Doctors will close practices if NHI is implemented

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rvZA said:
In all fairness, the private sector had the chance to change since the announcement of the NHI. Instead, the private medical aid sector almost doubled in pricing. This is an indication that they can't become cheaper or cater for everyone. This also indicated that they are trying to grab as much while it is still raining. So, only thing left is the NHI. Those who want to leave, let them go. They will run into the same thing in many countries.
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You do realise that a medical aid is not allowed to make profit?
 
rvZA said:
Most definitely not in a Democratic, Socialist or Communist country. That is BS
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You cannot use the word democratic in the same sentence as socialism or communism. That is why there is no example of a successful country out there that adheres to those principles. And do not use China as an example. The ordinary people in China will certainly not agree with you that they are free or that their country is successful.
 
rvZA said:
In all fairness, the private sector had the chance to change since the announcement of the NHI. Instead, the private medical aid sector almost doubled in pricing. This is an indication that they can't become cheaper or cater for everyone. This also indicated that they are trying to grab as much while it is still raining. So, only thing left is the NHI. Those who want to leave, let them go. They will run into the same thing in many countries.
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Doctors not only studied for many years, their courses were also very expensive, not only that, if they make even a small mistake and you die they're in big crap. With that kind of risk you can't possibly expect it to be a cheap service. Cost for eveything in this country also sky rocketed over the last year or two, yet you expect medical cost to not increase. Are you crazy, or are you stupid? The only reason you want the NHI is the same reason the other stupid people in this country wants the NHI, they can't afford medical cost currently and instead of bettering themselves they'd much rather fck the rest of us that's already working our butts off and paying towards their "free" money via sky high taxes.


Velskoen said:
Like R450 to renew a prescription telephonically?

There is fair compensation and then there is daylight robbery. Medical aids are as much to blame.

Heaven knows, NHI is most certainly not the answer in any form but medical costs globally are unaffordable.

My brother in the US had a big back op in January. Cost the equivalent of just over ZAR1m.
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I've never been charged to renew a script, I normally just call and they email it to me or I go pick it up. Those doctors are just taking chances.
 
Craig_ said:
Doctors not only studied for many years, their courses were also very expensive, not only that, if they make even a small mistake and you die they're in big crap. With that kind of risk you can't possibly expect it to be a cheap service. Cost for eveything in this country also sky rocketed over the last year or two, yet you expect medical cost to not increase. Are you crazy, or are you stupid? The only reason you want the NHI is the same reason the other stupid people in this country wants the NHI, they can't afford medical cost currently and instead of bettering themselves they'd much rather fck the rest of us that's already working our butts off and paying towards their "free" money via sky high taxes.
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We will leave this for the courts to decide whether the poor is worthy or not.

Craig_ said:
I've never been charged to renew a script, I normally just call and they email it to me or I go pick it up. Those doctors are just taking chances.
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Our doctors no longer do any telephonic script renewals at all. They now require a R650 visit and examination for script renewals. Before we paid R450 to get a script renewed upon request and we could then collect it. It used to be R200 cheaper than a normal visit.
 
RudderVator said:
Glad to see the "not profits" of discovery paid for that massive new building. Hard work looking for ways not to pay. Or how to make products so complicated to understand so fewer people will question it.
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Discovery also has a bank and an insurance company. They will claim that is where they make their money.
 
Stonemason said:
You cannot use the word democratic in the same sentence as socialism or communism. That is why there is no example of a successful country out there that adheres to those principles. And do not use China as an example. The ordinary people in China will certainly not agree with you that they are free or that their country is successful.
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Some people still do not understand the hierarchy of Communism.... it all starts with democracy.
 
Stonemason said:
You do realise that a medical aid is not allowed to make profit?
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But they do. They make Trillions. Hence the reason government is closing them down. If they are not a profitable company, they would have no problem giving this sector to government.
 
Velskoen said:
Like R450 to renew a prescription telephonically?

There is fair compensation and then there is daylight robbery. Medical aids are as much to blame.

Heaven knows, NHI is most certainly not the answer in any form but medical costs globally are unaffordable.

My brother in the US had a big back op in January. Cost the equivalent of just over ZAR1m.
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Yeah, this for me is a p*ss take, prophylaxis for Malaria requires a script, which means I have to go to the Doctor, tell him in two sentences what I need and he writes a script and charges R500.

He asked me if I would consider a phone service, the same price but I wouldn't have to come to see him. :oops:
 
rvZA said:
But they do. They make Trillions. Hence the reason government is closing them down. If they are not a profitable company, they would have no problem giving this sector to government.
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Sure Bonitas, Fed Health, Momentum and discovery etc are just doing the whole medical aid thing out of the kindness of their own heart expecting to just break even.
 
