Email war: Google Gmail versus Microsoft

[elvis_presley]

Firstly, MS is more succesful in the web-based office/email space than Google, it's not like they're running scared like some have suggested.

Secondly, as it was pointed out, this was an internal video. And come on, it was pretty funny.
"Isn't that kind of wrong?"
"Hahahahahahahah!" ... "Who cares?"

Doesn't matter where it came from, it's comedy gold. MS should just run it mainstream. It's better than the stupid Mac vs PC ads.

 

[elvis_presley]

http://www.itworld.com/it-managemen...one?source=ITWNLE_nlt_bloginsights_2011-07-29
Why they did it is immaterial, the fact that they can is the problem. To me this is worrying, irrespective of Google's spin doctoring and backtracking.

I think Google today is what MS was in the 90's. Any company that has to remind everyone "we're not evil" is suspiscious. If someone just walked up to you and told you every day at work "I'm not stealing money from petty cash", how would that make you feel?

 

[elvis_presley]

Rather pay for an email service and no it is clean and not hosted in another country subject to their laws, like the US Patriot Act!

MS actually dropped a bombshell about this a month or 2 ago. It seems that if a company is registered in the USA, the Patriot act can force them to produce data they store in other countries. So pretty much none of the cloud services are safe from the Patriot act - storing it offshore means nothing. Not massively relevant to the conversation, but I thought it was interesting enough to mention

 

[Prof.Merlin]

Atleast I know when using google products that I won't get hundreds of virus's or open backdoors for haxors.

/me hides

 

[BravoDrie]

Have they really? Because im looking at this video and it seems to me that they are up to their old trick again. They using misinformation and fear-mongering to turn people away from their competition.
For me it was never about their product as much as it was their complete lack of ethics.

First off, I love Google. I use their products everyday and they even help me make some a extra couple of cents, but you have to love the Gmail Man video. Dont take it so seriously.

There is no misinformation in there, it's all true, context sensitive ads are the price we have to pay for using Google's "free" products.

 

[BravoDrie]

Microsoft reminds me of the ANC- they latch onto and make big deals out of non issue. Rather spend that time improving your services, fools.

Errr, for some people it might be a big deal, for running a business especially. If you as a business send product information to a customer you hardly want your competions ad to appear on the customers email. You will notice that the whole point of the mail is about business.

 

[McCrazieGoalz]

Personally, I don't see why anyone should have Gmail or Hotmail. It seems to me that we the customers are in the middle of what is a really ugly war between software producers.

I use Yahoo! And that is because I think they are the best for private mails in terms of design and functionality. In terms of datedness, I feel Gmail is trying too hard to get into people's lives with all their additional stuff (Google docs, maps now email and G+). They may diversify but I think Google should just stick to being a search engine and stop trying to be everywhere.

Yahoo! for my private emails (not Hotmail or Gmail, which in my opinion are both inferior), Microsoft for my software (not Google docs or Open) which includes Outlook for my business emailing, and Google for my search engine (and not Bing). Facebook as my social networking site (and not G+, Twitter or what else). Web browser; Internet Explorer, since it comes already installed with my software. Gaming console; PlayStation. Finish. I do not need clatter in my life.

I have used all these products and I know what need.

This is why I would prefer to have Microsoft on my favorite mobile handset manufacturer (Nokia) because it would merge communication between smartphone and PC. My life will be so much simpler.

Google is trying to create markets for itself by complicating people's lives. Do we really need all the Apps that Android is so famous for. Or are these needs that Google has so cleverly crafted to suck us in. Let us ask ourselves.

 

[Viva]

I was planning on writing a longer post in defense of Google and Gmail, until I read this:

Web browser; Internet Explorer, since it comes already installed with my software. Gaming console; PlayStation. Finish. I do not need clatter in my life.

Nothing more needs to be said.

 

[_TrXtR_]

This is why I would prefer to have Microsoft on my favorite mobile handset manufacturer (Nokia) because it would merge communication between smartphone and PC. My life will be so much simpler.

Google is trying to create markets for itself by complicating people's lives. Do we really need all the Apps that Android is so famous for. Or are these needs that Google has so cleverly crafted to suck us in. Let us ask ourselves.

sinner

 

[Elimentals]

Personally, I don't see why anyone should have Gmail or Hotmail. It seems to me that we the customers are in the middle of what is a really ugly war between software producers.

I was going to stay out but comments like this pushed my hand.

It is easy to forget what email was like before Gmail and I can say doesnt matter what private mail system you use, you have Google Gmail to thank for it.

Before Gmail came into the picture only options you had for private Email systems was paid for Mail accounts from ISP's or mail companies like Yahoo that also charged you for a mailbox. You could have opted to use Hotmail from Microsoft back then for free but the interface was so bad and filled with pictured advertising that you had to almost close one eye to be able to play find the mail.

The limitations of most of them was so bad that most of the time you had to make sure on a daily basis there was enough space by deleting old mails to make sure you get that important message.

In came Gmail, they had text based ads that did not fill 80% of the interface, they had 1 gig space and best of all it was free. Back when it started having free email was unheard of, if fact it was such a revolution that some people even argued that there system would fall over. They augmented that there was no way a company could give you sooo much space for free.

