F1 2014 thread

[thestaggy]

I've always said that two Alpha drivers on the top of their game cannot co-exist in the same team. McLaren taught that to us years ago with Prost and Senna. Pironi and Villenueve. Coulthard nearly ruined Hakkinen by spinning him at Spa.

People can say what they want about Ferrari and their history of team orders, but they got it right during the Schumacher era. A second driver good enough and fast enough to assist in developing the car and secure solid constructor's points, but never a threat to Michael.

 

[Agent_Smith]

Just reading on PlanetF1.com now about this whole Rosberg/Hamilton saga. It is possible (although perhaps unlikely) that the FIA could get involved here if it came to light that Rosberg deliberately caused an accident. We're talking possible stripping of points here. Was reading this. Decide for yourselves...

Afterwards, in the Mercedes debrief, he said he left his car there to 'prove a point', presumably because he always comes off worst in mano a mano combat with Lewis. But in reality he wasn't remotely close enough to expect any car in front to allow him width through that turn.
The team are acutely aware that it cost them a 1-2 and now we have the post-race 'confession' shenanigans to play out. Because if Rosberg's mindset is that of the envious child, then it brings Monaco swimming starkly back into focus. If he's prepared to let the cars hit each other, then he's obviously of the mindset to park his car at Mirabeau in Qualifying - it wasn't that long after Bahrain.

We may not have seen the end of it yet. Because the FIA can still go back to the race result if they are made aware of information following the race. That's what happened with Alonso vs Vettel at the season finale in 2012 in Brazil where Vettel was thought to have overtaken under yellow flags. He didn't, and everyone at Red Bull breathed out.

This is a story that will be filling the pages from now till Monza.

 

[HapticSimian]

Whilst I think the resident expat's take on it would be hilarious if it wasn't so incredibly sad, it does seem that many people speak out against Lewis because it's somehow fashionable to not like him.

I too would be hopping mad if I were in his position. He is fighting a deficit which exists largely (if not wholly) through no fault of his own. What would the championship standings look like without his DNFs and Rosberg's antics this past Sunday? All the more so because Sunday's tears were the result of Rosberg attempting a maneuver that was never going to come off, and placing his car such that contact would be the inevitable result. Whether deliberate or accidental, it was poor judgement.

It seems Lewis would want a fair title fight regardless of ultimate outcome, whereas Nico's getting starry-eyed at the prospect of the crown, and will do whatever it takes to attain it.

I don't like Britney.

 

[Polish]

It seems Lewis would want a fair title fight regardless of ultimate outcome, whereas Nico's getting starry-eyed at the prospect of the crown, and will do whatever it takes to attain it.

Disagree with this part. Lewis would be the first in line amongst many to take a chance where he can. When he was asked to move over last time he disregarded team orders, and all was fine. NR is fighting just like him. Its obvious that LH is the favourite and now that he's had some bad luck uses that PR angle against his team mate.

You don't see much of that happening in other teams currently, so no, its not the norm.

 

[satanboy]

..he referred to Ricky Januarie ..."that booytjie" i.e. Cape Coloured .....

He may have meant it that way, I dunno. BUT I have heard many people speak like that when they were talking about whites...I think you are looking for racism where it may not be.

 

[thestaggy]

It seems Lewis would want a fair title fight regardless of ultimate outcome, whereas Nico's getting starry-eyed at the prospect of the crown, and will do whatever it takes to attain it.

Schummi and Vettel were and are hardly the nicest guys on the track when it comes to big-boy time. It is also the reason why there are 11 World Championships between them. Senna would also run you hard to win, he was squeezing people up against the wall long before Michael started doing it.

 

[Polish]

There is NO place for racism within this thread. Same as there is no place for it within the sport.

I would appreciate if we can all stick to that.

 

[HapticSimian]

Disagree with this part. Lewis would be the first in line amongst many to take a chance where he can. When he was asked to move over last time he disregarded team orders, and all was fine. NR is fighting just like him. Its obvious that LH is the favourite and now that he's had some bad luck uses that PR angle against his team mate.

