Fascist America, in 10 easy steps

[Xarog]

I wonder how Iran fits this "criteria" seeing as Xarog and the posse are always coming to it's defence

Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy

The Great Satan. The western world and the Jews. Any infidel.

As for internal. Well anybody who the regime won't tolerate

Create a gulag

The whole counrty is a gulag. Politcal prisoners, hangings and torture in public places like parks


Develop a thug caste

The ruling religious elite. They make the final decisions regarding the State as well as having their own armed forces loyal and answerable only to them"


Set up an internal surveillance system

Even schools are monitored by the religious police to ensure gender segregation and the obedience of oppresive laws .


Harass citizens' groups


There aren't any. Any kind of protests are forcibly removed with violence and state punishment.


Engage in arbitrary detention and release

They almost have nothing else.


Target key individuals


Like Salmon Rushdie who got a fatwa against him for airing his views.


Control the press

There is no free press to try and control


Dissent equals treason

Students who show dissent end up with "call ups" to the army and harassment.


Suspend the rule of law

The only law that counts is what the elite rubber stamp. They decide not the citizens.


Yet the posse have plenty of time for this kind of state. Somehow America is worse

Tu Quoque.

 

[nocilah]

my word... do you all suck up to america on weekdays or only when our country cant play cricket?

such patriotism for a country you dont even live in? weird.

america suxors wether they kill people unjustly or wether they kill people unjustly.

face it. the only thing usa has going for it is google

 

[bwana]

my word... do you all suck up to america on weekdays or only when our country cant play cricket?

such patriotism for a country you dont even live in? weird.

I don't need to be living there to feel patriotic.

america suxors wether they kill people unjustly or wether they kill people unjustly.

Huh?

 

[nocilah]

Huh?

its a paradox.

when do they kill justly?

 

[Amerikanse]

Yawn

The American gov't aint fascist. I live here in the US...and we're a long way from that, though it could conceivably happen at some point. Nyah...fascism in Nazi Germany...Mussolini's Italy...heck, in the US the trains don't even run on time. When they do I'll get suspicious...oh, and I still own guns.

 

[kilo39]

I don't need to supply alternatives because I dont agree with the premiss. I dont believe America is headed towards being a fascist state.

I'm also not punting a book due out in September.

Amazing how somebody can read an article about the fears of a fascist state (largely based on fact) and then focus on the last 2 lines of text. Ja, must be that!

Naomi Wolf's The End of America: A Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot will be published by Chelsea Green in September

Funnier and funnier! NOT!

 

[mancombseepgood]

Land of the home and free of the brave

 

[kilo39]

Yeah outlaw and ignore war means it won't happen so we can all live in peace for eternity never having to make any sacrifices. Have you seen what laws were used by America during WW2? Did that turn them into a fascist state?

Somebody else who didn't read the article. Otherwise you would not make such comments!

There have been other times of crisis in which the US accepted limits on civil liberties, such as during the civil war, when Lincoln declared martial law, and the second world war, when thousands of Japanese-American citizens were interned. But this situation, as Bruce Fein of the American Freedom Agenda notes, is unprecedented: all our other wars had an endpoint, so the pendulum was able to swing back toward freedom; this war is defined as open-ended in time and without national boundaries in space - the globe itself is the battlefield. "This time," Fein says, "there will be no defined end."

SO: exactly as I say, you don't read anything or actually have any opinion beside you own inbuilt delusions. Read the article and all the others (then tell us we are dreaming, 'cause we surely ain't.) Do you think this author "just makes this up?"

Did previous POW camps have a 100% success rate in not interning innocent people? If not where was the outrage then?

A font of nothingness! No, none, if any civilians ever ended up a POW camp. If they did (ie, not in uniform) they likely ended up against the nearest wall with a bullet in the chest. (Where do you get your imagination!?)

Oh yeah if the thought is to uncomfortable to your 'peace" to contemplate then it can't be true. Just like they demonized the poor nazis who obviously couldn't have been as bad they proclaimed.

This drivel is so disgusting it does not bear comment!

You scared the government might listen in on people's embarising "call boy" phone sex lines

No actually it was "your" governments rent boys!!

Megachurch pastor Ted Haggard steps down amid gay prostitute scandal
Ted Haggard, one of the most prominent evangelical pastors in the nation, resigned today as president of the National Association of Evangelicals amid allegations that he carried on a three-year sexual relationship with a male prostitute.

Oh ja, Ted used to make regular phone calls to his buddy George. Hypocrites.