Forward to today. Yes today you can get other free mail options that gives you a decent sized mailbox for free, and you know what you have to thank evil Gmail man for this because if it wasn’t for them you probably still would have had to pay for 100 Mb mail boxes with pictured ads forced down your trought.

 

[elvis_presley]

Forward to today. Yes today you can get other free mail options that gives you a decent sized mailbox for free, and you know what you have to thank evil Gmail man for this because if it wasn’t for them you probably still would have had to pay for 100 Mb mail boxes with pictured ads forced down your trought.

No. Gmail innovated the UI and big mailboxes. There have always been free email options out there. As long as I can remember there's been free ad-supported webmail, and paid-for non-ad webmail.

 

[Elimentals]

No. Gmail innovated the UI and big mailboxes. There have always been free email options out there. As long as I can remember there's been free ad-supported webmail, and paid-for non-ad webmail.

Yes there where but never the full combination of size + free + decent UI. The free ones like Hotmail had 10-20 meg limits with adds even some paid ones like Yahoo Mail had 50 meg size limit for R80 a month.

Let me word it like this then:

Forward to today. Yes today you can get other free mail options that gives you a decent sized mailbox for free, and you know what you have to thank evil Gmail man for this because if it wasn’t for them you probably still would have had to pay for 100 Mb mail boxes or pictured ads forced down your trought.

The final argument is still that with competition came innovation so even if you dont use things like Gmail or Google Docs they did change the face of the internet. So for the poster I answered even if you dont like other products they have an influence in your little world and sometimes its for the better.

 

[Easter Bunny]

say what you want, but google makes my life easier. ALL my emails, contacts and calendar entries are there. when i want to reload my phone, i just do it. when i'm done, i put in my google account details and after a few seconds i have all my contacts and calendar entries back.

until last week, i thought nobody used hotmail anymore.

 

[TSpeed]

I don't need GMail or Hotmail, here is enough ads on mybroadband

 

[McCrazieGoalz]

I was going to stay out but comments like this pushed my hand.

It is easy to forget what email was like before Gmail and I can say doesnt matter what private mail system you use, you have Google Gmail to thank for it.

Before Gmail came into the picture only options you had for private Email systems was paid for Mail accounts from ISP's or mail companies like Yahoo that also charged you for a mailbox. You could have opted to use Hotmail from Microsoft back then for free but the interface was so bad and filled with pictured advertising that you had to almost close one eye to be able to play find the mail.

The limitations of most of them was so bad that most of the time you had to make sure on a daily basis there was enough space by deleting old mails to make sure you get that important message.

In came Gmail, they had text based ads that did not fill 80% of the interface, they had 1 gig space and best of all it was free. Back when it started having free email was unheard of, if fact it was such a revolution that some people even argued that there system would fall over. They augmented that there was no way a company could give you sooo much space for free.

Forward to today. Yes today you can get other free mail options that gives you a decent sized mailbox for free, and you know what you have to thank evil Gmail man for this because if it wasn’t for them you probably still would have had to pay for 100 Mb mail boxes with pictured ads forced down your trought.

Thank you for that insightful analysis of the email situation. You make a good point.

However, what you have simply pointed out is that you are okay with Gmail shoving ads down your throat because you get a bigger mail box out of it.

This is excatly how hegemony works. They have the product to offer and us the customers are often happy to be raped and pillaged for them. This to me sounds more like 'selling our souls' (in this case it is to the "evil Gmail man"). What is so sad about this sad state of affairs is that 'we' are selling our souls literally to Gmail man and not just figuratively.

Besides, Gmail (as I said in my initial comment) is not at all good compared to Yahoo! who are sticking to what they do best.

Here is a tip. Try Yahoo! and you will see what I mean. They have a new and even better upgrade on their already great email system. Gmail now is like Yahoo! 10yrs ago, but only with the video calls added to it.

Gmail did a great job bringing competition to the market, but their email is not at all good, it is clanky, and their strategies are less than scrupulous as shown by this Microsoft ad.

 

[elvis_presley]

Here is a tip. Try Yahoo! and you will see what I mean. They have a new and even better upgrade on their already great email system. Gmail now is like Yahoo! 10yrs ago, but only with the video calls added to it.

Gmail did a great job bringing competition to the market, but their email is not at all good, it is clanky, and their strategies are less than scrupulous as shown by this Microsoft ad.

I'm not familiar with Yahoo! mail, but I know that Microsoft Live Domains have taken over the lead from Google Domains in my mind - Because Google is battling to monetize their hosted domains/apps, they're putting more and more restrictions and basically letting their domains product coast and giving less for free. MS on the other hand make lots of money from their hosted domains/apps and it's constantly improving and they can give more for free. I've moved some of my domains there, and if xname.org ever goddamn fixes their crap, I'll move the rest over. za.net and xname.org are not a winning combination

I applaud Google for innovating HUGELY in a number of areas, but following through long term isn't their strongpoint. Which is a pity, because more competition is good.