This wasn't Nico taking a chance though, it was Nico placing his car where contact would be almost inevitable. He wasn't anywhere near alongside, and he didn't have access to a line that would result in any other outcome unless he backed out the throttle. The bad press is not undeserved.

To my mind there must also be a distinction made between informing drivers of a situation they might not be fully aware of, and asking them to act in the interest of the team, as opposed to issuing a team order that is to the detriment of fair competition.

You don't see much of that happening in other teams currently, so no, its not the norm.

I don't follow.

Schummi and Vettel were and are hardly the nicest guys on the track when it comes to big-boy time. It is also the reason why there are 11 World Championships between them. Senna would also run you hard to win, he was squeezing people up against the wall long before Michael started doing it.

Not really relevant to the weekend's incident though? Lewis was never not ahead; it was Nico's responsibility to give him the space to take his chosen line. He failed.

 

[sand_man]

Whilst I think the resident expat's take on it would be hilarious if it wasn't so incredibly sad, it does seem that many people speak out against Lewis because it's somehow fashionable to not like him.

I too would be hopping mad if I were in his position. He is fighting a deficit which exists largely (if not wholly) through no fault of his own. What would the championship standings look like without his DNFs and Rosberg's antics this past Sunday? All the more so because Sunday's tears were the result of Rosberg attempting a maneuver that was never going to come off, and placing his car such that contact would be the inevitable result. Whether deliberate or accidental, it was poor judgement.

It seems Lewis would want a fair title fight regardless of ultimate outcome, whereas Nico's getting starry-eyed at the prospect of the crown, and will do whatever it takes to attain it.

I don't like Britney.

100% correct!!

If my teammate took me out on the 2nd lap of a race I would also be bitching about it!! Who wouldn't?!?!

Rosberg's a t wat with a massive sense of entitlement (his whining that Hamilton wasn't letting him pass in the Hungarian GP) and a penchant to making "driver errors" at the most inopportune time for his teammate (Monte Carlo qualifying and 2nd lap manoeuvre in the Belgian GP)....

 

[vinodh]

I read through the last couple of pages of this thread and was surprised at the so-called racism towards Hamilton. Bottom line is that just about everyone here acknowledges that Hamilton is an amazing talent and is a naturally quick driver. I thinkthat he is one of a small handful of cut-and-thrust drivers left that has the killer instinct to make it in F1. He reminds of Senna in the way that he drives so aggressively and quickly but at the same time is very emotional and prone to getting involved in off-track incidents.

I rate him on par with Alonso in pure speed and will never forget his never-say-die attitude with that dog of a car, the 2009 Mclaren. I'm a huge Hamilton fan and I don't enjoy watching struggle with car failures through no fault of his own. However, I also believe in calling a spade, a spade. He is driver that speaks out and is quite often not popular with some fans as well as moaning like a girl about things that he should't bother himself about.

This attitude amongst fans to dislike Hamilton's behavior has nothing to do with racism. Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Vettel etc had similar issues on their way to the World titles and no one talked about racism. Now that Hamilton does the exact same things that those guys did, then it's automatically racism? Time to put back the race card in your pocket and maybe save it for another day.

 

[ph4t3]

Anyone watched "Formula 1: Tales from the vault" yet?

 

[ph4t3]

I read through the last couple of pages of this thread and was surprised at the so-called racism towards Hamilton. Bottom line is that just about everyone here acknowledges that Hamilton is an amazing talent and is a naturally quick driver. I thinkthat he is one of a small handful of cut-and-thrust drivers left that has the killer instinct to make it in F1. He reminds of Senna in the way that he drives so aggressively and quickly but at the same time is very emotional and prone to getting involved in off-track incidents.

I rate him on par with Alonso in pure speed and will never forget his never-say-die attitude with that dog of a car, the 2009 Mclaren. I'm a huge Hamilton fan and I don't enjoy watching struggle with car failures through no fault of his own. However, I also believe in calling a spade, a spade. He is driver that speaks out and is quite often not popular with some fans as well as moaning like a girl about things that he should't bother himself about.

