Facebook students to face disciplinary action

Garyvdh said:
After the debacle with those other students at the Free State, I think they are going to great lengths to avoid the damage these racist students do the name of the university. I say throw the book at them. What they did was reprehensible. How can anyone excuse that?
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There is huge difference between the incidents, IMO. One took place ON campus, WITH varsity employees, AND showed ON campus.

Whereas the other was an online thing, something the varsity can't be held responsible for.
 
Albereth said:
What rubbish - the university only has to take action where it is involved. Let's say that you are a student at some arb university. You travel to some place and after a few drinks decide to take a dump on the doorstep of the mayor's house.

You get busted - caught with your pants down, so to speak.

The fact that you go to arbuni is irrelevant and why should you be kicked out? Of course, if you are wearing an arbuni jersey and claim to be on some student initiation stunt, the story is somewhat different.
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I can see you never went to University ;)

Being accepted at a University is a contract, just like school. The University reserves the right to censure you for conduct unbecoming to a student... no matter where it takes place. They have the right to expel you if you are not a good representation of their institution. If you don't like it then go somewhere else... and good luck with that. It is the same almost everywhere. It is their protection of their name. They have every legal right to that. If the students disagree or rebel against it, they can leave or be expelled.
 
sox63 said:
There is huge difference between the incidents, IMO. One took place ON campus, WITH varsity employees, AND showed ON campus.

Whereas the other was an online thing, something the varsity can't be held responsible for.
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yes it can. When the students and public become aware that the majority of these members of the facebook group are members at their institution then who do you think they are going to call on? Facebook is a social networking group. All one has to do is to click on the members of said group and it won't be long until you figure out where they live and where they go to school. Bad reputation in the making. The University was exercising its rights to discipline them... and good thing too. They are a bunch of racists.
 
Garyvdh said:
I can see you never went to University ;)

Being accepted at a University is a contract, just like school. The University reserves the right to censure you for conduct unbecoming to a student... no matter where it takes place. They have the right to expel you if you are not a good representation of their institution. If you don't like it then go somewhere else... and good luck with that. It is the same almost everywhere. It is their protection of their name. They have every legal right to that. If the students disagree or rebel against it, they can leave or be expelled.
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So drinking and unruly behaviour is ok then, as I don't see any student in UP being reprimanded or expelled for their behaviour in and around Hatfield?

If they want to have a say based on that, then they have to apply it to ALL actions by students, even the socially seemingly "ok" ones.
 
Garyvdh said:
After the debacle with those other students at the Free State, I think they are going to great lengths to avoid the damage these racist students do the name of the university. I say throw the book at them. What they did was reprehensible. How can anyone excuse that?
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Well they could say it was taken out of context. Seems to work well for some, over, and over, and over, and over again.

Apparently universities have more integrity than any government organization.
 
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Nod said:
So drinking and unruly behaviour is ok then, as I don't see any student in UP being reprimanded or expelled for their behaviour in and around Hatfield?

If they want to have a say based on that, then they have to apply it to ALL actions by students, even the socially seemingly "ok" ones.
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I don't think it is OK... but I'm not the university. Why are you asking me?

Why don't you call them and report it if it offends you?

Obviously they are only going to act on what they know and what is reported to them. Racism is in the news and is a serious offense in South Africa. Obviously drunkenness is not as much of an issue. I dunno. Don't ask me.
 
Garyvdh said:
I don't think it is OK... but I'm not the university. Why are you asking me?

Why don't you call them and report it if it offends you?

Obviously they are only going to act on what they know and what is reported to them. Racism is in the news and is a serious offense in South Africa. Obviously drunkenness is not as much of an issue. I dunno. Don't ask me.
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I agree, but I think its white racism that gets in the news and is a serious offense.
 
HumanoidTyphoon said:
I agree, but I think its white racism that gets in the news and is a serious offense.
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(tongue in cheek) there is no such thing as black racism! :rolleyes:

it is impossible for a black person to be racist! ;)

Only whites are racist... didn't you know that?
 
Garyvdh said:
I don't think it is OK... but I'm not the university. Why are you asking me?

Why don't you call them and report it if it offends you?

Obviously they are only going to act on what they know and what is reported to them. Racism is in the news and is a serious offense in South Africa. Obviously drunkenness is not as much of an issue. I dunno. Don't ask me.
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He is asking you because you are the one that believes that universities have the right to control a person's personal life.
 
