F1 2023

[Harold_Crick]

You probably also think Frik du Preez is a better lock than Eben Etzebeth.
As the years pass every profession and every sport get more professional and more competitive.
You cant compare someone that raced as a hobby here and there and probably had the most money/sponsors to practice the most and get the best cars, to the competitiveness of F1 today. Fangio would be nowhere.

That argument goes both ways.

Fangio was a mechanic by trade and most drivers through the early 70s had a background as either a mechanic or as an engineer (Jack Brabham and Bruce McLaren were engineers by trade). Throw a modern driver in to a car from the 50s and 60s, with no telemetry and no team of mechanics telling you what the car is doing and tweaking it for you, and let us see how they get on. No Bono or GP coaching you.

You wouldn't even need to go that far back, go back 20-years. Ross Brawn said what set Michael Schumacher apart was that in the infancy of race telemetry, Michael was a computer all on his own. After a run in the car, he would return to the pits, gather his engineer and mechanics and then talk them through the lap, corner by corner, telling them what the car was doing at each point on the track, guiding setup and in those days, guiding what Rory Byrne would go and tweak on his drawing board and in the wind tunnel. In the days of unlimited testing when supercomputers were only coming into it and CFD software couldn't be relied on, a driver's technical knowledge and input was critical in driving the development of the car.

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

Look I made a valid argument and if you guys cannot understand the logic, I'm not going to keep it going to run in circles.
Fact it that people get smarter every generation. Kids are way cleverer and do way more advanced things at an early stage in school than 30 years ago. Same with sport. 30+ years ago you could start playing rugby, tennis or racing cars when you only out of school and become a international star. Today if you don't start before 10 years old you probably have no chance. Their is also a lot more money involved and that creates an opportunity for much bigger competition and only the absolute best will rise to the top.
All the advances with modern cars just proof my point against old driver more. The cars are easier to drive, can more data is available so they can be pushed to the limits more, thus reaction and reflexes will be more important and the older you get the worse those are.
Records keep getting broken because people keep getting better. Evolution.

 

[Harold_Crick]

Look I made a valid argument and if you guys cannot understand the logic, I'm not going to keep it going to run in circles.
Fact it that people get smarter every generation. Kids are way cleverer and do way more advanced things at an early stage in school than 30 years ago. Same with sport. 30+ years ago you could start playing rugby, tennis or racing cars when you only out of school and become a international star. Today if you don't start before 10 years old you probably have no chance. Their is also a lot more money involved and that creates an opportunity for much bigger competition and only the absolute best will rise to the top.
All the advances with modern cars just proof my point against old driver more. The cars are easier to drive, can more data is available so they can be pushed to the limits more, thus reaction and reflexes will be more important and the older you get the worse those are.
Records keep getting broken because people keep getting better. Evolution.

That kind of hurts your own argument.

I know modern drivers are ''smarter'' and fitter, but as you helped illustrate, their actual technical input is the lowest it has ever been, and it is constantly decreasing.

Do yourself a favour and look at onboard footage from the 70s through the mid-2000s and compare them to what you see today. Check how much more ''alive'' and twitchier the older cars were. Not perfectly dialed in on rails. Those drivers had raw ability and mechanical understanding.

You cannot directly compare different generations, but your argument can and does go both ways. 17-year old Max is not beating Fangio around the Nordschleife in the 50s and Fangio wouldn't know what to do with a computer for a steering wheel.

 

[OhYeah84]

You probably also think Frik du Preez is a better lock than Eben Etzebeth.
As the years pass every profession and every sport get more professional and more competitive.
You cant compare someone that raced as a hobby here and there and probably had the most money/sponsors to practice the most and get the best cars, to the competitiveness of F1 today. Fangio would be nowhere.

1. You don't know that.
2. Personal opinion doesn't count without facts.

 

[lkpat]

Ouch...
Prost on Laurent Rossi - Alpine's ex CEO:

 

[lkpat]

Records keep getting broken because people keep getting better. Evolution.

Number of F1 races during Fangio's final championship: 8
Number of F1 races during Schumacher's final championship: 18
Number of F1 races in 2023: 24

Cars can go 376 kph these days, in Fangio's time it was around 290 kph.
Records are being broken, yes, but not because drivers are sharper all of a sudden.

If there's evolution of skill, it's because drivers are now specialists where before they had to be better at strategy and mechanics.

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

Number of F1 races during Fangio's final championship: 8
Number of F1 races during Schumacher's final championship: 18
Number of F1 races in 2023: 24

Cars can go 376 kph these days, in Fangio's time it was around 290 kph.
Records are being broken, yes, but not because drivers are sharper all of a sudden.

If there's evolution of skill, it's because drivers are now specialists where before they had to be better at strategy and mechanics.

Like I said I am not going to waste my time arguing with people that does not have basic logic.
The records being broken has nothing to do with F1. Its humans getting better.
Fastest runners gets faster, long and short distance. Cricket bowlers bowl faster etc.

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

That's true where the person and their abilities are the main factor. So athletics/track and field etc, but

They develop better shoes every year that make runners go faster

For swimmers there are new suits that offer less resistance al pay every year

In F1 the cars get better, the points systems change, the number of races change, they have huge budgets, tech and an army of engineers etc compared to 50-70 years ago.

It's impossible not to break records.

Thats true but do sportsman not also have better training and development as time goes by and get better? Or you just think technology gets better? People not smarter today than 50 years ago?

