Election: Two things I felt like sharing

milomak said:
another thing that doesn't help is that the opposition parties seem to spend far too much time being anti-ANC rather than convincing people of how they will change South Africa for the better.
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How do you convince somebody that you can do better?
The person you are trying to convince will say: Prove it.
Now what?

The DA are the only party that have a track record that can be used as proof. BUT, that track record is extremely difficult to expose, simply because of the complexities involved with the work that the DA had to do to do what little they could.

Now, with the ANC drafting regulations to take power away from the municipalities, it will be even more difficult for a party who is running a municipality well to use it as proof.

Basically, if the DA do not control a province, there will be no proof to change peoples minds in the near future.
 
milomak said:
I think it is far easier for the MyBB population to complain about lack of forward movement because most of us here have always had access to the basics. Electricity and water in rural areas come to mind. Then look at things like grants which have improved for poor South Africans since the ANC came into power and you may begin to have an idea of why the vast majority, the ANC is a compelling choice.
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I was actually wondering about their (lack of) reaction to those things that DID NOT improve in FIFTEEN YEARS. There are areas in Polokwane where, so the employees at our apartment building tell me, they still do not have electricity.

But you know what? If it troubles them so little that they vote for the same party who let them down before, why I should I lie awake at night about it? I mean, I pay taxes. If the govt does not use my money for the purpose it was intended - inter alia to help these peeps - why should I worry? I did my part.

Or am I wrong?
 
milomak said:
i think people here might fail to understand that while the ANC has fallen very short, for the majority of South Africans (let's read blacks), their lives are better than before the ANC came into power.
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If that were true, I'd agree. But I don't fully see how the lives of the poorly-educated masses has improved since the ANC took over. Has education, health and safety improved? Has unemployment dropped significantly? Giving poorly-built houses with little or no services doesn't cut it IMO. Trevor's efforts on the finances are commendable, but that's just one light in a larger, darker, situation.

If we had stricter control over the flow of refugees into the country, who take jobs and housing, then send their income back to their families, then I think many of the issues around crime, basic services and employment would've improved dramatically IMO. But the ANC is too concerned about their corrupt friendships to take that step. I only hope that the next phase will see some serious efforts to help our own country before trying to pat the backs of our neighbours
 
It matters because the rest of us pay the taxes that build their free houses.
So perhaps not sympathy but an interest in who they vote for, since they decide where OUR tax money goes.
 
capetownguy said:
It matters because the rest of us pay the taxes that build their free houses.
So perhaps not sympathy but an interest in who they vote for, since they decide where OUR tax money goes.
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Who are "they" and "their"? Poorest of the poor? They do not decide where you taxes go.
 
Their lives have improved under the ANC, education, services, dignity, employment for some.

That is fact, but whether its improved enough is a different story.
 
blunomore said:
Who are "they" and "their"? Poorest of the poor? They do not decide where you taxes go.
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poorest of the poor vote ANC. ANC wins. ANC buys arms and mercedez benz's and nandos.
a complete over simplification and generalization.
 
Hence why they vote ANC into power. To give them another chance to get it right and they will do this for a while as long as the ANC tells them what they want to hear. It would be the same for any of us.

Whether you vote ANC, IFP, DA or COPE. As long as your party still sings your tune you will continue to vote for them.
 
blunomore said:
I was actually wondering about their (lack of) reaction to those things that DID NOT improve in FIFTEEN YEARS. There are areas in Polokwane where, so the employees at our apartment building tell me, they still do not have electricity.

But you know what? If it troubles them so little that they vote for the same party who let them down before, why I should I lie awake at night about it? I mean, I pay taxes. If the govt does not use my money for the purpose it was intended - inter alia to help these peeps - why should I worry? I did my part.

Or am I wrong?
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i think you misconstrued my post. i was merely trying to point why the majority of South Africans may continue to vote for the ANC. I wasn't saying that you should continue to be empathic to them for making that choice.
 
milomak said:
i think people here might fail to understand that while the ANC has fallen very short, for the majority of South Africans (let's read blacks), their lives are better than before the ANC came into power.

