F1 - General discussion and 2017

Dave

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
76,567
No. He got away with an apology last time so tried his luck and got away with an apology again.
That is not coming to their senses that is bowing to Ferrari pressure.
The only win win situation would have been a disqualification from Baku results.
That would have reset the championship with Hamilton and Vettel on equal points again.

Agreed, a disqualification from Baku would have been the appropriate punishment and set an example, a ban would have been too much.

The FIA have bowed to Ferrari pressure and shown themselves to be weak, it now appears it's possible to get away with breaches simply by saying sorry (if you're wearing red, at least).
 

Fox1

Executive Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2009
Messages
5,408
The FIA stuffed up by giving a penalty during the race and then went on to add points to Vettels licence. There should be a concrete way to handle these incidents instead of jumping back and forth.
 

sox63

Executive Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
8,708
After some digging, I found the speed trap classification :D

Begging to be hopeful again...



IMG_0502.JPG
 

Willie Trombone

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
60,038

Note that Mercedes and Hamilton weren't even invited to attend. Nah, the only reason they swept it under the carpet is because the FIA are a dinosaur and it would have taken months to get to a conclusion. Any sane person would have just black flagged him during the race and be done with it. Nobody would have argued that.
 
Last edited:

Dave

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
76,567
Note that Mercedes and Hamilton weren't even invited to attend. Nah, the only reason they swept it under the carpet is because the FIA are a dinosaur and it would have taken months to get to a conclusion. Any sane person would have just black flagged him during the race and be done with it. Nobody would have argued that.

I wouldn't argue, that's for sure ;)
 

caroper

Executive Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2003
Messages
8,170
I like the way it says:
"...due to the damage such behaviour may cause to the FIA's image and reputation..."
I think their weak and ineffectual response, as well as giving in to Ferraris idle "boycott" threat, has done more damage to the FIA's image than leaving it alone would have.
 

Dave

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
76,567
I like the way it says:
"...due to the damage such behaviour may cause to the FIA's image and reputation..."
I think there week and ineffectual response and giving in to Ferraris idle "boycott" threat, has done more damage to the FIA's image than leaving it alone would have.

Exactly.
 

Willie Trombone

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
60,038
I like the way it says:
"...due to the damage such behaviour may cause to the FIA's image and reputation..."
I think their weak and ineffectual response, as well as giving in to Ferraris idle "boycott" threat, has done more damage to the FIA's image than leaving it alone would have.

Yep!
Note that Vettel only apologized and admitted fault when faced with sanctions. That's as insincere as it gets.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130540/four-key-questions-from-the-vettel-verdict

The FIA's decision to not take further action against Sebastian Vettel for his clash with Lewis Hamilton at the Azerbaijan Grand Prix has proved almost as controversial as the incident itself.

On one side of the debate are those who think Vettel has got away with his actions simply because of a late apology, and on the other side are those who believed that the German already served his punishment in Baku so F1 is right to forgive, forget and move on.

Regardless of the various opinions floating around, the clash with Hamilton and the fallout over the last week has brought up some big issues that should be addressed.

SHOULD 'SORRY' BE THE EASIEST WORD?

The key thrust of the reasoning for FIA president Jean Todt's decision to draw a line under the matter was that Vettel admitted full responsibility and apologised for what happened.

But should saying sorry - especially when that regret comes only after you are at risk of further sanctions - be enough?

On Sunday night in Baku neither Vettel nor Ferrari showed any remorse for what happened, and even questioned the decision to get a penalty at all.

Vettel apologises for 'dangerous overreaction'

But precedent would now seem to suggest that saying sorry is enough to escape punishments, with Vettel having also been let off for his outburst against Charlie Whiting at least year's Mexican Grand Prix in light an apology he made after that race.

The FIA could find itself in a tricky situation in the future if drivers view these two Vettel affairs as a green light to behave as they want on track, if they know that simply apologising afterwards is enough to escape a slap over the wrists.


IS IT TIME FOR AN OVERHAUL?

One of the reasons why the FIA may have preferred to avoid taking the matter to its International Tribunal is that it would have opened up a lengthy legal process that would have overshadowed F1 for the next few months.

The processes laid down in FIA statutes state that if a Tribunal hearing is called and charges are brought against a competitor, then there is a 15-day time frame for the accused to respond, another 15-day time frame for the prosecutor to reply, and then a further 15-days before a hearing can begin.

Even after the hearing, there then remains the possibility of the matter going to the International Court of Appeal which could take several more weeks.

In a worst-case scenario, this affair could have dragged on until late summer.

That prompts the question about whether there is a case for the FIA's disciplinary process to change, especially when it comes to incidents like Vettel's Mexican GP outburst and the Baku safety car swipe.

Should there be the creation of some form of panel of experts that could be brought into play to make fast-track judgements on the rare occasions when controversial incidents prompt a post-race investigation?

DOES F1 NEED MORE TRANSPARENCY?

The Vettel incident in Baku has served to divide F1's fanbase, with almost everyone having a strong opinion about who was right and who was wrong.

But the situation has not been helped by the lack of a full explanation behind many of the decisions made from the moment the incident happened.

The full telemetry readings that the FIA based its initial reasoning that Hamilton did not brake test Vettel should have been released to prove that the Mercedes driver was innocent.

And what was the official reasoning for Vettel not getting a black flag in Baku - was it really because he was fighting for the championship, or were there other factors at play?