Craig_ said:
Doctors not only studied for many years, their courses were also very expensive, not only that, if they make even a small mistake and you die they're in big crap. With that kind of risk you can't possibly expect it to be a cheap service. Cost for eveything in this country also sky rocketed over the last year or two, yet you expect medical cost to not increase. Are you crazy, or are you stupid? The only reason you want the NHI is the same reason the other stupid people in this country wants the NHI, they can't afford medical cost currently and instead of bettering themselves they'd much rather fck the rest of us that's already working our butts off and paying towards their "free" money via sky high taxes.
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I am not here to pay for the studies of a medical practitioner nor reward him for the risk of running a practice he selected out of his own free will.

There are a few other professions that have also spent many years studying. Maybe not quite as long as medical nor quite as expensive but still. And the Health Professions Council of South Africa is effectively there to protect medical practitioners of all shades and abilities, not prosecute for malpractice. Very very rarely does a malpractice suit succeed. So medical practitioner insurance is basically insurance for doctors to protect themselves from legal prosecution.

Medical science has made extraordinary advances yes and there are truly dedicated and ethical practitioners. But the medical profession, medical aids and Big Pharma are akin to the long and short term insurance, legal and investment industries: a huge siphon to separate people from their hard earned money.

How is there a blanket increase in medical aid fees each year irrespective of your medical track record or claim history? Financialisation of any economic sector, product or service leads to this gross distortion in costs.
 
Zukat said:
Oh like prescribing you antibiotics for every minor issue you come in with?
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Suuuure, let's see how it goes when you have a real medical emergency like bypass surgery or a car accident. Good luck with 'NHI'
 
rvZA said:
We will leave this for the courts to decide whether the poor is worthy or not.
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You are part of the problem.
rvZA said:
Our doctors no longer do any telephonic script renewals at all. They now require a R650 visit and examination for script renewals. Before we paid R450 to get a script renewed upon request and we could then collect it. It used to be R200 cheaper than a normal visit.
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You should find a new doctor. Although seeing how you can tell a story only to suit your agenda I'm not sure I'd believe from you anyway.
 
Velskoen said:
This is true. The current system is far superior to any form of NHI.
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Current system is really stupid.

On the insurance side, they have set it up such that you either have pretty decent health insurance, or none at all. There is nothing in the middle for people who cannot afford a hospital plan, but are not so poor that they need state facilities. Any time you have an all-or-nothing approach, you leave out lots of people.

Obongocare in the US did the same thing:
The act largely retained the existing structure of Medicare, Medicaid, and the employer market, but individual markets were radically overhauled.[1][11] Insurers were made to accept all applicants without charging based on preexisting conditions or demographic status (except age). To combat the resultant adverse selection, the act mandated that individuals buy insurance (or pay a fine/tax) and that insurers cover a list of "essential health benefits".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affordable_Care_Act
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We call these PMBs.
A better way IMO is to soften the system to instead have a number of steps instead of all or nothing.
 
Velskoen said:
I am not here to pay for the studies of a medical practitioner nor reward him for the risk of running a practice he selected out of his own free will.

There are a few other professions that have also spent many years studying. Maybe not quite as long as medical nor quite as expensive but still. And the Health Professions Council of South Africa is effectively there to protect medical practitioners of all shades and abilities, not prosecute for malpractice. Very very rarely does a malpractice suit succeed. So medical practitioner insurance is basically insurance for doctors to protect themselves from legal prosecution.

Medical science has made extraordinary advances yes and there are truly dedicated and ethical practitioners. But the medical profession, medical aids and Big Pharma are akin to the long and short term insurance, legal and investment industries: a huge siphon to separate people from their hard earned money.

How is there a blanket increase in medical aid fees each year irrespective of your medical track record or claim history? Financialisation of any economic sector, product or service leads to this gross distortion in costs.
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Nope, you're exactly there to compensate him for that, unless you want to go to a sangoma for medical advice, you'll be expected to compensate him for that. And considering how many lives doctors saves every day it's worth every cent. You can always go to a government hospital to see how it's done cheaply, and then see what you prefer.

Nobody forces you to take out medical aid, and no one forces you to go to a doctor, you do that of your own free will.
 
konfab said:
Current system is really stupid.

On the insurance side, they have set it up such that you either have pretty decent health insurance, or none at all. There is nothing in the middle for people who cannot afford a hospital plan, but are not so poor that they need state facilities. Any time you have an all-or-nothing approach, you leave out lots of people.

Obongocare in the US did the same thing:


We call these PMBs.
A better way IMO is to soften the system to instead have a number of steps instead of all or nothing.
Click to expand...
True yes. I was comparing the current system to the proposed NHI, between the 2 of which the current system is better. But you are quite correct saying that it leaves much to be desired. It needs a huge overhaul with the total medical and pharmaceutical industries being redesigned. How? I don't know.

Friend of mine with 3 kids is paying R16k pm. I too am self employed and I pay an obscene amount for medical cover for my wife and I. Despite benefits being reduced each year. I have no idea what employees pay for medical cover but whatever it is, it's becoming unaffordable for most people.
 
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