F1 2023

[lkpat]

To be fair, all the modern greats had that.

Ayrton Senna blocked Lotus from signing the highly rated Derek Warwick when John Player wanted a British driver in the second seat. Senna claimed Lotus couldn't support two good drivers, so he used the clause in his contract that allowed him to veto the choice for the second seat. Lotus instead signed Johnny Dumfries, who unsurprisingly drove like a granny, and Warwick never got to drive a car worthy of his potential.

Piquet had a clause that made him #1 at Williams and then he proceeded to throw his toys out when Williams didn't honour that and allowed Mansell (ostensibly the #2 driver) to fight him. When he signed for Lotus in 1988, the contract included undisputed #1 status. After joining Benetton, Piquet would later be rumoured to have lobbied in favour of Benetton retaining the slower Roberto Moreno and not giving the #2 seat to a young German by the name of Michael Schumacher who was looking mightily impressive.

Mansell walked away from Williams at the end of 1992 partly because Frank Williams wouldn't meet his financial demands and partly because they signed Prost. Mansell held a grudge against Prost going back to their Ferrari years where Prost played politics and undermined his position within the team. He also claims Frank promised him undisputed #1 status and Prost joining ensured that wasn't the case.

When Prost signed for Williams in 1993, it included a clause that prevented them from signing Senna, who was keen to join and whom Frank wanted. Frank wasn't willing to extend the clause for 1994 and so Prost walked away when Williams signed Senna.

IMO having your pick of your number two is not quite the same as saying they have to move aside to allow you to win.

You can bet your bottom dollar that Hamilton was being consulted on the second seat when Rosberg retired, and Max will almost certainly have a say on who joins him at Red Bull.

Being consulted... again, speculation, but he's raced alongside 3 world champs and beaten them all.
Michael, Verstappen? Not so much... unless you count Rosberg who would later become champ. Rosberg beat Michael every year at Mercedes.

 

[lkpat]

Nyck de Vries sacked by AlphaTauri; Ricciardo makes sensational F1 return

Nyck de Vries has parted ways with AlphaTauri after just 10 rounds completed of the 2023 Formula One season. The Dutch driver has had a...

www.pitdebrief.com

Not too sure of the veracity but Twitter is popping off about it at the moment.

Sensational is a bit of a stretch. It's not possible to make a sensational return when it's in that seat.
Nah, Red Bull are pillocks for ditching drivers mid season.
Alpha are little more than a second budget for RB IMO.

 

[FlashSA]

Perez better sort himself out now, or else he'll be breaking news at the end of this year.

Red Bull don't take k_k. Perform or you're out.

Yes, 10 races probably wasn't enough time for de Vries, but there wasn't really a glimmer of improvement from him.

 

[Goosfrabba]

Conor Moore's evil Ricciardo character impression is getting a plot twist

 

[lkpat]

Perez better sort himself out now, or else he'll be breaking news at the end of this year.

Red Bull don't take k_k. Perform or you're out.

Yes, 10 races probably wasn't enough time for de Vries, but there wasn't really a glimmer of improvement from him.

Well to be fair, their record isn't great for fans of the guys they replace.

 

[MuterOfWorlds]

Perez better sort himself out now, or else he'll be breaking news at the end of this year.

Red Bull don't take k_k. Perform or you're out.

Yes, 10 races probably wasn't enough time for de Vries, but there wasn't really a glimmer of improvement from him.

Honestly, kinda expected Perez to go first, he (DR) was lined up as RB reserve afterall, not the other team, I dunno...

 

[lkpat]

Honestly, kinda expected Perez to go first

It's coming.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

Perez better sort himself out now, or else he'll be breaking news at the end of this year.

Red Bull don't take k_k. Perform or you're out.

Yes, 10 races probably wasn't enough time for de Vries, but there wasn't really a glimmer of improvement from him.

Just Marko doing kak Marko things. They want to replace a guy who's second in the driver's championship, then they'll be back to the days of struggling to find a second driver and relying on Max to singlehandedly win the constructors...

 

[Pineapple Smurf]

Very good valid point @lkpat
I'm no expert on F1 but I do not recall any past member making a massive comeback
Correct me if I am wrong
ex. Even Schumi couldn't

 

[FlashSA]

It's coming.

Not if he sorts himself out. For Horner, a performing Perez is a better number 2 than bringing in DR. Max is at his peak and only getting better. Give him the car and he'll win every race. Perez needs to finish top 3 to keep RB well ahead for the constructors.

I've said it several times: Horner doesn't want 2 Alpha Males in his team again. Max is his guy. But if Perez doesn't come right, Marko may force the issue and move DR across.

But first, DR needs to get that tractor into the points.....

