Dota 2 team disqualified for using illegal mouse

[ScottulusMaximus]

A macro to teleport all meepo's at once is incredibly OP... But as you were gents

 

[Werfetter]

Once again though... macros that enhance the player, not give them abilities beyond human capabilities. Major difference which most of you seem to be missing.

That is exactly the issue at hand but what I was trying to point out is that where to draw the line is not as simple and do not claim to know so the simplest is to just ban them altogether as macros CAN enhance a players performance to something beyond what a human is capable.

What you are describing is the same as using a bot to analyse a situation and then perform an action. Not what a macro is as it's all fixed sequences without any automatic decision making. More correct would be an archer having a special shock absorber design so the arrow doesn't move on release.

Not really since the arm is not doing the aiming. The arm is not doing any sort of decision making only improving the archers ability to fire consitently beyond what a human is capable of. The "archer", in this case, is still doing that but it is a matter of semantics which is exactly why the obsurd analogy. Where do you draw the line as per my previous post.

 

[Swa]

Not really since the arm is not doing the aiming. The arm is not doing any sort of decision making only improving the archers ability to fire consitently beyond what a human is capable of. The "archer", in this case, is still doing that but it is a matter of semantics which is exactly why the obsurd analogy. Where do you draw the line as per my previous post.

The same with a macro. The decision making is still with a human. This is purely a matter of where you draw the line. So my previous comment still stands why allow swimmers to wear swimsuits? We allow suits but not flippers. Or we could allow everyone to wear flippers. As long as the rules are the same for all it's fair so it's all arbitrary not to allow macros in e-sports or stimulants in athletics. If you don't want to have macros as part of someone's skillset then pick a game where they're not going to make a difference.

 

[smkungfu]

It sounds like the mouse was using some sort of performance enhancer/steroids

Most probably Russian made.

 

[Archer]

I can't take your viewpoint seriously at all. You're somehow confusing item duping in Diablo 2 with World of Warcraft Arena which is couple of hundred thousand dollar global esports. Have a look.
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/esports

Don't worry, I can't take yours seriously either because you'd prefer to dumb down a sport instead of letting people compete on pure skill.

And please don't come with the BS notion of macros being a skill when you've said it yourself, any pleb can write them

 

[Archer]

Esport is about virtual combat. The Art of War applies to that field of combat as much as it does in the real world, it only costs virtual lives and not real ones.

If you want Esports to grow to a phenomenon, then short sighted rules on macro's or poorly implemented game macro's are going to see someone rise to the top who does all those things.
Who's to say that the 5th spot on your team isn't supposed to be the hacker/coder type?

The rules, just like the rules say rugby is played with 15 people, and the 15th guy isn't allowed to bring a short spear onto the field

All it will take, is a game where it's not just about manual dexterity, but mental agility and absolute resource management and the refinement of that process to the nth degree.
Go have a look at Six-Sigma, Devops and ITIL IT processes to see what I mean.

What do you mean? A game like DoTA maybe?? Seems to me it has dexterity, mental agility and resource management requirements. Why now add macros that ELIMIMATES DEXTERITY requirements? Let me throw something back at you, who's to say the first player on your team isn't some kind of dextrous god able to out-micro the others? Oh no sorry, the whole arena is about what YOU want and YOU want "plebs who can write macros."

Writing macros to free up brain resources to attend to other tasks more efficiently is smart, not cheating.

Might as well free up more brain resources (which the plebs seem to be sorely lacking) and have macros get last hits on the creeps too. Heck, why is this game even demanding a person to multi task in the first place?? Let's rather go back to playing Pong lest we demand too much of players

Once again though... macros that enhance the player, not give them abilities beyond human capabilities. Major difference which most of you seem to be missing.

Does any macro perform an action flawlessly every time? If yes, then any macro is giving the player abilities beyond that of any human. That is the point you are missing

edit: what you're actually missing is the fact that this is not war. It is a sport. And all sports have limiting rules in an attempt to make a level playing field. War you couldn't care less about being fair, so any comparisons to it are silly.

