For me the tipping point would be something like a real emergency with immdediate far reaching effects that cannot be corrected/reversed ... caused by a power failure ... that will cause disgruntled people to become aggressive/violent, doing things that they would not normally do.
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Eskom must come clean
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For me the tipping point would be something like a real emergency with immdediate far reaching effects that cannot be corrected/reversed ... caused by a power failure ... that will cause disgruntled people to become aggressive/violent, doing things that they would not normally do.
I stand under correction but I don't think any single power station contributes more than 5% of the countries total capacity - and even so - each station consists of 4-6 almost completely independent generation units.
What is more concerning however is if we don't have load shedding and the Eskom network 'trips' then it will take a week to bring the system back online. Entire country with zilch power for a week is not something i want to imagine to vividly...
Moederloos
Honorary Master
Ah, ok.
Sort of like Koeberg 1 and 2 going offline, and half the country being plunged into a month long darkness, with associated looting and burning of politicians*?
* OK, I threw the politician burning in as a wish-list item.
Ah, ok.
Sort of like Koeberg 1 and 2 going offline, and half the country being plunged into a month long darkness, with associated looting and burning of politicians*?
* OK, I threw the politician burning in as a wish-list item.
Jip.
Or that tripping that ambo is talking about. Or ... a right-winger with a bit of savvy, a box of dynamite (or a spanner, nut or bolt ), and a strong enough wish/will to really hurt the Gov ...
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actually not. you have a generator running on gas, the gen makes it's own gas (hydrogen) out of water thus making it's own fuel, well until the water runs out. obviously you have to get the ratios right, and there is no point if it cost you more to produce, so it's aint free
There is plenty that our government could do if they wanted to, or if they weren't so pitifully stupid and incompetent.
For example they could drop all sales and import taxes on solar panels and subsidize 30% (or more) of the cost for anyone looking to become power self-sufficient.
There is plenty of things that could be done, but you'll find that the top government officials houses have power; their convoys don't wait in traffic jams and their kickbacks and business interests continue to produce money despite the power problems. Why should they care?
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Moederloos
Honorary Master
I've noticed a couple of times this week on the way to work that there will be metro cops standing on a highway offramp pulling people over while less than 100 meters up the road the traffic lights are out at the intersection and there is widespread chaos going on. God forbid the metro cops did something useful for the people.
Moederloos
Honorary Master
A politically appointed CEO who the government was warned about as he did not have the technical background like the current CEO or the previous one before him.
Please do your research before you propose wild ideas like that...
Even if you cover your entire roof with with solar panels at a cost of many R100 000 you are going to be unable to power any of the large appliances in the average home. Solar panels are not a viable option to reduce the country's power needs.
Solar powered geysers are however much more efficient at energy conversion and would make a difference in the average home but on their own they do not solve the problem. What is required is a complete change in the consumption attitude of users. For far too long the price of electricity in SA has been so cheap that people have no regard for its wastage. If we put half the effort into energy efficiency that we put into being water conscious then that would make a difference to the problem.
justplain
Expert Member
People here and elsewhere bash the idea that solar power will solve our problems. No , it wont. however it will make a difference.
ok so you wont be able to use your stove and microwave using the solar power, but you will reduce the overall draw you need. geysers use plenty juice during the day and solar would take the load and reduce consumption.
Come on guys, get real every little bit helps and we should be using every resource to help reduce the problem, not sidelining it because it isnt the miracle cure.
It's rather simple. make it building code to include solar. dont make excuses about cost etc. once it's standard its standard and it'll work.the sun is a free resource, lets use the damn thing.
it wont solve the greater problem, but it will make a difference.dont you want to be a more green consumer?
ok so you wont be able to use your stove and microwave using the solar power, but you will reduce the overall draw you need. geysers use plenty juice during the day and solar would take the load and reduce consumption.
Come on guys, get real every little bit helps and we should be using every resource to help reduce the problem, not sidelining it because it isnt the miracle cure.
It's rather simple. make it building code to include solar. dont make excuses about cost etc. once it's standard its standard and it'll work.the sun is a free resource, lets use the damn thing.
it wont solve the greater problem, but it will make a difference.dont you want to be a more green consumer?
Vrotappel
Bulls fan
Agreed - proper insulation for residential buildings should also be included in buliding regulations. This will reduce the use of heaters and air-cons.
You dismiss solar power and then immediately go on to say we need to be more energy efficient. Pray tell what are your ideas are?
No-one ever said solar power was the silver bullet for our power problems, but every little bit helps and it would be sure help a lot more than government sitting on their hands as they are doing now.
So lets here your bright ideas. Stun us with your brilliance.
Moederloos
Honorary Master
More than anything - it will show us guavamint actually cares - if only for their own skin.
Ozymandias
Senior Member
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Looks as though SA's power crisis is going to put the skids on industrial growth.