 

[lkpat]

Very good valid point @lkpat
I'm no expert on F1 but I do not recall any past member making a massive comeback
Correct me if I am wrong
ex. Even Schumi couldn't

Nikki Lauda
Alain Prost

Both won the WC before and on comeback. Just shows you how special a record it actually is. No doubt it involved driving for the right team.

 

[lkpat]

Not if he sorts himself out. For Horner, a performing Perez is a better number 2 than bringing in DR. Max is at his peak and only getting better. Give him the car and he'll win every race. Perez needs to finish top 3 to keep RB well ahead for the constructors.

I've said it several times: Horner doesn't want 2 Alpha Males in his team again. Max is his guy. But if Perez doesn't come right, Marko may force the issue and move DR across.

But first, DR needs to get that tractor into the points.....

It sounds like it's a very long shot for him based on the car from what I've read, but agree, if he can at least beat Ferrari, Merc and Aston (and now Macca), he'll be good.

 

[dotdan]

Wow couldn't believe the news this morning. I really thought they would announce this during the summer break. Nothing to lose really as De Vries has 0 points so might as well give DR a shot and see if he can do anything with the car.

But ja this does kind off give Perez a written warning in a way. Either start performing as the 2nd driver or DR will replace you in 2024. Makes sense to give DR some time back on the grid to perhaps get him race ready for 2024.

Is Alpha Tauri still getting some upgrades this year? Man that car is dog shyte.

 

[lkpat]

Wow couldn't believe the news this morning. I really thought they would announce this during the summer break. Nothing to lose really as De Vries has 0 points so might as well give DR a shot and see if he can do anything with the car.

But ja this does kind off give Perez a written warning in a way. Either start performing as the 2nd driver or DR will replace you in 2024. Makes sense to give DR some time back on the grid to perhaps get him race ready for 2024.

Is Alpha Tauri still getting some upgrades this year? Man that car is dog shyte.

The Alfa upgrades are going to Redbull

 

[Harold_Crick]

IMO having your pick of your number two is not quite the same as saying they have to move aside to allow you to win.

Alain Prost literally got Ferrari to give him Mansell's chassis without informing Mansell. Mansell figured it out himself when he realised the car didn't feel the same and started asking questions.

Ayrton Senna robbed Derek Warwick of what would have been the best drive of his career.

Mansell and Prost chose to quit/retire rather than race against an equal driver.

And as I elaborated in another post, you people are way, way, WAY over-exaggerating the ''move aside'' stuff. Michael rinsed his teammates and over the course of his career you could count on one hand the amount of times one of his teammates had to give him a position. Only one race win was ever handed to Michael and that was the infamous 2002 Austrian GP.

And if we want to keep on pretending that only Michael benefitted from this, Sochi 2018.

 

[dotdan]

Yeah it should be very interesting to see if he can match Yuki or perhaps out perform him. Perhaps that car is not as bad as it looks and the drivers are not that good. RB really has the opportunity here to really test Yuki's future here as well.

I still think this does not have so much to do with De Vries but rather Perez. If DR matches Yuki or does better, you can almost be assured that Perez is out come 2024.

 

[FlashSA]

Am I right or wrong here: Yuki's shortcomings have been glossed over because of his nationality and "rewarding Honda" by having a Japanese driver in a Honda engined car. That's how I have seen it. Now with Honda's relationship with RB coming to an end at the end of 2025, if DR does indeed run rings around Yuki, it could spell the beginning of the end for him too.

(And before I am corrected on the Honda involvement thing, Honda still provides assistance to Red Bull with the current engine freeze)

 

[Pineapple Smurf]

 

[Mzezman]

Am I right or wrong here: Yuki's shortcomings have been glossed over because of his nationality and "rewarding Honda" by having a Japanese driver in a Honda engined car. That's how I have seen it. Now with Honda's relationship with RB coming to an end at the end of 2025, if DR does indeed run rings around Yuki, it could spell the beginning of the end for him too.

(And before I am corrected on the Honda involvement thing, Honda still provides assistance to Red Bull with the current engine freeze)

Word on the streets is that Nyck couldn’t match Yuki even in the simulator runs. So yes while Yuki isn’t lighting up the timing and points charts he was better than Nyck

Honda is also returning to F1 with Aston so Yuki could go with them there

 

[dotdan]

Am I right or wrong here: Yuki's shortcomings have been glossed over because of his nationality and "rewarding Honda" by having a Japanese driver in a Honda engined car. That's how I have seen it. Now with Honda's relationship with RB coming to an end at the end of 2025, if DR does indeed run rings around Yuki, it could spell the beginning of the end for him too.

(And before I am corrected on the Honda involvement thing, Honda still provides assistance to Red Bull with the current engine freeze)

Yes I think you are right, also Yuki was only 20 when he started a few years ago, so I think they allowed him more time to grow whereas De Vries is 28 and a veteran champion driver in the other divisions so he should have slotted in and really have been the number 1 driver there from the get go.