incorrectly believe a theory is something that can be speculated about because it is unproven. Those who believe so are mistaken.

A theory is an hypothesis that has been proven and has entered the realm of fact. It is confirmed. There is no need to speculate whether it is real. It is. Its existence is supported by empirical evidence. Repeatable attempts to obtain the same result yield the same result. Peers who have attempted to disprove the hypothesis failed. This is known as peer review. It is now a theory and no longer an hypothesis.

UFOs, Aliens, Yeti, Bigfoot and time travel are all hypotheses until repeatable empirical evidence indicates they are real or exist and is presented. The Duck Billed Platypus was not accepted as real until one was offered for examination. The same goes for anything there is no empirical evidence for.

@wizardofid has tried to explain this in this thread as well.

You may want to try the old Socratic Method on them.

You're conflating scientific and colloquial use of the same term. Even in scientific terms, a theory is based on observation as you said, but can be revised upon the presentation of new facts/observation/evidence.

 

[Brian_G]

is god an alien?

Small g versions always were, we're told. Some of them are supposed to have enslaved us.

 

[Mariner]

Scientists' version of the word "theory" is v.different from the layman term. This forum is full of...... laymen.

Full of laymen attempting to discuss science and failing due to not understanding what they are talking about. And when corrected, they refuse to acknowledge they are wrong, offering multiple excuses such as claiming to be laymen.

 

[Brian_G]

Full of laymen attempting to discuss science and failing due to not understanding what they are talking about. And when corrected, they refuse to acknowledge they are wrong, offering multiple excuses such as claiming to be laymen.

Science cannot easily prove anything here. If they are around, they're massively ahead of our puny science detection & determination methods.
Methinks they would then allow themselves to be widely known about when it suits them.

 

[Mariner]

You may want to try the old Socratic Method on them.

I'm not sure why you want me to try this?

You're conflating scientific and colloquial use of the same term.

Tho colloquial use is incorrect.

Even in scientific terms, a theory is based on observation as you said, but can be revised upon the presentation of new facts/observation/evidence.

Absolutely. The theory of evolution is a case in point. The basis of the theory remains, but new evidence is often unearthed that changes the details.

 

[Jings]

Let's first realise what a theory is. It appears that many incorrectly believe a theory is something that can be speculated about because it is unproven. Those who believe so are mistaken.

A theory is an hypothesis that has been proven and has entered the realm of fact. It is confirmed. There is no need to speculate whether it is real. It is. Its existence is supported by empirical evidence. Repeatable attempts to obtain the same result yield the same result. Peers who have attempted to disprove the hypothesis failed. This is known as peer review. It is now a theory and no longer an hypothesis.

UFOs, Aliens, Yeti, Bigfoot and time travel are all hypotheses until repeatable empirical evidence indicates they are real or exist and is presented. The Duck Billed Platypus was not accepted as real until one was offered for examination. The same goes for anything there is no empirical evidence for.

@wizardofid has tried to explain this in this thread as well.

You're right that scientific terminology matters — but your definition of theory is closer to the everyday informal sense than to the scientific one.

In science, a theory is not a proven hypothesis. It’s a robust explanatory framework that’s supported by evidence and consistently predicts outcomes. But it is still open to refinement or revision if new data shows up.

For example:
The theory of gravity isn’t “proven” in the absolute sense — we update it from Newton to Einstein and beyond as our models improve.
Germ theory was opposed for decades before we had the tools to verify the mechanisms.
Plate tectonics was dismissed as fringe until evidence caught up.

So scientific theories evolve as evidence accumulates. They aren’t static trophies.

UFOs, aliens, and other unexplained phenomena are hypotheses at present, yes — but historically, many hypotheses stayed unproven until the technology existed to test them.

That’s why some of us prefer curiosity over dismissal. Hypotheses aren’t automatically nonsense — they’re simply waiting for better tools, better data, or better questions.

To build on your definition of hypothesis vs theory, here is a recent scholarly article exploring plasmoids as a candidate for UAP phenomena. They explicitly describe objects with behaviours (90-180° turns, passage through solid materials, negative effects on electronics) that are traditionally excluded from human-vehicle models.

‘Self-illuminating, pulsating… plasmoids… travel at different velocities…’ (Joseph et al. 2024)
‘Plasmas also… negatively affect electronics and mental activity… enter the cockpits of airplanes…’ (Joseph et al. 2024)
‘We believe that plasmoids that arrive in the thermosphere from locations unknown should be described as “extraterrestrial”.’ (Joseph et al. 2024)

So, while this article does not claim definitive proof of non-biological consciousness, it clearly shows the hypothesis space has expanded. If we insist that nothing is worth discussion unless it is already a “theory” in the sense of being fully verified, we risk shutting down curious inquiry before the next evidence emerges.

Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena, Extraterrestrial Life, Plasmoids, Shape Shifters, Replicons, Thunderstorms, Lightning, Hallucinations, Aircraft Disasters, Ocean Sightings

As documented by NASA space shuttle films and detailed in this report, self-illuminating, pulsating, plasma-like UAP/UFO (“plasmoids”) have multiple shapes and sizes, are attracted to electromagnetic activity, and travel at different velocities from different directions, making 90 to 180-degree...

www.scirp.org

 

[talanum1]

I know they exist. They taught me their physics: it's all derived from axioms: nothing I could have made up.

 

[Brian_G]

I know they exist. They taught me their physics: it's all derived from axioms: nothing I could have made up.

Be warned - this is a much more serious thread re conservative thought than what you're used to, you'll be flattened here.

And I want Saturday's lotto numbers pleez

 

[Mariner]

You're right that scientific terminology matters — but your definition of theory is closer to the everyday informal sense than to the scientific one.

There is no informal definition of a theory. Something is either a theory or it isn't.

In science, a theory is not a proven hypothesis. It’s a robust explanatory framework that’s supported by evidence and consistently predicts outcomes. But it is still open to refinement or revision if new data shows up.

Accepted as fact and cannot be refuted = proven. Refinement is always part of a theory when new evidence comes to light.

The theory of gravity isn’t “proven” in the absolute sense — we update it from Newton to Einstein and beyond as our models improve.

The theory of gravity is observable, verifiable and measurable. It is a proven fact. Small refinements do not invalidate the theory.

Germ theory was opposed for decades before we had the tools to verify the mechanisms.
Plate tectonics was dismissed as fringe until evidence caught up.

Both were hypotheses until evidence was produced to verify the hypothesis. When that evidence could not be refuted by peer review, they became theories.

So scientific theories evolve as evidence accumulates. They aren’t static trophies.

Which I have stated several times.

UFOs, aliens, and other unexplained phenomena are hypotheses at present, yes — but historically, many hypotheses stayed unproven until the technology existed to test them.

All hypotheses are unproven. When proven, they become theories.

That’s why some of us prefer curiosity over dismissal. Hypotheses aren’t automatically nonsense — they’re simply waiting for better tools, better data, or better questions.

Curiosity leads to a hypothesis becoming a theory. Speculation remains unproven.

To build on your definition of hypothesis vs theory,

It's not my definition.

here is a recent scholarly article exploring plasmoids as a candidate for UAP phenomena. They explicitly describe objects with behaviours (90-180° turns, passage through solid materials, negative effects on electronics) that are traditionally excluded from human-vehicle models.

‘Self-illuminating, pulsating… plasmoids… travel at different velocities…’ (Joseph et al. 2024)
‘Plasmas also… negatively affect electronics and mental activity… enter the cockpits of airplanes…’ (Joseph et al. 2024)
‘We believe that plasmoids that arrive in the thermosphere from locations unknown should be described as “extraterrestrial”.’ (Joseph et al. 2024)

That's an opinion, not a hypothesis. Who are the "we" he references, and who is he?

So, while this article does not claim definitive proof of non-biological consciousness, it clearly shows the hypothesis space has expanded. If we insist that nothing is worth discussion unless it is already a “theory” in the sense of being fully verified, we risk shutting down curious inquiry before the next evidence emerges.

You mean speculation has increased. To formulate a hypothesis, the axioms of the hypothesis need to be defined. They haven't.

Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena, Extraterrestrial Life, Plasmoids, Shape Shifters, Replicons, Thunderstorms, Lightning, Hallucinations, Aircraft Disasters, Ocean Sightings

As documented by NASA space shuttle films and detailed in this report, self-illuminating, pulsating, plasma-like UAP/UFO (“plasmoids”) have multiple shapes and sizes, are attracted to electromagnetic activity, and travel at different velocities from different directions, making 90 to 180-degree...

www.scirp.org

You read what you wanted into that abstract. Do you understand the nature of plasma and plasmoids? In WW2 they were known as Foo Fighters. In other words, static electricity. A lightning strike is so hot that plasma is formed from the air. And it's static electricity. That is not a hypothesis either.

Thunderstorms are major sources of positive charges directed to the ionosphere and likely provide excitatory charges to plasmoids congregating above and those descending within these raging storms. Thunderstorms also provide negative charges to Earth’s surface, which is surrounded by insulating lower atmospheres that are also positively charged, i.e. the stratosphere and troposphere [4] [5]; whereas the ocean surface under white water and turbulent conditions may develop a positive charge

 

[Brian_G]

Space aliens are breeding with humans, university instructor says. Scientists say otherwise.

Outlandish claim has a secret breeding program creating alien-human hybrids who can survive climate change.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[wingnut771]

 

[Maurice Kitching]

I'm not sure why you want me to try this?

You used to be so good at it.