Shelve new projects, Eskom warns
Coega still in pipeline despite capacity questions
Shelve new projects, Eskom warns
Coega still in pipeline despite capacity questions
Just to clarify - I am dismissing the photo-voltaic cell type of solar panels. Solar geysers are an important step that we should all be taking. I have seen research that indicates that the energy required to make a photo-voltaic cell is more than it can produce in its lifetime
Energy efficiency... here are a few:
- Convert to energy efficient lighting (yes we all know this but there are far too many people are not yet doing it)
- Ditch the air-conditioner. Install proper insulation and design proper convection/natural air flow in buildings
- Ditch the swimming pool - unless its being used regularly. Too many people only use their pools 2 or 3 times a season but run their pool pumps all year
- Install ripple signal switches on geysers. I know some areas have had them for more than 15 years but we need to expand the usage of them
- Use more efficient ways of heating during winter. Rather than space heating an entire house pick living areas that are going to be warm zones that can be closed off from the rest of the house. Curl up in bed with an electric blanket or partner
- Convert to newer, more energy efficient appliances (the appliance shops will love me for this). LCD screens are considerably more energy efficient than their CRT counterparts for example.
- General thriftiness with energy usage. Turn stuff off when you're not there to use it
Thats a start for you - there are others that have popped into my head from time to time... I will post them when I remember them.
boswald
Senior Member
I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a moment...
At least the load shedding gives us a good opportunity to test all the county's backup and disaster management systems well ahead of 2010
We can't even cope in the middle of summer, what happens in winter and what is going to happen at the 2010 world cup? IMO I think they should take the world cup and give it to someone else, I think we could land up with egg on our faces, sad really.
Just to clarify - I am dismissing the photo-voltaic cell type of solar panels. Solar geysers are an important step that we should all be taking. I have seen research that indicates that the energy required to make a photo-voltaic cell is more than it can produce in its lifetime
Energy efficiency... here are a few:
- Convert to energy efficient lighting (yes we all know this but there are far too many people are not yet doing it)
- Ditch the air-conditioner. Install proper insulation and design proper convection/natural air flow in buildings
- Ditch the swimming pool - unless its being used regularly. Too many people only use their pools 2 or 3 times a season but run their pool pumps all year
- Install ripple signal switches on geysers. I know some areas have had them for more than 15 years but we need to expand the usage of them
- Use more efficient ways of heating during winter. Rather than space heating an entire house pick living areas that are going to be warm zones that can be closed off from the rest of the house. Curl up in bed with an electric blanket or partner
- Convert to newer, more energy efficient appliances (the appliance shops will love me for this). LCD screens are considerably more energy efficient than their CRT counterparts for example.
- General thriftiness with energy usage. Turn stuff off when you're not there to use it
Thats a start for you - there are others that have popped into my head from time to time... I will post them when I remember them.
- Convert to energy efficient lighting (yes we all know this but there are far too many people are not yet doing it) - agreed
- Ditch the air-conditioner. Install proper insulation and design proper convection/natural air flow in buildings - not viable. Are we supposed to redesign all existing buildings then? And I dont want my papers flying around my offices thanks.
- Ditch the swimming pool - unless its being used regularly. Too many people only use their pools 2 or 3 times a season but run their pool pumps all year - I am not spending money on redesigning my garden and filling up my pool, essentially de0valuing my property because Eskom and Guavamint cocked up.
- Install ripple signal switches on geysers. I know some areas have had them for more than 15 years but we need to expand the usage of them - agreed
- Use more efficient ways of heating during winter. Rather than space heating an entire house pick living areas that are going to be warm zones that can be closed off from the rest of the house. Curl up in bed with an electric blanket or partner - And let my face freeze? No thank you
- Convert to newer, more energy efficient appliances (the appliance shops will love me for this). LCD screens are considerably more energy efficient than their CRT counterparts for example. - agreed
- General thriftiness with energy usage. Turn stuff off when you're not there to use it - agreed
Please dont try to pass the blame on to the consumer - thats third world country mentality. Your intentions are good, but most suggestions are not viable and certainly wont be followed through by 99% of consumers. The simple answer would have been for Eskom to have forecasted correctly and made their case to guavamint a bit better - if that didnt work, then inform the public that in 5 years time there will certainly be rolling blackouts due to Guavamints decision - consumers must demand (not request) better service delivery in South Africa. Oh, and promote private sector power - as we have seen with the sub-cables, private sector will get thigs done!
ajax
Executive Member
I spoke to a plumber yesterday to ask him what it would roughly cost to convert my geyser to solar power. He said R15 000 but I would end up paying only R5000 due to a government subsidies and insurance covering the rest. I assume insurance will only pay once your current geyser breaks and you want to convert then.
R5000 is not bad, one would be making up the initial capital outlay within a few years perhaps?
R5000 is not bad, one would be making up the initial capital outlay within a few years perhaps?