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Question of the Day: Was the Airlink flyover too low?
SCRAP e-TOLLING
cosatu - Support strike on 7th March
http://www.cosatu.org.za/show.php?ID=5894
"We are disappointed at the decision of the Ministry of Finance during the Budget Speech, to go ahead with the e-tolling system, but more so appalled by the statements attributed to Jimmy Manyi - Cabinet spokesperson, that e-tolling is a ‘fact of life` and `people must get used to it.` Clearly this type of response demonstrates the arrogance and disregard some of the senior Government Officials have for the plight of the workers, the poor and the organisations representing them. It is clear that all our members and many citizens in general are opposed to e-tolling, yet Mr. Manyi’s flippant response to it is, `people must get used to it.`
In the absence of reliable and safe public transport, it is unacceptable that workers must pay for this. Worker`s paid for the World Cup, paid for the Gautrain that only serves a small elite at a cost that ordinary working people can not afford and now workers are expected to pay for the e-tolling system. This is not the way to build a safe and reliable public transport system that already struggle workers are faced with. For the record, we did not participate in making a multi-billion rand loan and neither did we make a commitment to settle it!
We call on government to listen to the views of the organised labour and the citizens at large. We demand the immediate scrapping of the e-tolling system, or we will in any event make it unworkable!"
cosatu - Support strike on 7th March
http://www.cosatu.org.za/show.php?ID=5894
"We are disappointed at the decision of the Ministry of Finance during the Budget Speech, to go ahead with the e-tolling system, but more so appalled by the statements attributed to Jimmy Manyi - Cabinet spokesperson, that e-tolling is a ‘fact of life` and `people must get used to it.` Clearly this type of response demonstrates the arrogance and disregard some of the senior Government Officials have for the plight of the workers, the poor and the organisations representing them. It is clear that all our members and many citizens in general are opposed to e-tolling, yet Mr. Manyi’s flippant response to it is, `people must get used to it.`
In the absence of reliable and safe public transport, it is unacceptable that workers must pay for this. Worker`s paid for the World Cup, paid for the Gautrain that only serves a small elite at a cost that ordinary working people can not afford and now workers are expected to pay for the e-tolling system. This is not the way to build a safe and reliable public transport system that already struggle workers are faced with. For the record, we did not participate in making a multi-billion rand loan and neither did we make a commitment to settle it!
We call on government to listen to the views of the organised labour and the citizens at large. We demand the immediate scrapping of the e-tolling system, or we will in any event make it unworkable!"
Hell YEAH!!
Shayd
Expert Member
Cannot believe I am saying this but GO COSATU.
HavocXphere
Honorary Master
wow - I'm the only one who voted unsure so far. That is unexpected.
I think the issue at hand isn't that people are pissed about having to pay, but rather that there is a perception that the money collected isn't all going into actual road infrastructure. i.e. It is perceived as a money making scheme.
I think the issue at hand isn't that people are pissed about having to pay, but rather that there is a perception that the money collected isn't all going into actual road infrastructure. i.e. It is perceived as a money making scheme.
Bern
Expert Member
That is pretty intense, I have heard a huge amount is going to the company providing the system and some very overpriced controls, but that is crazy!!! Would someone who knows the actual figures be able to say if the Treasury bail out is actually enough to cover the actual road works (for improvements) and the rest of the toll is actually going to cover bringing in the toll?
i would expect SANRAL to fully disclose the ENTIRE project with full financials - if there is nothing dodgy going on and it is a fair price they should have no reason not to open the documents up for scrutiny. Of course I don't believe this is the case, so I suspect they will try keep it under wraps as long as possible.
Additional rant - WTF is with the R300 billion for old school nuclear??? Could they at least be looking in to small reactor systems such as Thorium instead of trying to go with the super dangerous, huge amounts of nuclear waste producing and super costly old large options? Really now!
/rant over
all valid!
one of my MANY reasons for opposing the e-tolls is, to show govt that they need to consult the people - nuclear/health plans/mining laws/tax laws/labour laws.............. We have seen our gat with the arms deal - we have to be more alert, we have to govern government
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
It's catching....