I think it is far easier for the MyBB population to complain about lack of forward movement because most of us here have always had access to the basics. Electricity and water in rural areas come to mind. Then look at things like grants which have improved for poor South Africans since the ANC came into power and you may begin to have an idea of why the vast majority, the ANC is a compelling choice.

It may grate the likes of you and I as we really get little return for the huge chunks of cash the government takes from us in taxes. but as i have said on a number of times, how we (MyBB) view the country is really not representative of the weaknesses and strengths the majority of South Africans have seen.
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Its not about who they are voting for, its about the 2/3rds that they are so eager to hand over. Why? because they have been told to. Why would it be dangerous? Not a clue. Its the destruction of democracy. Its the destruction of demanding performance from any government. Its not hard to understand.
 
blunomore said:
I was actually wondering about their (lack of) reaction to those things that DID NOT improve in FIFTEEN YEARS. There are areas in Polokwane where, so the employees at our apartment building tell me, they still do not have electricity.

But you know what? If it troubles them so little that they vote for the same party who let them down before, why I should I lie awake at night about it? I mean, I pay taxes. If the govt does not use my money for the purpose it was intended - inter alia to help these peeps - why should I worry? I did my part.

Or am I wrong?
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Well for a change I completely agree with you :) It has moved past the point of empathy to where I not only feel little remorse but actually get that "you get what you vote for so deal with it" type of attitude. I know its easy sitting here saying that and seeing people suffer is no fun but when you CONTINUOUSLY do nothing to improve your own situation then maybe some of that hardship that you experience has to be blamed on yourself.
 
Bottom line is this country deserves what it gets. If that is a Mugarbe or a zim then so be it.
This was the election to change things and still these monkeys,(no wait monkeys can be trained and no I am not refering to black people as there are many white, Indian, etc who voted ANC) continue to vote ANC I have no sympathy nor do I care for their well-being.
 
blunomore said:
My point is this: We have had 4 elections now - 1994, 1999, 2004 and 2009. We work with local communities a lot and the poverty is terrible. To see it upfront is painful. To live it, must be soul-destroying. So I have had sympathy/empathy up to now. However, when some of these people who have had NONE of the promises made to them, kept and none of their lives improved, still decide to vote ANC, I start feeling that my sympathy is just a wasted emotion. Flame me for being a coldhearted bitch if you like, but it's hard to feel for someone who cannot see reality and act accordingly.
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Spoke to my domestic about voting ANC...she said she is not voting ANC this time, even DA looks better (what she said). ANC are getting too arrogant IMO...things are going to start changing...maybe nothing big this election...but ppl are slowly starting to get more fed up with ANC...the winds...they are a changin. ;)
 
blunomore said:
I was actually wondering about their (lack of) reaction to those things that DID NOT improve in FIFTEEN YEARS. There are areas in Polokwane where, so the employees at our apartment building tell me, they still do not have electricity.

But you know what? If it troubles them so little that they vote for the same party who let them down before, why I should I lie awake at night about it? I mean, I pay taxes. If the govt does not use my money for the purpose it was intended - inter alia to help these peeps - why should I worry? I did my part.

Or am I wrong?
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I think i'm going to follow this. I do not need to go sit in a goverment hospital..... you go die there if you want to vote for them. And before you do remember to collect your garlic and beet.
 
People with no services can't complain of poor services.
People with no houses won't complain about poorly built ones.
People used to bantu education won't complain about poor education.

What you need is a middle class of all races and with black people passed whites in that department,some key things are done right.A big middle class is the answer to stability of a country,without it the gap between poor and rich is huge and that feeds instability.

You need black rich people (some call it bee fat cats) to take the economic struggle further,you need them for role models.You need them as a starting point for blacks to empower themselves.
 
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