Albereth said:
He is asking you because you are the one that believes that universities have the right to control a person's personal life.
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Not only that, but they can selectively decide what is "moral" behaviour and what not. I suspect it has something to do with how much news coverage they can get out of the whole issue. Any publicity is good publicity, as they say.
 
Albereth said:
He is asking you because you are the one that believes that universities have the right to control a person's personal life.
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Who said I believe that? :confused:

I merely stated the fact that when you join a university you are a party to a contract which proscribes your behaviour.

.. and then I said if you don't like it don't join the university.

I said nothing about the belief that they should be able to control anyone's life. Sorry for your wrong thinking.
 
Nod said:
Not only that, but they can selectively decide what is "moral" behaviour and what not. I suspect it has something to do with how much news coverage they can get out of the whole issue. Any publicity is good publicity, as they say.
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oh bullstuff man. What a stupid statement! Now you are going off the deep end. Who here in this thread said anything like that?

But the fact IS that racism of that sort IS immoral by any rational person's standards. The university just took steps to distance themselves from it and to chastise the students involved as their student handbook gives them the right to. The same student code that those students agreed to when they joined the university. Nothing more nothing less.

It sounds like you are trying to defend what these students did?
 
Garyvdh said:
oh bullstuff man. What a stupid statement! Now you are going off the deep end. Who here in this thread said anything like that?

But the fact IS that racism of that sort IS immoral by any rational person's standards. The university just took steps to distance themselves from it and to chastise the students involved as their student handbook gives them the right to. The same student code that those students agreed to when they joined the university. Nothing more nothing less.

It sounds like you are trying to defend what these students did?
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Not defending them at all. They are dumbasses at deserve whats coming. However there are processes in place on facebook to address matters like that. Somebody could have had a talk with them, I could have pointed out the obvious stupidity of showcasing your racist views on a platform where everybody can see who you are.

There are a lot of immoral things in this world, racism is just the "baddest" by popular demand at the moment. Once racism have gone, people and the media will find something else that are the focus for the next few years.

The university could have asked facebook to remove the group as well, but that wouldn't have placed the spotlight on them, as it did.

The students wanted attention, and they got it. Now they will have to deal with the consequences of that action. Hope they learn something from it.
 
Garyvdh said:
Who said I believe that? :confused:

I merely stated the fact that when you join a university you are a party to a contract which proscribes your behaviour.

.. and then I said if you don't like it don't join the university.

I said nothing about the belief that they should be able to control anyone's life. Sorry for your wrong thinking.
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What you said was:

Being accepted at a University is a contract, just like school. The University reserves the right to censure you for conduct unbecoming to a student... no matter where it takes place. They have the right to expel you if you are not a good representation of their institution. If you don't like it then go somewhere else... and good luck with that. It is the same almost everywhere. It is their protection of their name. They have every legal right to that. If the students disagree or rebel against it, they can leave or be expelled.
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I am sorry that you don't believe what you wrote.

But as you are an expert on universities I would have to ask you for an example of where the 'conduct unbecoming to a student' appears in, say, the University of the Witwatersrand Code of Conduct.

You might just find that blanket generalisations become rather difficult to police and are so ambiguous that being a 'goody two shoes' is probably more likely to be 'conduct unbecoming'. By way of example, it may be a tradition for engineering students to disassemble the Rector's car and reassemble it on the library roof. Failure to participate in this activity is 'conduct unbecoming'.

With that in mind, codes of conduct and rules of discipline tend to be as specific as possible but without being an overburden.
 
Nod said:
The students wanted attention, and they got it. Now they will have to deal with the consequences of that action. Hope they learn something from it.
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What happens to the students that joined that group and hijacked it? Are they in trouble too?

I am sure the argument that they have is that they joined it to ridicule it and destroy it from within. The argument that the original members have is that they were conducting a social experiment in preparation for possible thesis topics, or everyone who joined after the first person had exactly the same intent as the mob who joined to ridicule and destroy it - they were just about to do that but got called for supper.
 
Albereth said:
What happens to the students that joined that group and hijacked it? Are they in trouble too?

I am sure the argument that they have is that they joined it to ridicule it and destroy it from within. The argument that the original members have is that they were conducting a social experiment in preparation for possible thesis topics, or everyone who joined after the first person had exactly the same intent as the mob who joined to ridicule and destroy it - they were just about to do that but got called for supper.
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If that is the excuse, it is a poor one at best. With such a sensitive topic, it would have been wise to consult with the lecturer involved, in order to get clarity on how to approach it, and whether using facebook was a good idea to begin with. Personally, I feel they should all be receiving the same punishment.
 
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