Fallism and the intellectuals

[Kidkaroo]

Mike Berger questions the confused, submissive response by our 'thought leaders' to this outbreak of racial fanaticism.

In the Fallist movement and the confused, submissive response to its threats and violence we are witnessing the surrender of the academic and media elite of this country to a form of collective Stockholm syndrome. They were primed by their own buy-in to the full "liberation narrative" and then by the on-going tribal pressures of the post-Apartheid order to differentiate themselves from what was depicted as the racist and reactionary residue of the previous order.

 

[TriGuN]

They nurtured this, and it turned on them.

 

[^^vampire^^]

Biggest problem is that all black people keep being sold the story of how the ANC saved them. It would seem that the black youth now feel detached from the "struggle veterans" and feel they need to prove themselves to each other and the elite and so now they are making waves with whatever they can latch onto as their "struggle", even if it makes no sense. As long as you have "fought" for something you now belong.

 

[Rouxenator]

This whole movement can be summarised with :
“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

 

[Vrotappel]

Great read.

The great achievement of Western culture over the past millennium has been the elevation of the individual, together with his/her attendant rights and responsibilities, over the collective. This is the foundation stone of democratic governance and individual liberty enshrined in the praxis and Constitutions of the successful democracies of Western Europe, the Americas, Scandinavia and elsewhere. Our own Constitution reflects that tradition.

At a minimum serious harm has been inflicted on the tertiary education system of South Africa. A toxic genie has been liberated into the halls of academia which will work its poison over time. It will be seen in a dropping of academic standards, the polarisation and politicisation of the academic space, the flight of alumnus money and top-grade staff and students and deteriorating extra-curricular programmes as "campus politics" and shortage of funds exerts their baleful influence over the student and staff body.

These effects will spread beyond the academic space in the form of reduced expertise, a politicised public culture increasingly prone to opportunism and corruption and a public discourse dominated by a mythologised history, racial grievance and the substitution of empty slogans for reasoned debate. The tradition of personal agency and responsibility will succumb to group-based politics which will get uglier as our situation worsens.

 

[Rouxenator]

Yeah, but still comes down to arguing with idiots.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Just can't help it, when I read "fallism and the intellectuals" all I see is an oxymoron (and a couple of other morons too naturally)

 

[access]

Just can't help it, when I read "fallism and the intellectuals" all I see is an oxymoron (and a couple of other morons too naturally)

+++

 

[Arthur]

Mike Berger sees it, and says it exactly right. Collectivism ends in blood.

 

[TEXTILE GUY]

This whole movement can be summarised with :
“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

/agrees

Revolution over evolution is the order of the day

 

[Xarog]

Mike Berger sees it, and says it exactly right. Collectivism ends in blood.

I guess that's why Catholicism talks so much about the blood of Christ, eh Arthur?

 

[Solarion]

I guess that's why Catholicism talks so much about the blood of Christ, eh Arthur?

Well, they did collectively nail an innocent bloke to a tree because they didn't like what he was saying. They wanted a revolution (against the Romans) and Jesus was having none of it.

Similar to that white student disagreeing with Captain Science and her Peanut Gang, you could cut the hostility in that room with a knife.

What this says to me, is that in +- 2000 years, Humans haven't progressed at all, same petty squabbles, same inconsequential whinging and whining about goals and revolutions which equate to sweet ****all.

The Human race should be wiped from this planet and made extinct.

 

[Arthur]

I guess that's why Catholicism talks so much about the blood of Christ, eh Arthur?

More seriously (since you raise the point), it's a small but important part. The centre is the True, the Good, and the Beautiful. When these are violated and trampled by humans the consequence for us is pain, and the price of restoration is often paid in innocent blood. For us the Cross is par excellence the sign of Love because it attests that fidelity to Truth is worth every suffering, even a grisly death.

These student rampages are anti-rational and anti-human.

Edit: Here's a piece in today's DM by Russell Pollitt, on why the students violated the sanctuary at Holy Trinity in Braamies.

 

[Xarog]

More seriously (since you raise the point), it's a small but important part. The centre is the True, the Good, and the Beautiful. When these are violated and trampled by humans the consequence for us is pain, and the price of restoration is often paid in innocent blood. For us the Cross is par excellence the sign of Love because it attests that fidelity to Truth is worth every suffering, even a grisly death.

These student rampages are anti-rational and anti-human.

