F1 2023

Which team will take constructors in 2023?

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Craig_ said:
Tbh the points deficit is only because one of the amr drivers is a retard. Strollovich should have been kicked out long ago if amr wanted to be competitive against the two brilliant merc drivers.
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Sure, that's a performance problem in the driver department. Performance isn't just a hardware issue. You have car, driver, engineering team, strategy team....
 
Can we just take a moment to appreciate Max pulling over 4 seconds on Perez over a single lap. I haven't compared the onboards, but I don't think traffic was a major factor for either, so that is a NETT skill deficit.

Some are saying Perez adhered to the call to save the inters and Max didn't, but even if that is true, it ain't 4 seconds in 1 lap difference!

I've also seen a stat thrown around that Perez's fastest inter lap was slower than Max's slowest inter lap. But I have not fact checked.
 
Mike Hoxbig said:
It's turning into cricket. Slight bit of rain and play must stop. Problem is there's no self control anymore, it's flat out or nothing. When conditions change you have to drive within the limits of those conditions. Drivers from bygone eras understood that, they don't anymore...
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You are all forgetting that Zhou had gone off at turn 1 before the red flag was thrown. Lots of cars went off there over the weekend. Zhou's car had to be cleared and the barriers fixed. Together with the rain, red flag decision was justified.
 
FlashSA said:
Can we just take a moment to appreciate Max pulling over 4 seconds on Perez over a single lap. I haven't compared the onboards, but I don't think traffic was a major factor for either, so that is a NETT skill deficit.

Some are saying Perez adhered to the call to save the inters and Max didn't, but even if that is true, it ain't 4 seconds in 1 lap difference!

I've also seen a stat thrown around that Perez's fastest inter lap was slower than Max's slowest inter lap. But I have not fact checked.
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I only recall Perez pulling 7 seconds a lap on Max when he switched to inters. I may be biased.
 
FlashSA said:
Can we just take a moment to appreciate Max pulling over 4 seconds on Perez over a single lap. I haven't compared the onboards, but I don't think traffic was a major factor for either, so that is a NETT skill deficit.

Some are saying Perez adhered to the call to save the inters and Max didn't, but even if that is true, it ain't 4 seconds in 1 lap difference!

I've also seen a stat thrown around that Perez's fastest inter lap was slower than Max's slowest inter lap. But I have not fact checked.
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I've seen the Peter Windsor video where he shows this - he's usually on point. All the talk before the RB pit stops for softs was that more rain was incoming. It could be that Max was doing his own thing - ignoring the team's orders (not the first time). Then again, Perez's excuse of saving tyres is not the first - did the same for the sprint race in Austria and finished about 20 seconds behind Max.
 
Mike Hoxbig said:
The complaining is not about the tyres, it's about visibility. Even if they put the wets on they still wouldn't be able to see. Not sure what the point of wets is then, and how they drove in the rain 20+ years ago...
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They're (wets) basically too good for their own good. Their efficiency at clearing water, coupled with the added effects of the massive downforce (notably the ground effects) results in a level of visibility issue drivers in the past didn't have to deal with.

F1 is also a lot more risk averse than they were even 10-years ago, especially in the wet in light of what happened to Jules Bianchi. If a car goes off in the wet, they're icing the race for fear of something worse happening.
 
Harold_Crick said:
They're (wets) basically too good for their own good. Their efficiency at clearing water, coupled with the added effects of the massive downforce (notably the ground effects) results in a level of visibility issue drivers in the past didn't have to deal with.

F1 is also a lot more risk averse than they were even 10-years ago, especially in the wet in light of what happened to Jules Bianchi. If a car goes off in the wet, they're icing the race for fear of something worse happening.
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So essentially you're arguing that F1 is in a worse position than it was before completely as a result of their own making?
 
Yes, it's a danger to drive in the wet but man, that is when the race becomes alive and really test the driver's abilities and concentration. Tough call - you want to ensure people's safety but also want to produce a spectacle. What is the solution?
 
if you cant see, you cant race. doesnt matter how good you are

And F1 are working on a solution, like always .....
 
marbro said:
if you cant see, you cant race. doesnt matter how good you are

And F1 are working on a solution, like always .....
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Reminds me of that scene in Django and the issue with the eyeholes in the bags.
I can't see, you can't see, what matters is that the f*^&%!$ horse can see. :ROFL: Maybe install infra-red/sonar cams on the cars.
 
Werner1975 said:
Yes, it's a danger to drive in the wet but man, that is when the race becomes alive and really test the driver's abilities and concentration. Tough call - you want to ensure people's safety but also want to produce a spectacle. What is the solution?
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Drive in the wet, disable DRS and limit the speeds by an additional 80km/h. Call it an Orange flag.
Also have some way to determine what becomes a dangerous state for driving. Like a light meter for cricket.

I remembered the Russian GP from a few years ago when Norris nearly won in the wet. That was a lot of rain that day.
 
OhYeah84 said:
Drive in the wet, disable DRS and limit the speeds by an additional 80km/h. Call it an Orange flag.
Also have some way to determine what becomes a dangerous state for driving. Like a light meter for cricket.

I remembered the Russian GP from a few years ago when Norris nearly won in the wet. That was a lot of rain that day.
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I have it on good authority that V10s behave better in the rain.
 
OhYeah84 said:
Drive in the wet, disable DRS and limit the speeds by an additional 80km/h. Call it an Orange flag.
Also have some way to determine what becomes a dangerous state for driving. Like a light meter for cricket.

I remembered the Russian GP from a few years ago when Norris nearly won in the wet. That was a lot of rain that day.
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The problem with this is reducing the speeds by a meaningful amount will just cause the tyres to get cold, exacerbating the situation. If Pirelli developed a tyre that could get up to temp at slow speeds it could work, but not on the current tyres. Also, I'm not sure how much racing would happen then. I guess it would be a test of skill in terms of braking, not locking, throttle application etc. But I think it would be boring to watch F1 cars go around the track at low revs and no speed.
 
UrBaN963 said:
But I think it would be boring to watch F1 cars go around the track at low revs and no speed.
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Can't say I've ever heard Martin Brundle comment 'x' is tip-toeing around the track and thought BORRRRRRING or that they should all pull into the pit lane and wait for sun.
 
quovadis said:
Can't say I've ever heard Martin Brundle comment 'x' is tip-toeing around the track and thought BORRRRRRING or they should all pull into the pit lane and wait for sun.
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I was meaning specifically in a situation where speed limits are imposed and tyres don't work. Drivers going slowly in the rain because they have to due to grip etc. is one situation. Having it imposed might limit the fun.

Best solution would be to kill DRS, develop a system to reduce spray (tyre guards maybe, less ground effect, etc.) and making it possible to race more safely. Not sure of the best solution, but I do wish they'd get back to racing in the rain.
 
UrBaN963 said:
I was meaning specifically in a situation where speed limits are imposed and tyres don't work. Drivers going slowly in the rain because they have to due to grip etc. is one situation. Having it imposed might limit the fun.

Best solution would be to kill DRS, develop a system to reduce spray (tyre guards maybe, less ground effect, etc.) and making it possible to race more safely. Not sure of the best solution, but I do wish they'd get back to racing in the rain.
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They're not overhauling technical/aero laws for the odd wet race.

Tyre guards specifically for wet weather to reduce spray is a unique and plausible idea, though. IndyCar have proven that it is possible to develop modular aero components and F1 designers should be smart enough to come up with solutions where an appendage could be added/removed during a pitstop.
 
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