F1 2022

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Pixies said:
The trouble is that when the sport was at it's peak, there was so much innovation. We see so little of it these days... and when we do, it's locked away.
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F1 hasn't been road relevant in decades, pretending it is with this hybrid crap is a detriment at best and deadly at worst to the sport. The cars are far too expensive, too big and too heavy to cater for the hybrid power units.

Switch to turbo v6 using sustainable fuels and get on with it, it's the only long term option to keep the show going. Future of road is electric, F1 cannot be electric.

Making the engines simpler and cheaper along with a budget cap will result in greater interest from new teams as well. The whole hybrid "saving the planet" argument is also ridiculous, the cars use a tiny fraction of the amount of fuel the teams use just to transport all the stuff around, nevermind the fuel of moving 50+ people around the world.

/rant
 
Dave said:
I can't believe I'm agreeing with Horner. The current penny pinching policies are stifling innovation in F1 imo.

www.planetf1.com

"Seven teams would need to miss four races to fit budget cap" says Christian Horner

Christian Horner says more than two thirds of the grid may have to miss the final four races this season if they were to meet the budget cap.
www.planetf1.com www.planetf1.com
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I think I see what's happening here. Horner has blown his budget in the first quarter with their car. Now he's seeing Ferrari bring upgrades and Merc bring upgrades and he's antsy to stay ahead. He is broke.
 
There are 2 aspects of the cost cap that seem vague / not covered:

1. Salaries are included in the cap, but not bonuses. If there is no rules to prevent it, salaries can simply be moved over to bonus... Yay. Cap is less of a burden.

2. Some teams develop and build engines. They also sell these engines to other teams. Surely the costs associated with this is significantly higher for the teams who build their own engines?
 
Another option would be to let teams exceed their cap for 2022, but then their 2023 cap is reduced by this amount.

So a bit like an overdraft in your bank account: keeps the show going and gives other teams a chance to get to the top in the following seasons.
 
deesef said:
There are 2 aspects of the cost cap that seem vague / not covered:

1. Salaries are included in the cap, but not bonuses. If there is no rules to prevent it, salaries can simply be moved over to bonus... Yay. Cap is less of a burden.

2. Some teams develop and build engines. They also sell these engines to other teams. Surely the costs associated with this is significantly higher for the teams who build their own engines?
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Engine development costs don't fall under the cost cap. Also, in Merc's case, they are 2 separate entities involved. The F1 team (equally owned by Daimler, Ineos and Toto) and the engine side - HPP - thats fully owned by Daimler. HPP supply the engines to the F1 team but since its a works team, the costs would be $0 (same would apply to Ferrari, Alpine and possibly RB). If you are a customer, I do recall that there was an agreement to limit the costs that a suppler can charge for engines.
 
Jean Claude Vaaldamme said:
Any business should plan for unforeseen circumstances, you know that, don't you?
But we have seen you making mistakes on a regular basis?
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They do, don't you know that? It's called the budget they all need to stick too. But crashes cost and these would, in all likelihood, be seen as unforseen.
They might budget $5 million for crashes and breakdowns for the year for instance, but when they're suddenly at $8 million 9 races in, where do you think they get the over-budget $3 million from? Can't just pull more in, so they take it from somewhere else.

There...simple, and logical. Easy for you to understand. I even broke it down to a level you could POSSIBLY understand.
 
Dave said:
So you're such a big F1 fan you'd be happy for this to happen?

‘Seven teams would need to miss four races to fit budget cap’​

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Dave, I wouldn't even bother with the guy to be honest. Can't understand simple economics.
 
Jean Claude Vaaldamme said:
Any business should plan for unforeseen circumstances, you know that, don't you?
But we have seen you making mistakes on a regular basis?
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Or, they're allowed x-amount of replacement engines and replacement parts for the year. All budgeted for, but then they lose more engines. Another example.
 
OhYeah84 said:
Dave, I wouldn't even bother with the guy to be honest. Can't understand simple economics.
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He also doesn't understand the penalties that can be incurred, a >5% overspend can incur the penalty of exclusion from the entire world championship for the team.

Jean Claude Vaaldamme said:
OH the drama. I am sure there will be some penalties involved, just like with engines, gearboxes etc.
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"OH the drama" indeed.

www.formula1.com

2021 F1 financial rules and regulations: What is the cost cap and how will it be enforced? | Formula 1®

One of the key pillars of the revolutionary new 2021 Formula 1 regulations is the financial rules – the first time in the championship’s history that such rules have been enshrined…
www.formula1.com www.formula1.com

There are three categories of potential breaches. The first is a procedural breach, such as a team submitting their accounts late or inaccurately. The second is a minor overspend breach, when a team’s report shows they have exceeded the cost cap by less than 5 percent or the Cost Cap Administration finds they have exceeded that percentage. The third is a material overspend breach, where a team’s submission of their accounts or an investigation by the panel shows they have exceeded the cost cap by more than 5 percent.

