Facebook students to face disciplinary action

[LazyLion]

What you said was:

I am sorry that you don't believe what you wrote.

How do you go from that... to "you are the one that believes that universities have the right to control a person's personal life."

http://web.wits.ac.za/NR/rdonlyres/DE22FF56-DBBA-4C6A-841A-A7206B0583D2/0/studentconduct.pdf

Every student is subject to these rules.

‘Misconduct’ comprises behaviour within or without the precincts of the University, without just excuse, which

4) constitutes conduct that tends to bring the University or any part of it or a member of its staff or a student or any part of its student body into contempt or disrepute; or...

This Code of Conduct reflects the core values of the University. It does not replace but informs the rules and disciplinary codes of the University.
The University of the Witwatersrand seeks to foster its reputation for excellence in teaching, learning and research and for service to the intellectual, professional and educational needs of its staff and students and of society beyond the University. The conduct of each staff member, student or person acting on behalf of the University is important for sustaining an environment conducive to freedom of enquiry and the search for knowledge and truth.
Hence, the University community requires a commitment from every individual to act ethically, respectfully, responsibly and diligently....

That is not my "belief" it is a simple fact. And they are not controlling every facet of the student's life... only asking that he be a good representative.

Now stop overstating things.

 

[Albereth]

How do you go from that... to "you are the one that believes that universities have the right to control a person's personal life."

By joining dots.

Um, thanks for the Wits thing. I do have it, contrary to your belief system

BTW - no mention of conduct unbecoming was there?

And I am glad you used careful selection from the definition of 'misconduct' in your response. Did you go further and find that issues of racism are confined to the precincts?

 

[Albereth]

That is not my "belief" it is a simple fact. And they are not controlling every facet of the student's life... only asking that he be a good representative.

Now stop overstating things.

Okay - now we're heading into philosophical territory. Is a fact, in fact, a fact if you don't believe it?

And, yes, I do believe that the senitments that the university is trying to express are valid. They would love that the alumni were model citizens and contributors to the good of all. But the truth is that their responsibility is limited - you can't go from asking that someone is a good citizen and then suddenly demand it. And further, if the student isn't representing the university in his thoughts or deeds, why should the university become involved. Because it wants to? Or because this incident seems like something that the university should be involved in? That just makes it arbitary, even if they leap up and down on every alleged racism incident but overlook any other infraction of the 'rules'. And arbitary application of justice has been stated as unconstitutional.

 

[LazyLion]

By joining dots.

Um, thanks for the Wits thing. I do have it, contrary to your belief system

BTW - no mention of conduct unbecoming was there?

And I am glad you used careful selection from the definition of 'misconduct' in your response. Did you go further and find that issues of racism are confined to the precincts?

OK, I give up. It's pointless talking you. Never banter with a fool. You have convinced me of that.

"misconduct" ... "conduct unbecoming" ??? You think there is a huge difference between those?

"conduct that tends to bring the University or any part of it or a member of its staff or a student or any part of its student body into contempt or disrepute" ... "conduct unbecoming" ??? You think there is a huge difference between those?

come on... grow up and join us in the real world.

 

[Albereth]

OK, I give up. It's pointless talking you. Never banter with a fool. You have convinced me of that.

"misconduct" ... "conduct unbecoming" ??? You think there is a huge difference between those?

"conduct that tends to bring the University or any part of it or a member of its staff or a student or any part of its student body into contempt or disrepute" ... "conduct unbecoming" ??? You think there is a huge difference between those?

come on... grow up and join us in the real world.

Oi - you were the one that started on the verbatim quotation line of discussion.

And there is a big difference in the interpretation of the terms. Misconduct is more of the 'you definately broke a rule' and conduct is unbecoming is more of the 'you didn't actually break a rule but we didn't like what you did'.

But it's cool. Argue, don't argue. It isn't as though it was important or anything.

 

[LazyLion]

Oi - you were the one that started on the verbatim quotation line of discussion.

And there is a big difference in the interpretation of the terms. Misconduct is more of the 'you definately broke a rule' and conduct is unbecoming is more of the 'you didn't actually break a rule but we didn't like what you did'.