 

[Hamster]

Thats true but do sportsman not also have better training and development as time goes by and get better? Or you just think technology gets better? People not smarter today than 50 years ago?

Obviously training and technique gets better but you need a real freak of nature like Usain Bolt to break a record where you truly feel the human was the better part of it. I mean that record of his is borderline unbreakable, nobody has come close recently.

F1 drivers... their records aren't that great/"unbelievable"/special in comparison to somebody like Kipyegon breaking three longer distance world records over two weeks or Eliud Kipchoge.

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

Obviously training and technique gets better but you need a real freak of nature like Usain Bolt to break a record where you truly feel the human was the better part of it. I mean that record of his is borderline unbreakable, nobody has come close recently.

F1 drivers... their records aren't that great/"unbelievable"/special in comparison to somebody like Kipyegon breaking three longer distance world records over two weeks or Eliud Kipchoge.

Please stop with the F1 records, I have explained that it had nothing to do with F1 records that people are getting smarter and sportsmen better. I have not mentioned F1 records.
Funny how you have high praise for athletes but it seems you think any couch potato can go drive a car fast?
I will bet a top F1 driver work and train just as hard if not harder than most other athletes. Then we not even talking about mental toughness in a sport you can die at any time.
So yes as time goes bye, money gets bigger and competition gets tougher.
We can see this in the rich kids getting a F1 seat. Money cant buy talent, and yes money probably bought the best training etc and it still not good enough.

 

[Dave]

Please stop

Yes, please stop

 

[lkpat]

Like I said I am not going to waste my time arguing with people that does not have basic logic.

And yet here you are.

The records being broken has nothing to do with F1. Its humans getting better.

Fangio was considered the best, but he could only do 290 kph. Bottas is the worlds fastest F1 driver having being clocked at 376 kph. That man is something else ne.

 

[lkpat]

Thats true but do sportsman not also have better training and development as time goes by and get better? Or you just think technology gets better? People not smarter today than 50 years ago?

Not smarter today, for sure. We have more knowledge at our fingertips, but I believe we use our brains less and Google more.
Systems get developed that make it easier to improve on what we have. We're not smarter today because we have fancy technology - that just means the technology has been improved over time. I'd argue that people are thicker and lazier today because of technology.

 

[lkpat]

I will bet a top F1 driver work and train just as hard if not harder than most other athletes. Then we not even talking about mental toughness in a sport you can die at any time.
So yes as time goes bye, money gets bigger and competition gets tougher.

F1 is not even close to the dangerous sport it was in the past thanks to guys like Sir Jackie Stewart.
During the nine seasons that Jackie Stewart raced, drivers who stayed in the sport for five or more seasons had nearly 70 percent chance of being killed in a racing accident. Jackie once noted that he tried to count the friends he'd lost to the sport and stopped at 57 and wasn't likely finished.

Today - Two in the 90s, 0 in the 2000s and 1 in the 2010s.
Boxing is way more dangerous.

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

And yet here you are.


Fangio was considered the best, but he could only do 290 kph. Bottas is the worlds fastest F1 driver having being clocked at 376 kph. That man is something else ne.

Not smarter today, for sure. We have more knowledge at our fingertips, but I believe we use our brains less and Google more.
Systems get developed that make it easier to improve on what we have. We're not smarter today because we have fancy technology - that just means the technology has been improved over time. I'd argue that people are thicker and lazier today because of technology.

F1 is not even close to the dangerous sport it was in the past thanks to guys like Sir Jackie Stewart.
During the nine seasons that Jackie Stewart raced, drivers who stayed in the sport for five or more seasons had nearly 70 percent chance of being killed in a racing accident. Jackie once noted that he tried to count the friends he'd lost to the sport and stopped at 57 and wasn't likely finished.

Today - Two in the 90s, 0 in the 2000s and 1 in the 2010s.
Boxing is way more dangerous.

OMG
So your argument is Bottas clocked the fastest speed oh and lets not forget your Flintstones meme.
Oh and boxing is way more dangerous. WTF has that got to do with anything?
You know that when a theory or factual evidence is produced, it normally consists of more than a one liner.
I have given my take with lots of sport in general and humans in general, yet you come up with one liners that Bottas clocked the fastest speed that has nothing to do with anything.

And yet after all that YOU want to tell us YOU believe we are thicker today and google more.
Well please go google more and you will see that average IQ’s rise 3-5 points per decade.

 

[abudabi]

Sheesh but you okes know how to spoil a thread! Well bloody done to the lot of you... take a bow.

 

[lkpat]

average IQ’s rise 3-5 points per decade.

American IQs rose 30 points in the last century. Now, they may be falling.

A new study of human intelligence posits a narrative that may surprise the general public: American IQs rose dramatically over the past century, and now they seem to be falling. Cognitive abi…

thehill.com

I think you just proved my point about Google vs smart.

"Cognitive researchers hypothesize that smartphones and smart speakers, autocomplete and artificial intelligence, Wi-Fi and runaway social media have conspired to supplant the higher functions of the human brain. In its quest for labor-saving tech, the world may be dumbing itself down"

 

[Hamster]

Please stop

You need to chill... and stop. And don't write so much in one post I don't read all of it.

 

[UrBaN963]

Quite amazing to see the differences the new regs actually made.

 

[UrBaN963]

Throwback to a different time in F1.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1687804955640430592