F1 2013 thread

Vettel fan here, I can understand the comments here, and also understand the team aspect, but what I don't understand is out of +- 67 laps, you are allowed to race 40 of them, if you the unlucky one that's behind your teammate, ohh well tuff ***** mate, you should have made your move 30 laps before the end..... as this is a team sport and we can not have you race the full distance?? what ever!!

GO VETTEL!
 
Vettel fan here, I can understand the comments here, and also understand the team aspect, but what I don't understand is out of +- 67 laps, you are allowed to race 40 of them, if you the unlucky one that's behind your teammate, ohh well tuff ***** mate, you should have made your move 30 laps before the end..... as this is a team sport and we can not have you race the full distance?? what ever!!

GO VETTEL!

Still, If Mark had not dialed his engine down and had pushed all the way, he very well could have been too far ahead for Vettel to catch. But he followed his team orders, thus slowing down his lap time. Long term, those engines need to last! So if the team sees a gap where they dont have to push the engines too hard, its damn good to use it! I will Laugh if nearing the end of this season, Vettel is one engine change more than Webber, compromising his title shot... Karma ...
 
Vettel fan here, I can understand the comments here, and also understand the team aspect, but what I don't understand is out of +- 67 laps, you are allowed to race 40 of them, if you the unlucky one that's behind your teammate, ohh well tuff ***** mate, you should have made your move 30 laps before the end..... as this is a team sport and we can not have you race the full distance?? what ever!!

GO VETTEL!

No, that does suck, but then you have to radio back to your team and say "Tell Mark to forget about the order, I'm going flat out to the end" otherwise it's just taking advantage.
 
3 weeks, noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!! Surely this can't be good for viewership, just getting in to the swing of the new season and now we gotta wait 3 weeks.. Seems illogical to me

I'm happy with it.

Gives McLaren some time to develop their car and put it back on the top order.
 
Hopefully you're not expecting anything to be done about the Vettel/Webber incident? I think you will be disappointed.

I've no doubt harsh words were spoken; Horner and Newey were both probably on the verge of heart attacks. Not that I think it'll make much of an impression on Vettel, but I wouldn't be surprised if we witnessed the complete destruction of any professional working relationship between him and Webber. Of course there won't be any official sanction beyond the team saying that they've 'talked, and reached an understanding'.

Will be interesting to see the degree of understanding between the two when the scenario inevitably repeats.
 
Sebastian Vettel or Mark Webber will quit Red Bull at end of Formula One season, says Flavio Briatore

Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber will not stay together at Red Bull beyond the end of this season, according to Flavio Briatore, who claims to have spoken to the Australian in the aftermath of Sunday’s controversial Malaysian Grand Prix and been told that the relationship is fractured beyond repair.

“I don’t think it can be sewn back together again,” said Briatore, the former Renault team principal who has been a part of Webber’s management throughout his grand prix career.

Asked if he expected either Vettel or Webber to leave Red Bull at the end of this year’s campaign, the Italian replied: “For sure. Last year already there were problems.”

I don't know where either would go though? I doubt Webber will go to Ferrari (as was rumoured last season) as that is very much Alonso's team right now and like heck would Ferrari take Vettel and Alonso. Lotus will struggle to maintain two cars at a high development level, something they've admitted to struggling with this year.
 
I don't know where either would go though? I doubt Webber will go to Ferrari (as was rumoured last season) as that is very much Alonso's team right now and like heck would Ferrari take Vettel and Alonso. Lotus will struggle to maintain two cars at a high development level, something they've admitted to struggling with this year.

Ferrari would take vettel, vettel is contracted until 2014, webber is out of contract after this season so i would imagine mark is gone. Vettel is rumoured to join ferrari 2015 anyhow but for now mark is the one going not vettel. Let's be honest though would redbull have dominated like they have with webber being the best driver? Without vettel would redbull be doing so well? i know everyone thinks it is only about the car but i cannot really imagine webber doing what vettel has done. Perhaps alonso, hamilton etc but redbull found a driver who took their good cars and drove them to victory. Webber in the same machinery at times struggled to finish 2nd let alone in the top 5 at times.

So as much as vettel needed a good car, redbull needed someone to consistently bring it home. I think massa is also out of contract this year so vettel could if redbull didn't want him go to ferrari, webber is a bit too old now to really go to the big teams. Perhaps ferrari but with webbers age is against him. 37 next year i think.
 
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I would like to see vettel with alonso but he is contracted for awhile still so we won't see him moving until 2015.

Vettel + Alonso would be like Hamilton + Alonso or Vettel + Hamilton. The team would have quite a time dealing with the fallout lol. It would be awesome to watch tho!
 