Once a breach has been identified, three forms of penalty are possible. The first is a financial penalty. The value of the fine will be determined on a case-by-case basis. The second is a minor sporting penalty which could be a combination of a reprimand, deduction of constructors and/or drivers points, a ban for a certain number of races, limitations on testing – both CFD and on-track – and/or a reduction of their cost cap.

The third is the material sporting penalty, which is the most serious as it can involve all of the above plus exclusion from the World Championship.
 
Dave said:
He also doesn't understand the penalties that can be incurred, a >5% overspend can incur the penalty of exclusion from the entire world championship for the team.



"OH the drama" indeed.

www.formula1.com

2021 F1 financial rules and regulations: What is the cost cap and how will it be enforced? | Formula 1®

One of the key pillars of the revolutionary new 2021 Formula 1 regulations is the financial rules – the first time in the championship’s history that such rules have been enshrined…
www.formula1.com www.formula1.com

There are three categories of potential breaches. The first is a procedural breach, such as a team submitting their accounts late or inaccurately. The second is a minor overspend breach, when a team’s report shows they have exceeded the cost cap by less than 5 percent or the Cost Cap Administration finds they have exceeded that percentage. The third is a material overspend breach, where a team’s submission of their accounts or an investigation by the panel shows they have exceeded the cost cap by more than 5 percent.

Once a breach has been identified, three forms of penalty are possible. The first is a financial penalty. The value of the fine will be determined on a case-by-case basis. The second is a minor sporting penalty which could be a combination of a reprimand, deduction of constructors and/or drivers points, a ban for a certain number of races, limitations on testing – both CFD and on-track – and/or a reduction of their cost cap.

The third is the material sporting penalty, which is the most serious as it can involve all of the above plus exclusion from the World Championship.
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Hell, I might have made a mistake or 2 here (who's counting), but I sure know a budget and what unforeseen costs can do to one.
 
Dave said:
He also doesn't understand the penalties that can be incurred, a >5% overspend can incur the penalty of exclusion from the entire world championship for the team.



"OH the drama" indeed.

www.formula1.com

2021 F1 financial rules and regulations: What is the cost cap and how will it be enforced? | Formula 1®

One of the key pillars of the revolutionary new 2021 Formula 1 regulations is the financial rules – the first time in the championship’s history that such rules have been enshrined…
www.formula1.com www.formula1.com

There are three categories of potential breaches. The first is a procedural breach, such as a team submitting their accounts late or inaccurately. The second is a minor overspend breach, when a team’s report shows they have exceeded the cost cap by less than 5 percent or the Cost Cap Administration finds they have exceeded that percentage. The third is a material overspend breach, where a team’s submission of their accounts or an investigation by the panel shows they have exceeded the cost cap by more than 5 percent.

Once a breach has been identified, three forms of penalty are possible. The first is a financial penalty. The value of the fine will be determined on a case-by-case basis. The second is a minor sporting penalty which could be a combination of a reprimand, deduction of constructors and/or drivers points, a ban for a certain number of races, limitations on testing – both CFD and on-track – and/or a reduction of their cost cap.

The third is the material sporting penalty, which is the most serious as it can involve all of the above plus exclusion from the World Championship.
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You do realize that this link I posted?
It clearly gives many options for penalties, not just your doomsday drama. Do you really think a multi billion dollar organisation will suspend 7 teams form competing or remove them from the championship?

If the only penalty was say, financial, then the rich teams would not be scared of it and go 200% over budget. If there are penalties like points or exclusion, they would be more cautious.
 
OhYeah84 said:
Hell, I might have made a mistake or 2 here (who's counting), but I sure know a budget and what unforeseen costs can do to one.
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This post will be the last to you regarding budget. I just cant anymore.
If you suddenly one month have a huge unexpected plumbing bill that's out of your budget. Do you go to your employer and say they must pay you more so you can have a bigger budget, or do you eat 2 min noodles the rest of the month(take from somewhere else)?
 
Jean Claude Vaaldamme said:
This post will be the last to you regarding budget. I just cant anymore.
If you suddenly one month have a huge unexpected plumbing bill that's out of your budget. Do you go to your employer and say they must pay you more so you can have a bigger budget, or do you eat 2 min noodles the rest of the month(take from somewhere else)?
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OK, so you're paraphrasing what I said. Congrats to you as it shows a small measure of understanding.

Now, go a bit further and realise the impact of taking from 1 budget to give to another. Or breaching the budget via the various penalties outlined above.

...you're getting there...slowly.
 
Jean Claude Vaaldamme said:
This post will be the last to you regarding budget. I just cant anymore.
If you suddenly one month have a huge unexpected plumbing bill that's out of your budget. Do you go to your employer and say they must pay you more so you can have a bigger budget, or do you eat 2 min noodles the rest of the month(take from somewhere else)?
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And no...I don't owe much on my house so it'll come out of the home loan if I can't afford it myself. So there...
 
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