But it's cool. Argue, don't argue. It isn't as though it was important or anything.

or that you had any clue of what you were talking about .. as usual.

 

[Albereth]

or that you had any clue of what you were talking about .. as usual.

Am I all forgiven now that you are talking to me again?

 

[<moLe>]

Not a racist, dont aprove of the group..but still think that unless the group in question turns into a terorist group that group should be allowed to voice they're opinion however dumb that may be? Or maybe not? I dont know.
Cause so many people walking around with their racism locked inside just lettling it boil away, maybe if you allow people to make a statement, and then give people to counter that statement then that way in their own heads they can get a clearer picture of the facts and so grow to sort out the issue in their head?
Cause unfortunately racism is a BIG reality in this country, and its time we look each other in the eyes eye to eye and talk it out, instead of trying to cover it up? Who knows maybe we can learn from each other?

 

[lsuacner]

Students on the campus say it is a possibility that racist students (non-Afrikaans non-white) started the group in order to create a racial incident.

They also have said that ANCYL and Cosatu members go to student meetings in order to create a scene, they intentionallly aggravate students in the hope that the response would be violent or "racist" name calling.. in order to put the students and campus in a bad light.
A friend of my confirmed it for me.. in the last meeting it happened and they now put a sign up "Admission Reserved" in order to force such troublemakers to leave immediately.

Should I go to an ANCYL meeting and scream at the top of my lungs "Zuma is corrupt and a womaniser..". What would the reaction be on their part I wonder?

Stronger action should be taken against the troublemakers than against a student drawn in to such a mess.

 

[Syndyre]

The university has to take action where a matter is reported by its students. They would be in the wrong if they did not act on that information. The fallout from no action would have been worse.

Action on what, any matter? A university only has limited jurisdiction.

After the debacle with those other students at the Free State, I think they are going to great lengths to avoid the damage these racist students do the name of the university. I say throw the book at them. What they did was reprehensible. How can anyone excuse that?

I don't think anybody's excusing it, I just don't believe the university has a right to intervene in this case, I'm not necessarily even saying nobody should, I haven't looked into the details enough to know if they committed a crime.

 

[marine1]

Students on the campus say it is a possibility that racist students (non-Afrikaans non-white) started the group in order to create a racial incident.

They also have said that ANCYL and Cosatu members go to student meetings in order to create a scene, they intentionallly aggravate students in the hope that the response would be violent or "racist" name calling.. in order to put the students and campus in a bad light.

Would not surprise me one bit

 

[Fudzy]

I guess on one side you have FF+, the other the ANCYL. They'll all there to stir.

 

[marine1]

Comparing the FF+ to the ANCYL? Umm ok. If that is the way you want to look at it. I dont see the similarity.

 

[Fudzy]

While FF+ is A LOT more respectable, I find both parties look for situations to create as much media noise as possible for their causes.

 

[lsuacner]

While FF+ is A LOT more respectable, I find both parties look for situations to create as much media noise as possible for their causes.

I think the FF+ raises points the ANC does not want to hear but what everyone in their right mind is thinking. They don't try and please people. What they said recently about naming steets after terrorists.. murderers.. is true.
ANC can change names of the NP leaders who did the same, but leave things like Church street.

 

[Fudzy]

ANC can change names of the NP leaders who did the same, but leave things like Church street.

Agreed, change the roads named after people, not the ones that descriptive ones.

 

[<moLe>]

Students on the campus say it is a possibility that racist students (non-Afrikaans non-white) started the group in order to create a racial incident.

They also have said that ANCYL and Cosatu members go to student meetings in order to create a scene, they intentionallly aggravate students in the hope that the response would be violent or "racist" name calling.. in order to put the students and campus in a bad light.
A friend of my confirmed it for me.. in the last meeting it happened and they now put a sign up "Admission Reserved" in order to force such troublemakers to leave immediately.

Should I go to an ANCYL meeting and scream at the top of my lungs "Zuma is corrupt and a womaniser..". What would the reaction be on their part I wonder?

Stronger action should be taken against the troublemakers than against a student drawn in to such a mess.

wont surprise me cosatu leeches on chaos..its what they do. They never give back, and just take, break, corrupt and manipulate the country to suit one or two individuals.