So based on your response, I think you will take my point when I say that this anti-intellectual blight doesn't actually have anything to do with collectivism in the same way that it would be absurd to criticise Catholicism as a whole just because it has certain collectivistic elements.

 

[CorrieDeBeer]

Mike Berger questions the confused, submissive response by our 'thought leaders' to this outbreak of racial fanaticism.

In the Fallist movement and the confused, submissive response to its threats and violence we are witnessing the surrender of the academic and media elite of this country to a form of collective Stockholm syndrome. They were primed by their own buy-in to the full "liberation narrative" and then by the on-going tribal pressures of the post-Apartheid order to differentiate themselves from what was depicted as the racist and reactionary residue of the previous order.

Oooh someone went to College.

Biggest problem is that all black people keep being sold the story of how the ANC saved them. It would seem that the black youth now feel detached from the "struggle veterans" and feel they need to prove themselves to each other and the elite and so now they are making waves with whatever they can latch onto as their "struggle", even if it makes no sense. As long as you have "fought" for something you now belong.

It would not surprise me if the whole fallist movement is not Just Malema and his cohorts trying to destabilise the country to gain power. The EFF wants a communist dictatorship so it is no surprise that they are using terrorism to gain power.

 

[Arthur]

So based on your response, I think you will take my point when I say that this anti-intellectual blight doesn't actually have anything to do with collectivism in the same way that it would be absurd to criticise Catholicism as a whole just because it has certain collectivistic elements.

I disagree, for the same reason that Mike Berger does. Collectivist systems are evil because at root they are based on the view that collectives (of whatever sort) trump the individual. In my view it is never morally licit to violate an innocent person's rights in the name of a collective. In our view, each individual human is of eternal and transcendent worth.

 

[Xarog]

I disagree, for the same reason that Mike Berger does. Collectivist systems are evil because at root they are based on the view that collectives (of whatever sort) trump the individual. In my view it is never morally licit to violate an innocent person's rights in the name of a collective. In our view, each individual human is of eternal and transcendent worth.

If each human is of eternal and trasncendent worth, then what each human needs to flourish is of similar value. That includes the collective. Indeed, without the community, there would never have been a need to evolve speech.

So I find the notion that there is some kind of dichotomy between individualism and collectivism to be absurd. Healthy human beings need both and in the right balance, and there's enough space for them to share. With 7 billion of us running around on the planet, the compromises we all have to make to ensure that civilisation remains feasable are reasonable, and that is what underpins the framework of our collective identity.

 

[Arthur]

If each human is of eternal and trasncendent worth, then what each human needs to flourish is of similar value. That includes the collective. Indeed, without the community, there would never have been a need to evolve speech.

So I find the notion that there is some kind of dichotomy between individualism and collectivism to be absurd. Healthy human beings need both and in the right balance, and there's enough space for them to share. With 7 billion of us running around on the planet, the compromises we all have to make to ensure that civilisation remains feasable are reasonable, and that is what underpins the framework of our collective identity.

No, you confuse collective and collectivism. The -ism is a systematic and ideologically-based instantiation of what is at root a philosophical anthropology. Same critical distinction holds for social and socialism, rational and rationalism, science and scientism.

Of course the community / society / collective are vital and essential for human flourishing. But any system that is prepared to subordinate the rights of any individual to a collective is manifestly unjust, because it means human worth and its attendant rights are only temporary and contingent concessions and therefore not rights at all. Collectivist systems (ie those based on the -ism) are antithetical to social and individual flourishing.

The root problem of the Fallists is that they are demanding that others be expropriated to fund their studies, and they will rage and rampage and burn until they get their way. That is nothing less than barbarism and theft, even if it's done via the State.

 

[Xarog]

Any ideology which promotes rational thought is a form of rationalism. Any ideology which promotes the idea of a collective is a form of collectivism. So one cannot speak ideally of a collective without resorting to some form of collectivism. Thus I would promote an ideology which can incorporate both collectivism and individualism, to the degree that each behaviour is appropriate for healthy human existence.

 

[Arthur]

Any ideology which promotes rational thought is a form of rationalism. Any ideology which promotes the idea of a collective is a form of collectivism. So one cannot speak ideally of a collective without resorting to some form of collectivism. Thus I would promote an ideology which can incorporate both collectivism and individualism, to the degree that each behaviour is appropriate for healthy human existence.

No, you use the word rationalism and collectivism in a way that is unknown in the literature, in the disciplines.