Interesting that a soldier asked about that said you can't have it both ways. He said you can't support the troops but not what they are doing there. Actively undermining their efforts and emboldening those that try and kill them is a messed up idea of supporting them. I guess the moonbats learned from Vietnam how it wasn't very enduring to them when they demonized and spat on the "baby killers". So now at least publicly they change their tune. But as is so often the case with you lot it doesn't work. Hence John "I support the troops/troops are idiots" Kerry can't even help a slip up

What are you talking about?! Ja, the same troops who complain they are underequipped. The same troops that are dying of neglect in American military hospitals!!! Ja, seems the Viet war was another scam: there was no Gulf of Tonkin incident! (you lot really are disgusting!, gee, now we can all say it!)

Where are the political prisoners, hard labour and torture? Why is it not fulling up with "activists" and journalists?

Oh, well you really didn't read the article then did you?

It is a mistake to think that early in a fascist shift you see the profile of barbed wire against the sky. In the early days, things look normal on the surface; peasants were celebrating harvest festivals in Calabria in 1922; people were shopping and going to the movies in Berlin in 1931. Early on, as WH Auden put it, the horror is always elsewhere - while someone is being tortured, children are skating, ships are sailing: "dogs go on with their doggy life ... How everything turns away/ Quite leisurely from the disaster."
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That means a hollowness has been expanding under the foundation of all these still- free-looking institutions - and this foundation can give way under certain kinds of pressure. To prevent such an outcome, we have to think about the "what ifs".

What if, in a year and a half, there is another attack - say, God forbid, a dirty bomb? The executive can declare a state of emergency. History shows that any leader, of any party, will be tempted to maintain emergency powers after the crisis has passed. With the gutting of traditional checks and balances, we are no less endangered by a President Hillary than by a President Giuliani - because any executive will be tempted to enforce his or her will through edict rather than the arduous, uncertain process of democratic negotiation and compromise.

 

[kilo39]

Funny the Israelis are fighting for their right to exist. You've seen the brainwashing of kids into hateful zealots by the "protest" organizations. You've seen 12 years olds chop heads off. All under the same banner all over the world. You seem happy to believe Christianity can do that to people yet no other extremes of religion can

?? You mean fascist islamoterrorists surely? There is no excuse for disgusting extremism as this; but look to the 'cause, it is yourselves! WhereTF do you think this enemy came from?

It's to stop their civilians from being killed. It seems you don't apply that same "right" to them. What's wrong with an ID? What's wrong with surveillance to help protect innocent law abiding citizens? They are plenty of out spoken professors and lecturers. Why can't you "the master of google" find them? Perhaps you don't want to. The citizens who work for the MSM and create internet blogs. Can't you find those either?

Your rhetoric is truly stifling. Seems they can't 'even' build a wall 'in a straight line' without telling a lie! We are 'obviously' talking ID pertinent to nations such as US and UK who have never had it. Have never seen the need and believe right to anonymity is basic right to life! So yes, there is gripe cause once again you miss it: it is open to abuse, the same way it is abused in this country (and beyond) never mind its long (shall we call fascist?) history here.

Ah yes, the white skinned racists again. That's what it always comes down to. stifling PC. If you’re white you can't criticize or do anything to anybody who happens to have a different skin colour. What is Condi Rice then?

You the one with the "if you have an opinion you are obviously a thug" attitude. We only need to look back at your rampaging insults. Yet when you receive a bit of the same medicine you whine .How can you be allowed to do it but others can't subject you to similar abuse?

Simply not true. I have readily admitted many times to the use of "idiot, moron, troll," maybe a few others. Who writes the constantly flowering rhetoric here? Bit like George in that way, what?? Islamofascist Fundamentalist Killer Terrorists. Must admit, it has a certain roll off the tongue! Moonbats, eyes on stalks, etc. I take exception when it is 'personally' directed (especially from whence it came,) someone who should be promoting peace (not spewing personal invective.) Bit like George there: can't stand a bit of truth!

As to 'what is Condi?' Um, a vampire bat? NOT. Her, George, Dick (and good old rummy) make me sick to my tummy!

Again what is wrong with protecting the populace. Isn't that the State's main priority.
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What citizen groups? Their are plenty raving all over America as we speak.
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So many? A handfull perhaps wrongly jailed. But wait we must open all prisons and realise all the inmates because a handfull might be inocent.
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Bwahahaha

Oh my what next

Maybe because they're are actually taking drugs. All part of their hedonistic lfestyles.

