Enablers

Well, based on what you say, of course it's wrong, but you don't need us to tell you that.

Of course, situations can have many nooks and crannies, but generally allowing people to hurt themselves to your own profit, can only be a bad thing.

Also, incidentally, how the world works, sadly.
 
Jamal said:
What do you think of people who encourage self-destructive behaviour in others for financial gain?

I think this is despicable. Do you think I am unreasonable for thinking this?

Tonight I had an argument with somebody who enables self-destructive behaviour in a person who is very dear to me for financial gain. Now I feel bad.
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If the person is dear to you, you should never feel bad for standing up for them.

What do you mean someone enables self destructive behaviour for financial gain? Would you care to explain the situation?
 
Jamal said:
There is a person who means a lot to me, but this person unfortunately has a drinking problem. This person's daughter offers to go out and buy the person alcohol in exchange for payment (the daughter has little income of her own). The daughter also encourages the person to drink because then she has more freedom in the house.

The daughter threatened to assault me when I confronted her about her actions. It was a nasty argument. I called her a bitch, a bipolar freak, a borderline personality disorder freak (she has been diagnosed as having both bipolar disorder and borderline personality disorder by a psychiatrist), a hypochondriac loser, and told her she sponges off others because she sits on her lazy behind all day and is too useless to earn her own income.

Now I feel bad.
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Since you put it that way, I would have felt bad as well.

I think you need to apologize for throwing her condition in front of her.
She's not biporal by decision and she can't help her borderline disorder either.

The fact that she does it for payment is wrong and "enabling" her father for freedom is wrong as well, but shouting at her and going argumentative about it won't change anything.

Her condition means she is demotivated to work and it's a way of being she can't change. Until she is on proper medication the demotivation will change into motivation and her life will improve.

Place yourself in her shoes is my word of advice. She's not having a ball, I can guarantee you that.
 
Jamal said:
She actually denies having either bipolar disorder or borderline personality disorder. She is not on medication even though everybody keeps telling her she needs to be. Every time somebody tries to talk to her about it she becomes defensive and denies that she has any of these conditions.

I feel that mentally ill people should take responsibility for their illness. If you are an unmedicated bipolar then your behaviour is your fault.

I would have more sympathy with her if she at least tried to remedy her situation.

She has in the past assaulted people. She once bit her boyfriend and also attacked him with a knife.
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It doesn't matter what she did, I've done worse and I'm a schizophrenic (diagnosed and medicated accordingly).

She's not in control of herself and unfortunately it's going to get worse until she is hospitalized and on meds.
I still think you need to apologize to her, even if you don't have sympathy for her. She is not in control, believe me, she's not.
 
Jamal said:
There is a person who means a lot to me, but this person unfortunately has a drinking problem. This person's daughter offers to go out and buy the person alcohol in exchange for payment (the daughter has little income of her own). The daughter also encourages the person to drink because then she has more freedom in the house.

The daughter threatened to assault me when I confronted her about her actions. It was a nasty argument. I called her a bitch, a bipolar freak, a borderline personality disorder freak (she has been diagnosed as having both bipolar disorder and borderline personality disorder by a psychiatrist), a hypochondriac loser, and told her she sponges off others because she sits on her lazy behind all day and is too useless to earn her own income.

Now I feel bad.
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Well, dude, anger can lead us to say horrid things sometimes, don't beat yourself up about it. Taking advantage of someone's alcoholism is a terrible, terrible thing to do, but this particular situation is really quite hard to pin down depending on your relationship to these people, the age of the daughter, etc, etc.

There's probably no winning for you in this I'm afraid. :(
 
Maybe her father's drinking problem is part of the reason she is this way. Or if the drinking problem is only a recent development, maybe the problem itself is as a result of serious issues he had while raising her which influenced her negatively?
 
Jamal said:
The daughter is my sister and the parent is my mother.
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Aah. Well, in that case I think you are quite entitled to your anger. Although, being proactive about finding a solution trumps insulting (no matter how correct) mud slinging.