Too much mystery surrounded Monday's hearing too, with the FIA not willing to release details of who was going to be present at the meeting. Why also only have Vettel and Ferrari present and not Hamilton as the afflicted party?

There has not yet been an explanation of why an apology is enough when the whole reason the investigation was called in the first place was because of fears about the impact the incident could have on motor racing's image and reputation.

It was little wonder then that, in light of such a wall of silence, that a 'fake news' FIA press release (declaring Vettel was excluded from the Baku race) was able to get traction on social media on Monday and even get picked up by some national newspapers as being official.
 
Last edited:

upup

Executive Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2009
Messages
9,030
is there a short video of that incident, the Vettel one. Did Vettel brake to late or drive purposely into Hamilton.
 

Genisys

Honorary Master
Joined
Jan 12, 2016
Messages
11,218
is there a short video of that incident, the Vettel one. Did Vettel brake to late or drive purposely into Hamilton.
From what was seen during the race, Hamilton didn't accelerate out of the turn, and caught Vettel out. Vettel then braked too late, and hit Hamilton. The rest is history.
 

Dave

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
76,567
is there a short video of that incident, the Vettel one. Did Vettel brake to late or drive purposely into Hamilton.

There's plenty of videos, both events happened, Vettel accidentally bumped into the back of Hamilton as the pack was backing up before the SC restart, he then lost his temper swerved out and deliberately drove into Hamilton, luckily the impact was wheel to wheel.
 

Dave

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
76,567
Here's one

[video=youtube_share;LuPPHgF0xEM]https://youtu.be/LuPPHgF0xEM[/video]
 

Dave

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
76,567
Better quality version

[video=youtube_share;79D0axLDw30]https://youtu.be/79D0axLDw30[/video]
 

Willie Trombone

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
60,038
^good vid

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130554/aston-and-cosworth-join-f1-engine-meeting
Aston Martin and Cosworth made their first appearance in the group discussing future Formula 1 engine regulations this week, Autosport has learned.

F1 bosses and the FIA are working on plans to adjust the current formula of turbocharged hybrid engines and create a new specification from 2021.

An initial meeting was held in March with F1's current manufacturers, plus representatives from outside the current championship field that included the Volkswagen Group.

DIETER RENCKEN: Why Aston could be F1's next engine supplier

A second formal meeting of what is now officially named the Power Unit Working Group was held on Tuesday, with Aston Martin, Cosworth, Zytek and Magneti Marelli attending for the first time.

The FIA and commercial rights holder are keen to get a wide range of views on how F1 engine technology should evolve and create a framework that is attractive to current and prospective new manufacturers.

Autosport understands the meeting was largely positive, with the FIA running through the feedback it had received and presenting ideas for moving forward.

There was a widespread acceptance that F1 should remain the pinnacle of motorsport and therefore engine technology could not go backwards.

A source said the next step will involve individual consultation with the participants who attended the meeting.

The FIA and the commercial rights holder will then formulate a joint proposal.

It is hoped the next meeting will take place in September, shortly before the World Motor Sport Council convenes on September 21
 

Willie Trombone

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
60,038
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130559/webber-wants-component-change-penalties-ended

029f7d841069560bd6ee90271a58f3d0.jpg


Former Formula 1 driver Mark Webber says he would prefer to see teams docked constructors' championship points rather than handing drivers grid penalties for mechanical problems outside of their control.

"Constructors' points, whatever," he said, "Find a way that you don't hurt the driver.

"There have been so many ridiculous penalties over the last five years that the driver has had nothing to do with, and it's had a big impact on how the weekend would have been in terms of entertainment."

You tell them, Mark. The FIA needs an overhaul.
 
Last edited:

Agent_Smith

Honorary Master
Joined
Dec 3, 2010
Messages
18,126
Hmm...

All eyes on the skies

Temperatures are forecast to be settled in the high 20s Celsius throughout the weekend in Spielberg - but weather conditions appear anything but consistent.

Showers may hit on Friday for example, with scattered thunderstorms leading to a 50 percent chance of rain - and we've seen in previous years the chaos a Styrian downpour can create.

More importantly, there is an even higher chance of thunderstorms striking on Sunday, particularly at 1400 local time - precisely when the start lights are scheduled to go out...
 

Ecco

Executive Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
8,903
Former Formula 1 driver Mark Webber says he would prefer to see teams docked constructors' championship points rather than handing drivers grid penalties for mechanical problems outside of their control.

"Constructors' points, whatever," he said, "Find a way that you don't hurt the driver.

"There have been so many ridiculous penalties over the last five years that the driver has had nothing to do with, and it's had a big impact on how the weekend would have been in terms of entertainment."

It might seem fair from a drivers point of view. But by not moving the driver down the grid, they could end up anywhere in the points and what happens is that other drivers and teams lose out because they lose points – both driver and constructors points. So I think overall the rule as it currently is, is more fair to everybody
 

Willie Trombone

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
60,038
It might seem fair from a drivers point of view. But by not moving the driver down the grid, they could end up anywhere in the points and what happens is that other drivers and teams lose out because they lose points – both driver and constructors points. So I think overall the rule as it currently is, is more fair to everybody

A little bit of math required to have a separate driver and constructor points system for each race, but that's all. Just bump the guy behind up a notch if you've been docked points.
 
Top