Ferrari would take vettel, vettel is contracted until 2014, webber is out of contract after this season so i would imagine mark is gone. Vettel is rumoured to join ferrari 2015 anyhow but for now mark is the one going not vettel. Let's be honest though would redbull have dominated like they have with webber being the best driver? Without vettel would redbull be doing so well? i know everyone thinks it is only about the car but i cannot really imagine webber doing what vettel has done. Perhaps alonso, hamilton etc but redbull found a driver who took their good cars and drove them to victory. Webber in the same machinery at times struggled to finish 2nd let alone in the top 5 at times.

So as much as vettel needed a good car, redbull needed someone to consistently bring it home. I think massa is also out of contract this year so vettel could if redbull didn't want him go to ferrari, webber is a bit too old now to really go to the big teams. Perhaps ferrari but with webbers age is against him. 37 next year i think.

As has been mentioned, I cannot see Ferrari running two ''Alpha'' drivers. They haven't since Prost-Mansell in 1990 and that was a disaster.

Vettel-Red Bull is the same as Schumacher-Benetton/Ferrari. Sure the car is good, but you only need to compare them to their teammates. And it is thanks to his selfishness and ruthlessness that he is a triple world champion, once again just like Shumacher.

Age is not such a big thing in F1 anymore and Webber is still easily among the top-5 drivers in the sport right now. And fortunately for Webber, there isn't really a young driver tearing it up in the midfield either, with the possible exception of Nico Hulkenberg and maybe one of the Toro Rosso drivers. Even Paul di Resta is being outdone by his 30-year old teammate who has been out of the sport for a season.
 
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The hidden fallout of Vettel's actions

http://plus.autosport.com/premium/feature/5223/the-hidden-fallout-of-vettel-actions/

Sebastian Vettel's decision to ignore his boss's orders during the Malaysian Grand Prix may have more obscure repercussions than just a disappointed team, argues Dieter Rencken

Although the sporting and intra-team ramifications of Sebastian Vettel's decision to race for his own account on Sunday in Malaysia run indelibly deep, Red Bull has been equally wounded at the political level, for rival team bosses have had their suspicions confirmed that no single person calls the shots save, perhaps, for Red Bull founder Dietrich Mateschitz.

Red Bull has long been a political thorn in the side of Formula 1, having been the first team to publicly break ranks over the Resource Restriction Agreement...

Horner is close to Ecclestone as evidenced by the fact that he was F1's sole representative at the F1 tsar's wedding last August and team bosses long suspected that he fed the sport's promoter with inside information from FOTA and team principal meetings.

In fact, at one point team bosses colluded in taking 'dummy' decisions simply to create smokescreens, then sat back and waited for the inevitable reaction.

If Horner was, indeed, FOTA's so-called 'mole', it served RBR well: apart from being offered said preferential terms, when Ecclestone in October flew a kite about budget caps, the figure proposed was $250m a year, excluding marketing costs virtually to the penny RBR's spend during the previous season.

It cannot be coincidental, either, that Red Bull is one of F1's biggest marketers.

All this led rival team bosses to make increasingly snide comments about Red Bull's management, with some referring to Horner as 'Mini Bernie'. Game-playing was very much in evidence: for example, in Malaysia a group of team principals met in full view of RBR's hospitality in the belief that they would be spotted and the absent Ecclestone informed.

According to one it took all of two minutes before Horner was seen on the telephone. "He could, of course, have been calling home" said one with a wink.

... Horner's unpopularity set new standards, for not even former Ferrari boss Jean Todt's hit such lows during the Scuderia's early noughties hegemony...

Yes, the Frenchman was oft derided, but respect, albeit at times grudging, was omnipresent and, above all, Todt managed to keep Ferrari's drivers in check through thick and thin. Therein lies the rub: respect, or rather lack thereof, whether for Red Bull's management, or the team as a whole.

The paddock has long wondered who called the shots at RBR, whether Horner, Dr Helmut Marko (the Austrian jurist/former F1 driver appointed by Mateschitz as Red Bull's motor racing consultant), Newey, or indeed Mateschitz himself. Since Sunday a further name has been added to the list: Sebastian Vettel. In other operations there remains little doubt as to exactly who is boss.

Here Red Bull has only itself to blame, for its actions suggest that within the team overall responsibility is an elastic term. During Max Mosley's reign as FIA president he and Mateschitz went snowboarding, framing the takeover of Minardi (Toro Rosso). Vettel regularly plays backgammon against Ecclestone, who is known to be extremely fond of Sebastian, and certainly came out in his favour in The Sun.

"I don't think [Vettel] undermined Christian's authority at all because Christian knows exactly what should have happened and didn't happen," Ecclestone is quoted as saying. "Put yourself in Christian's position what should he now do? Did he give orders in the first place and, if he did, how could he then give more orders?

Yet, as outlined above, Horner enjoys the closest of relationships with Ecclestone

Apart from Turkey 2010, they had run-ins at Silverstone that year, in Brazil last year (Webber's jostling almost cost Vettel his third title) and again last weekend at Sepang. On Sunday, in a post-race statement, Red Bull said: "It's worth noting that this is not an entirely new situation for us. Each incident has been managed in our own way behind closed doors and this will be no different."