Thing is, obviously, the nastier everyone might get, the less chance there is of a solution being found.

At the end of the day though, sadly (and I know this from personal experience); the only way an alcoholic is going to stop being an alcoholic is if they want to. Your sister might be enabling your mother, but your mother would find another way if it was not your sister, I'd think.

What I'm trying to get at, I think, is that it might be easier to blame your sister for your mother's weakness with alcohol, if you know what I mean? Without a doubt the enabling is a terrible thing for your sister to be doing, but at the end of the day it is your mother's choice. In a sense they are enabling each other.
 
Jamal said:
Am I a bad person?
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You are obviously no bad person because you are thinking about what happened and you obviously feel bad about it. Seems you are frustrated with this behavior and you told your opinion in a strong way. That doesn't make a bad person out of you. I think it was right to try open this person eyes.

You will feel better though if you apologize and explain your feelings
 
i'm sorry but an enabler is the worst possible person you can get on the god given planet.

before you actually blast me for my saying this, i would suggest you watch this show called "ruby" on channel 183. ruby weighed over 700 pounds and this was because she was surrounded by people who were enablers. they constantly allowed her to to over endulge in her eating. this also stemmed from her childhood starting with her mother. it was only when she decided to do something about it and surrounded herself with the proper people that she realised what "enabling" was.

it doesn't matter what kind of habits a person has, if there are those who encourage these habits i.e. alcoholics, drug addicts, etc the enablers need to be ashamed of themselves and either go to therapy with the person or take themselves out of that addicts life completely. it doesn't matter what type of habit it is, eating, drinking, drug abuse, it is an addiction.
 
Jamal said:
That is where I am coming from.
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Ah. Point taken :)

But taking responsibility, for ones condition, does not necessarily mean, having to go the chemical route.
I hate psychiatrists with a passion, so I may be a tad biased...
 
Jamal said:
What I meant is that mentally ill people should make use of the opportunities they have to improve their condition. In the case of my sister, she refuses medication and therapy.

I once listened to a show about bipolar disorder on radio. A man phoned in and said he beats his wife when he gets manic, but it's not his fault surely that he behaves this way, that he is a victim of his condition after all.

The psychiatrist responded that no, it is his fault, bipolar disorder is treatable, that he has to take responsibility for his condition, that he cannot use it as an excuse for his behaviour.

That is where I am coming from.
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I do agree to a certain extend. The problem is that people with mental disorders often can't really take responsibility, however, in the case that you mentioned I think it is a stupid excuse. This guy should rather be put in psychiatric ward.
 
Dixie said:
Just wondering. Have you ever been to (visited) a psychiatric ward? It's a scary, and lonely place...
Not trying to be facetious, just curious...
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Certainly not in a government one but 2 very close people ended up in private psychiatric ward whom I visited twice a day every single day. The one person for 3 and 2 weeks, the other one for 1 week. It is a very peaceful place. As I said, this was private hospitalization and can in no way be compared with the places you might be thinking of.
 
teraside said:
It doesn't matter what she did, I've done worse and I'm a schizophrenic (diagnosed and medicated accordingly).

She's not in control of herself and unfortunately it's going to get worse until she is hospitalized and on meds.
I still think you need to apologize to her, even if you don't have sympathy for her. She is not in control, believe me, she's not.
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I strongly a agree,my sister is bipolar and she would just go crazy for stupid things,seriously stupid things.She feels normal but she is not and well to be honest im not sure on how you should advise her for help:(

EDIT: The only reason she got help was after she tried to commit suicide by draining her blood out but luckily her veins collapsed.

Another EDIT: Listen to Copa who I think deserves to win the I pad 2 for his posts on this thread.
 
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Dixie said:
Ah. Point taken :)

But taking responsibility, for ones condition, does not necessarily mean, having to go the chemical route.
I hate psychiatrists with a passion, so I may be a tad biased...
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yes it is. there is a chemical imbalance in the brain and it treatable with medication. this is exactly why we have people in the medical profession who study different fields and come up with solutions.
 
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