 

[MightyMuffinMan]

Personally, I don't see why anyone should have Gmail or Hotmail. It seems to me that we the customers are in the middle of what is a really ugly war between software producers.

I use Yahoo!

WTF, u are using an online e-mail service?

 

[Elimentals]

Thank you for that insightful analysis of the email situation. You make a good point.

However, what you have simply pointed out is that you are okay with Gmail shoving ads down your throat because you get a bigger mail box out of it.

This is excatly how hegemony works. They have the product to offer and us the customers are often happy to be raped and pillaged for them. This to me sounds more like 'selling our souls' (in this case it is to the "evil Gmail man"). What is so sad about this sad state of affairs is that 'we' are selling our souls literally to Gmail man and not just figuratively.

I get what you saying and sometimes also find it kind of funny how we have changed today compaired to the past. Humans overall today do not really care that they have moved from being the customer and how much they of their information they hand out. Yeah I normally have a saying "If you are getting something for free, and that is anything you stop being the customer, you are now the product being sold"

In the same line I found an interesting article in WSJ http://blogs.wsj.com/wtk/

Marketers are spying on Internet users -- observing and remembering people's clicks, and building and selling detailed dossiers of their activities and interests. The Wall Street Journal's What They Know series documents the new, cutting-edge uses of this Internet-tracking technology. The Journal analyzed the tracking files installed on people's computers by the 50 most popular U.S. websites, plus WSJ.com. The Journal also built an "exposure index" -- to determine the degree to which each site exposes visitors to monitoring -- by studying the tracking technologies they install and the privacy policies that guide their use.

You should go hop on over and check it out, it is quite frighting.

As for Yahoo mail, I did try it last year when I was in New Zealand as that is the mail everybody use over their but did not like the spam catcher that much, well when I compare it to what I get in Gmail and I guess I settled for the better the Devil you know vs the one you dont approach which is actually quite sad really.

Edit: WOW, interesting to compare Google to Yahoo in WSJ

http://blogs.wsj.com/wtk/2010/07/30/googlecom/ Google
http://blogs.wsj.com/wtk/2010/07/30/yahoocom/ Yahoo

 

[Viva]

..Gmail shoving ads down your throat because you get a bigger mail box out of it.

Gmail is not shoving ads down people's throats - you agree to Gmail serving you with ads when you sign up for an account. By your logic, almost every website on the internet, including myBroadband.co.za, is shoving ads down people's throats.

This is excatly how hegemony works. They have the product to offer and us the customers are often happy to be raped and pillaged for them. This to me sounds more like 'selling our souls' (in this case it is to the "evil Gmail man"). What is so sad about this sad state of affairs is that 'we' are selling our souls literally to Gmail man and not just figuratively.

How can you expect Google or any other internet company to provide you with a free email service without making any money from the ads? Seeing a contextualized text-based ad every now and then hardly equals "to be raped and pillaged". If anything, these companies are doing us a favour by providing us with high quality services, free of charge, with the only penalty being an unobtrusive ad once in a while.

Besides, Gmail (as I said in my initial comment) is not at all good compared to Yahoo! who are sticking to what they do best.

Here is a tip. Try Yahoo! and you will see what I mean. They have a new and even better upgrade on their already great email system. Gmail now is like Yahoo! 10yrs ago, but only with the video calls added to it.

Many people will simply argue that Gmail is way better when compared to Yahoo, and that Google is in fact sticking to what they do best by continuing to invest in search and email. It's a matter of opinion. I've used Yahoo mail for four years now, and while it is good, I prefer Gmail over Yahoo Mail. Stating that "Gmail now is like Yahoo! 10yrs ago" is just discrediting your argument as it's simply not true.

 

[McCrazieGoalz]

"[Y]ou agree to Gmail serving you with ads when you sign up for an account.

While this may be true, what you seem to be doing is to use this as justification for Google snooping into your messages. There are issues such as internet security with security companies like Kaspersky informing us that 75% of companies experienced internet security issues last year. Now we then allow Google to dip their fingers into our secrets. Collecting catalogues of our life circumstances. Who knows what else they are collecting. The fact actually is, when I sign up with an email service provider, the last thing on my mind is adverts. Sure they come with the service, but, I certainly did not give them permission to tailor make ads by looking through my emails.

How can you expect Google or any other internet company to provide you with a free email service without making any money from the ads?

The answer here is pretty simple; do not resort to violating people's privacy while you do it. Imagine if the South African Post Office starts tailor making adverts for you. Scary thoughts.

If anything, these companies are doing us a favour by providing us with high quality services, free of charge, with the only penalty being an unobtrusive ad once in a while.

It is companies like Google for which new laws are made because of their desperate efforts to out-do their competitors. The fact that (as we have now realised from the MS ad) they use our email messages to tailor make ads for us is just downright creepy. Yes, I have seen that the their ads are more in line with say the kind of work that I do, but, where do we draw the line and does free email mean no privacy? Google definitely seems to agree with this.


The only point that is actually valid in my opinion is the one below.

It's a matter of opinion.

Let us just stick with this. I agree with you on this. Yes, whether Gmail is better than Yahoo! is a matter of opinion.

What is not up for debate however, is the use of snoopy tactics.