However, Sunday's evidence suggests that the Red Bull 'way' is simply not working which points to a team that operates well when able to call the shots, yet less so when its authority is questioned. Consider Horner's comment when questioned as to why he had not repeated the team instruction for a 'Multi 21' finish in favour of Webber

"Do you honestly think that if we had told him 'slow down and give the place back', he would have given it back? There was no point. He had made it quite clear what his intention was by making the move. He knew what the communication was. He had had the communication. He chose to ignore it."

Which neatly introduces the political angle. With Red Bull's authority clearly in decline and Concorde Agreement negotiations in full swing the weekend in Malaysia saw numerous talks between teams, including a teleconference between finance officers and further budget-cap discussions in the offing, team bosses are relishing the prospect of exploiting the obvious dissention within Red Bull's ranks, between team and driver, between team and commercial rights holder.

"After all," said one, "if the team boss cannot keep his 25-year-old driver in check, why should we take him seriously?" Asked another: "Who is actually the boss?"

Vettel's selfish actions on Sunday may have damaged a lot more than merely his relationship with the team, and for that alone he should be sanctioned beyond a mere talking to.

Read more: http://www.markwebberforum.com/index.cgi?action=recent#ixzz2P6FEo0k0
 
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Mark's engine was tuned down more than Vettel's at the end of the race...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...d-Mark-Webber-cut-power-Sebastian-Vettel.html

Red Bull have admitted that world champion Sebastian Vettel was not told to cut his engine power to the same level as Mark Webber at the end of last weekend's Malaysian Grand Prix.
But the team insist they had not favoured Vettel above his Australian team-mate or that they were happy to see the German ignore orders and snatch victory from Webber.
In the aftermath of the furore over Vettel's behaviour, it was claimed Webber, with the German running behind him, had been told to turn down his engine setting to ensure he did not experience a mechanical mishap.

It was presumed Vettel had received the same instruction on the orders of team principal Christian Horner.
But F1 rights holder Bernie Ecclestone told The Mail on Sunday last week: 'After speaking with Christian, it seems Mark was told to turn down the wick on his engine, but the team didn't tell Sebastian to do the same thing.'
And a Red Bull spokesperson admitted: 'Seb's engine was turned down, but not as much as Mark's due to differing strategies and tyre wear.'
Although Horner told Vettel to stay behind Webber, the German had more horsepower to overtake.

Webber maintained a low profile last week, with no desire to have any contact with Vettel before they meet for the next race in China in 10 days' time, while the German 25-year-old triple world champion was on a charm offensive at Red Bull's HQ in Milton Keynes in midweek to apologise to the workforce for creating worldwide uproar.
Webber's sense of betrayal, after helping to clinch the past three constructors' titles, means he is unlikely to stay with Red Bull when his contract ends this year.
His presence alongside Vettel in the first official media conference in Shanghai a week on Thursday will ensure Red Bull's internecine warfare is the only story in town.

'It can only be a distraction and energy-sapping,' said a team insider.
Yet, as Ecclestone revealed in this paper last week, Webber would have lost his seat to Lewis Hamilton this season had Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz not offered the Australian first refusal on keeping his drive out of loyalty when the 36-year-old had been talking with Ferrari.
'I wouldn't say that Mark was an out and out, 100 per cent Red Bull guy when he was looking to leave the team,' said Ecclestone. 'If he'd have got the drive with Ferrari, he'd have gone. He was lucky to stay, in my opinion.'
Indeed, Webber is not blameless. In the past, he has shown an unwillingness to toe the line, most recently in Brazil as Vettel clinched his third title.
'There's never been any trust between Webber and Vettel, they're not bosom buddies,' added Ecclestone.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...cut-power-Sebastian-Vettel.html#ixzz2P6FY728o
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
 
It all just goes to show that calls of 'it should be about the racing!' are just a tiny bit naive. Perhaps ideally it should be, but it hasn't been for decades. Not quite professional wrestling on wheels, but there's a lot going on behind the scenes.
 
Not quite professional wrestling on wheels, but there's a lot going on behind the scenes.

Best analogy so far :-P

They should change the branding to "like fuel through an injector, these are the races of our lives."
 
They should change the branding to "like fuel through an injector, these are the races of our lives."

:D

It is a bit of a soap. I'll stop watching once they stoop to having different people play the same driver from one season to the next.
 
FIA GT1 are qualifying today. Race is tomorrow. Does anyone know where to watch it live? Not sure if the vid will stream from the official site, I'll see at 2:15 today. This is the best motorsport alongside Euro touring car cup IMO.

http://www.fiagtseries.com/pages/live

[video=youtube;nA1A48y-odg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA1A48y-odg[/video]

This is the Zolder 2012 race... ffwd to 22:00 in for the race start...
McLaren, Merc, Nissan, BMW, Ford, Porche, Lamborghini, Audi, Ferrari...
Some awesome racing.
 
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