E-tags cannot be cloned? Really?

Why on earth would you bother cloning the etag? Clone a number plate and just drive on through - it's not like you are expecting a bill in the first place.
 
Albereth said:
Why on earth would you bother cloning the etag? Clone a number plate and just drive on through - it's not like you are expecting a bill in the first place.
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We all want to clone Malema's eTag and drive thru the Toll gates like maniacs :D
 
UnUnOctium said:
Fact is, it could be the simplest thing of unencrypted license data or it could be what I said above. Only one way to know and that's through having one of these e-tags to experiment with.
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Yeah... common problem. Everyone wants to dabble; nobody wants to buy an etag
 
eehellfire said:
Yeah... common problem. Everyone wants to dabble; nobody wants to buy an etag
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I'm in CT, I don't think they'd even let me buy one :p Simply, if e-tolling will go through, there will be e-tags, people will then want to dabble since there's e-tolling. Self-asserting problem.
 
UnUn - you seem to know a bit about this. Can the readers (overhead gantries in this case) be overloaded? I mean, if each car had, say, a thousand etags, would the reader just crap itself on fall apart? Maybe we should all be buying tags - lots of them...
 
GreGorGy said:
UnUn - you seem to know a bit about this. Can the readers (overhead gantries in this case) be overloaded? I mean, if each car had, say, a thousand etags, would the reader just crap itself on fall apart? Maybe we should all be buying tags - lots of them...
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Yes. They have a finite requirement for transmission time and then obviously a processing time. The e-tags use a standard RFID implementation, can't remember the standard, I posted it on the forum ages ago. The problem is that it will be a very big number.

The easiest way to confuse it though is to just wrap your e-tag in aluminium foil and ground that to your chassis (cigarette lighter charger, take GND cable) :). If you do a thorough job, it won't be able to read it.

Another way is Doppler shift, but you need a Lambo for that.

If you want to get high-tech, a jammer is easy to make too, though that's illegal. Wrapping something in aluminium foil isn't but the jammer can be easily hidden.
 
That's it - just wrap it in tin foil ?

But surely then you will be treated like anyone without an e-tag and will get invoiced in the post ?
 
UnUnOctium said:
Yes. They have a finite requirement for transmission time and then obviously a processing time. The e-tags use a standard RFID implementation, can't remember the standard, I posted it on the forum ages ago. The problem is that it will be a very big number.

The easiest way to confuse it though is to just wrap your e-tag in aluminium foil and ground that to your chassis (cigarette lighter charger, take GND cable) :). If you do a thorough job, it won't be able to read it.

Another way is Doppler shift, but you need a Lambo for that.

If you want to get high-tech, a jammer is easy to make too, though that's illegal. Wrapping something in aluminium foil isn't but the jammer can be easily hidden.
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You would need to go well over 300km/have to have the readers miss you reliably. Also, they can handle a truly large number of tags before getting confused, so that's not the way to go. Besides, if the system doesn't see a tag, it will probably just run off of your plates, so hiding it is pointless.
 
daveza said:
That's it - just wrap it in tin foil ?

But surely then you will be treated like anyone without an e-tag and will get invoiced in the post ?
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Correct. The problem really is hiding the numberplates. The RFID tag can be easily disabled.
 
UnUnOctium said:
Correct. The problem really is hiding the numberplates. The RFID tag can be easily disabled.
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You don't really have to hide your plates, you just need to be able to alter one letter or number for them to be invalid. Perhaps a LCD display of sorts behind your normal plastic plate with correct bits removed?
 
Messugga said:
You don't really have to hide your plates, you just need to be able to alter one letter or number for them to be invalid. Perhaps a LCD display of sorts behind your normal plastic plate with correct bits removed?
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That's the high-tech way. Low-tech is to just have them rotate on an axis. Flip them as you're approaching a gantry or getting onto the highway :D I do remember finding on the internet some piezo-type film which could become translucent with the removal of current. Wasn't exactly cheap though if I remember correctly.

Disclaimer: I'm doing this out of curiosity, Police In Gauteng, stay away!

P.S. To clear ambiguity, it became transparent when it has current. Translucent when no bias applied.
 
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GreGorGy said:
UnUn - you seem to know a bit about this. Can the readers (overhead gantries in this case) be overloaded? I mean, if each car had, say, a thousand etags, would the reader just crap itself on fall apart? Maybe we should all be buying tags - lots of them...
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You have an idea here.

Have a scanner which records the etags of all the vehicles travelling near you.
Spam the gantry reader as you pass through.
The spam will include vehicles which have already passed through, and which have yet to pass through.

Raise enough anomolies to call the whole system into disrepute.
 
UnUnOctium said:
That's the high-tech way. Low-tech is to just have them rotate on an axis. Flip them as you're approaching a gantry or getting onto the highway :D I do remember finding on the internet some piezo-type film which could become translucent with the removal of current. Wasn't exactly cheap though if I remember correctly.

Disclaimer: I'm doing this out of curiosity, Police In Gauteng, stay away!

P.S. To clear ambiguity, it became transparent when it has current. Translucent when no bias applied.
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Especially good if you drive a common car. Go around recording the reg no's of all cars similer to your's and digitally duplicate them....... Make sure that all cars concerned are "vanilla" with no distinguishing markings.
 
alloytoo said:
Especially good if you drive a common car. Go around recording the reg no's of all cars similer to your's and digitally duplicate them....... Make sure that all cars concerned are "vanilla" with no distinguishing markings.
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Silver VW Polos then :P
 
What would the effect of an infrared flash, they use near infrared cameras right? How would they counter this? As it is just above the spectrum we can see no one would notice if a flash burst went off from say one of the front headlight housings. A warrant would be required for your car to be properly searched as well.

I am curious as I see this as another potential flaw in a pretty bad, overpriced system.
 
Bern said:
What would the effect of an infrared flash, they use near infrared cameras right? How would they counter this? As it is just above the spectrum we can see no one would notice if a flash burst went off from say one of the front headlight housings. A warrant would be required for your car to be properly searched as well.

I am curious as I see this as another potential flaw in a pretty bad, overpriced system.
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I don't think it's ir. why would they have those near uv lights all over the place if it was?
 
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