This attitude amongst fans to dislike Hamilton's behavior has nothing to do with racism. Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Vettel etc had similar issues on their way to the World titles and no one talked about racism. Now that Hamilton does the exact same things that those guys did, then it's automatically racism? Time to put back the race card in your pocket and maybe save it for another day.

+1. Well said

 

[JerryMungo]

This attitude amongst fans to dislike Hamilton's behavior has nothing to do with racism.

True, they suffer from the same emotional issues as he does, except theirs is borne out of their emotional commitment as a spectator his is borne out of emotional commitment to taking part.

 

[Polish]

True, they suffer from the same emotional issues as he does, except theirs is borne out of their emotional commitment as a spectator his is borne out of emotional commitment to taking part.

Lol, as we all do here it seems.

 

[Agent_Smith]

Just reading on PlanetF1.com now about this whole Rosberg/Hamilton saga. It is possible (although perhaps unlikely) that the FIA could get involved here if it came to light that Rosberg deliberately caused an accident. We're talking possible stripping of points here. Was reading this. Decide for yourselves...

Ok, looks like he's going to escape any further sanction...

From Planetf1.com

The FIA has confirmed that the Nico Rosberg-Lewis Hamilton collision at Spa is a closed case.

Race stewards decided not to take action against Rosberg after he hit Hamilton on lap two on Sunday, but there was talk that the FIA could punish the German retrospectively after Hamilton claimed his Mercedes team-mate admitted during a post-race team meeting that he deliberately crashed into him.

"He said he did it on purpose, he said he could have avoided it. He said 'I did it to prove a point," Hamilton said.

Mercedes motorsport boss Toto Wolff, though, felt Rosberg's comments were misinterpreted saying: "They agreed to disagree in a very heated discussion amongst ourselves, but it wasn't deliberately crashing. That is nonsense."

However, The Telegraph reports that the matter is closed as far as the FIA is concerned as no "new evidence" has come to light since Sunday.

"The FIA will not intervene in this issue," a spokesman said. "Only a 'new element' that would have appeared after the results became final could justify us opening an investigation. A comment alleged to have been made in an internal briefing and later denied by the team itself does not constitute such a 'new element'."

 

[Polish]

Thank you, this confirms that from a technical compliance perspective it was legit.

Knowing how the FIA love to hand out fines it would have happened already.

 

[thestaggy]

Not really relevant to the weekend's incident though? Lewis was never not ahead; it was Nico's responsibility to give him the space to take his chosen line. He failed.

In your original comment you said ''Nico's getting starry-eyed at the prospect of the crown, and will do whatever it takes to attain it.'', which sounds exactly like some of the more aggressive and ruthless champions of the past. Michael was willing to crash into Villeneuve to win a championship.

 

[HapticSimian]

In your original comment you said ''Nico's getting starry-eyed at the prospect of the crown, and will do whatever it takes to attain it.'', which sounds exactly like some of the more aggressive and ruthless champions of the past. Michael was willing to crash into Villeneuve to win a championship.

And Hill... but then Michael was an insufferable bell-end more often than not.

Be that as it may, that's not quite the implication I was aiming for. Rather, I would hazard that Nico will happily punt Lewis off the track in every remaining race if he could do so without sanction. I don't think that's a mindset that should be rewarded. If I were Toto I'd only bolt three wheels on his car in Monza.

 

[thestaggy]

And Hill... But then Michael was an insufferable bell-end more often than not.

Be that as it may, that's not quite the implication I was aiming for. Rather, I would hazard that Nico will happily punt Lewis off the track in every remaining race if he could do so without sanction. I don't think that's a mindset that should be rewarded. If I were Toto I'd only bolt three wheels on his car in Monza.

Seven time world champion though, so whatever he done was effective. The driver that accepts second place isn't going to win the race. Multi-21 is for losers.

I'd agree that Nico was getting into fisticuffs a little too early, but a nice chap isn't going to win the championship against a driver like Lewis, who can be just as aggressive.

 

[Polish]

I'd agree that Nico was getting into fisticuffs a little too early, but a nice chap isn't going to win the championship against a driver like Lewis, who can be just as aggressive.

In which case the team bosses expectations and assumptions of behaviour and resulting attitude also warrants amendment.