Bern
Expert Member
Interesting, perhaps SANRAL and the ANC (as they will take the hit on this) should take note!
system32
Executive Member
STOP HIGHWAY ROBBERY
Q. How may KM were improved?
A. 185km
Q. How many toll gantries were built?
A. 49, average spacing is 185km/49=3.77km
Q. How many lanes were added?
A. 1 lane
Q. Was this a new road?
A. No
Q. The cost of the road improvements?
A. R20b
Q. The cost of the e-toll infrastructure?
A. R14b
Q. Cost per gantry?
A. R14b/49=R285m
Q. What % of revenue goes to collection
A. 35%, compare that with SARS which is <1%
A. A fuel levy costs virtually zero to collect.
Q. To pay for the roads, what would a Gauteng Only fuel levy be?
A. 10-15c per litre for 8-10years (not sure if this covers the R14b as well)
Q. Budgeted income per day?
A. R300m
Q. What % of fines get paid?
A. 20% - probably about 20% will pay e-toll as well.
A. Fuel levy is 100% collection
Q. What % of Electronic Toll Collection is overseas owned?
A. 85% owned by Kapsch.
Q. Will you pay VAT on the e-toll (tax on tax)
A. Yes
Q. Where can I get more info?
A. http://www.tollfreegp.co.za
A. http://www.ezshuttle.co.za/Toll-road-fat-cats.php
Q. How may KM were improved?
A. 185km
Q. How many toll gantries were built?
A. 49, average spacing is 185km/49=3.77km
Q. How many lanes were added?
A. 1 lane
Q. Was this a new road?
A. No
Q. The cost of the road improvements?
A. R20b
Q. The cost of the e-toll infrastructure?
A. R14b
Q. Cost per gantry?
A. R14b/49=R285m
Q. What % of revenue goes to collection
A. 35%, compare that with SARS which is <1%
A. A fuel levy costs virtually zero to collect.
Q. To pay for the roads, what would a Gauteng Only fuel levy be?
A. 10-15c per litre for 8-10years (not sure if this covers the R14b as well)
Q. Budgeted income per day?
A. R300m
Q. What % of fines get paid?
A. 20% - probably about 20% will pay e-toll as well.
A. Fuel levy is 100% collection
Q. What % of Electronic Toll Collection is overseas owned?
A. 85% owned by Kapsch.
Q. Will you pay VAT on the e-toll (tax on tax)
A. Yes
Q. Where can I get more info?
A. http://www.tollfreegp.co.za
A. http://www.ezshuttle.co.za/Toll-road-fat-cats.php
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A single trip from Centurion to Johannesburg CBD is approx 44-50km which is about R30 e-toll fee; for a return trip total is R60. Multiply this by 5 days a week over 3 weeks, one pays approx R900 for e-tolls a month. Excluding petrol costs.
Bern
Expert Member
How does your maths work? 50xR0.30=R15, so the return trip is R30 without the etag discount. Unless you are talking about the initial pricing, but then please mention as much.
Monthly cost R30x5x4=R600 per month, but it is capped at R550 (assuming 100km per day @R0.30 toll fee/km)
I am also surprised they don't have peak and off-peak rates to try manage traffic a bit, that would also encourage employers to use flexi-time.
HavocXphere
Honorary Master
Source?
I find it difficult to believe that'll cost 14bn even after corruption & tenderpreneurs.
6. Expensive and complicated e-tolling system – this system costs almost as much as the highways (R14 billion), and there will probably be lots of fraud and billing problems.
http://www.tollfreegp.co.za/10reasons.html
and perhaps more accurate here
http://politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71654?oid=265838&sn=Detail&pid=71654
Last edited:
HavocXphere
Honorary Master
Its a bunch of cameras attached to a steel structure & a fancy computer system. No fcking way that costs 14bn.
As a comparison, for that money we could build a supercomputer faster than *anything* else out there right now. Supercomputers...those are "expensive and complicated"....a couple of cameras...not so much.
Its so ludicrous that I'm inclined to believe the 14bn stat is wrong.
well, then the ball is in Sanral's court - they are welcome to stop the disinformation with facts (if they have the guts and their facts are more appetizing...)
Bern
Expert Member
I wish SANRAL would (by force, say court interdict) publicize the costs for the Project. In fact I would like them to publicize the financials, project plans, suppliers, sub-contractors, projections - the whole damn lot. That way we can all see for ourselves, if they are justified, well then no problem.
yip and I would like to see the thought process and reasoning they went through in their decision to collect the fees via the expensive e-tag method, instead of a tax on fuel