 

[Cray]

Esport is about virtual combat. The Art of War applies to that field of combat as much as it does in the real world, it only costs virtual lives and not real ones.

All it will take, is a game where it's not just about manual dexterity, but mental agility and absolute resource management and the refinement of that process to the nth degree.
Go have a look at Six-Sigma, Devops and ITIL IT processes to see what I mean.

Even if I accept you analogy that Esport is about virtual combat, am curious to know what kind of combat anywhere removes physical prowess as a component? Manual dexterity and strength as well as tactics and know how have always been a part of combat yet somehow you think that virtual combat should remove the manual dexterity part?

Or do you think that somehow DOTA 2 is not cerebral enough and that there are not enough tactics - if so perhaps you should watch something like tournament Startcraft 2 instead?

 

[Messugga]

Even if I accept you analogy that Esport is about virtual combat, am curious to know what kind of combat anywhere removes physical prowess as a component? Manual dexterity and strength as well as tactics and know how have always been a part of combat yet somehow you think that virtual combat should remove the manual dexterity part?

Or do you think that somehow DOTA 2 is not cerebral enough and that there are not enough tactics - if so perhaps you should watch something like tournament Startcraft 2 instead?

Pressing the "launch nukes" button. Imagine how that would've ruined Shaka's day. I guess the equivalent would be to take an axe to the opposition team's computers.

 

[Archer]

I guess the equivalent would be to take an axe to the opposition team's computers.

This would indeed free up many brain resources, a very smart and efficient play. 10/10 would allow

 

[DMNknight]

Even if I accept you analogy that Esport is about virtual combat, am curious to know what kind of combat anywhere removes physical prowess as a component? Manual dexterity and strength as well as tactics and know how have always been a part of combat yet somehow you think that virtual combat should remove the manual dexterity part?

Or do you think that somehow DOTA 2 is not cerebral enough and that there are not enough tactics - if so perhaps you should watch something like tournament Startcraft 2 instead?

Remove? No.
Make it an option, why not?
(Starcraft2 is a terrible example, it's about actions per minute first, the resource accumulation curve, resource investment into a strategy and then about tactics etc)

Throughout the history of games, you have those that are strong, those who are fast, those who have high endurance, high intelligence or wisdom. I don't see the disadvantage of moving those stats outside the game and requiring them of the players too.

May not be applicable to DotA2 though, mores the pity when it gets trumped by a game that does.

At the same time, thanks. I've just gotten an idea that I think may work quite nicely in a lane pusher game like dota.

 

[ponder]

It's pretty simple, the rules of the comp state no macros, he violated those rules, his team got disqualified and rightly so.

Arguing about the use of macros in comps is irrelevant when the rules don't allow for it.

End of story.

 

[Fulcrum29]

It's pretty simple, the rules of the comp state no macros, he violated those rules, his team go disqualified and rightly so.

Arguing about the use of macros in comps is irrelevant when the rules don't allow for it.

End of story.

Yep. No 3rd party assistance is allowed, neither on a hardware level. However, custom ‘in-game’ key bindings are allowed.

 

[Swa]

Don't worry, I can't take yours seriously either because you'd prefer to dumb down a sport instead of letting people compete on pure skill.

And please don't come with the BS notion of macros being a skill when you've said it yourself, any pleb can write them

Any pleb can play games as well, doesn't mean everyone will be good at it. Point is it's accessible to all so nobody is being left out.

It's pretty simple, the rules of the comp state no macros, he violated those rules, his team got disqualified and rightly so.

Arguing about the use of macros in comps is irrelevant when the rules don't allow for it.

End of story.

It's not irrelevant. Rules should continually be evaluated to ensure they are necessary and fair. Otherwise we get ridiculous requirements like the recent Caster saga where someone has to dumb down their natural abilities because others simply don't like competing against them.