Oh, so harassing citizens going about their tasks in a citizens way in a democratic state is perfectly fine? Throwing the odd handful wrongly in jail is perfectly fine? Listen to yourself FFS. Nobody denies the original existence of cameras (as a crime fighting, security issue.) These are not the fears: the fears are of a totalitarian state, and with the measures imposed or desired to be imposed: those are the fears, none other.

What about CBS, CNN and on and on......

Anyone who claims the US media didn ’t censor itself is kidding you. It wasn’t a matter of government pressure but a reluctance to criticize anything in a war that was obviously supported by the vast majority of the people.
Senior CNN Executive Admits News Media Distorted Afghanistan War

While at Davos, Rupert Murdoch discusses the rise of the Internet and digital media, but tells us he used News Corp. to manipulate the news.

Asked if his News Corp. managed to shape the agenda on the war in Iraq, Murdoch said: "No, I don't think so. We tried." Asked by Rose for further comment, he said: "We basically supported the Bush policy in the Middle East…but we have been very critical of his execution."
[source]

A specter now haunts the world: a global commercial media system dominated by a small number of superpowerful, mostly U.S.-based transnational media corporations. It is a system that works to advance the cause of the global market and promote commercial values, while denigrating journalism and culture not conducive to the immediate bottom line or long-run corporate interests. It is a disaster for anything but the most superficial notion of democracy--a democracy where, to paraphrase John Jay's maxim, those who own the world ought to govern it.
The Global Media Giants
We are the world By Robert McChesney

So please stop. Your version of reality bears no relation to the real world!

Your general rhetoric is painful on the eyes but:

How about Hizbollah's staged scenes, hiding amongst civilians using them as human shields and lobbing rockets loaded with bearings intentionally into civilian areas to kill and maim woman and children.

Ja, much better for helicopters or f16's to fire missiles directly into civilian shopping streets killing woman kids and bystanders. Oops, and no they didn't miss. Please do you really write this stuff? Where do you get it from?

Firstly they must remove what they are willing to die for. The destruction of Israel along with the religious extremism that pushes for it.

No rinsing required, simply repeat.

 

[chiskop]

I wonder how Iran fits this "criteria" seeing as Xarog and the posse are always coming to it's defence
...
Somehow America is worse

Congratulations alanf, you spotted a dictatorship.

I don't think Iran tries very hard to pretend to be anything else.

The point is that the US is in many respects headed down that same road. No one is saying that they are fascist, or that Bush is a dictator - but significant steps in that direction have been taken.

Oh that's right, there's a war on. That gives GWB a blanket excuse for whatever restrictions he feels like, hey? Remind me again how Iraq fits in with this war on terror? How many Iraqi hijackers were there on September 11? Or was Saddam financing it?

A long time ago the US used to be compared to the best democracies in the world, now you're having to scrape at Iran for a comparison.

 

[chiskop]

Yet you moonbats don't seem to pick it up. Ah yes remember the days when you all told us about the demorcratic freedom fighter BoB

Where did I say that?

 

[arf9999]

Yet you moonbats don't seem to pick it up. Ah yes remember the days when you all told us about the demorcratic freedom fighter BoB

You must have quite a memory, considering the fact that Bob was a "freedom fighter" (your words, not mine or from anyone else that I have seen on this site) long before you were born...

And what does it have to do with the discussion at hand? You seem unable to debate a single argument without resorting to strawman tactics. *Sigh*, maybe when you grow up.

 

[Alan]

You must have quite a memory, considering the fact that Bob was a "freedom fighter" (your words, not mine or from anyone else that I have seen on this site) long before you were born...

And what does it have to do with the discussion at hand? You seem unable to debate a single argument without resorting to strawman tactics. *Sigh*, maybe when you grow up.

Well if IIRC you're in your 30's and you haven't so maybe there is a long ways to go for me too

I was just coomenting on your moonbat habit of backing these [-]tyrants[/-] "freedom fighters" and how now suddenly we must trust your judgement on Hamas, glowing Ahemi and co....

 

[arf9999]

Well if IIRC you're in your 30's and you haven't so maybe there is a long ways to go for me too

I was just coomenting on your moonbat habit of backing these [-]tyrants[/-] "freedom fighters" and how now suddenly we must trust your judgement on Hamas, glowing Ahemi and co....

Did I only say "strawman"? Maybe it should have been "ad hominem" as well.

Edit: Show me where I have attributed a particular view to you that isn't something that you have posed yourself. By posting irrelevant comparisons and insults you only undermine your own credibility. Unfortunately it seems to be something that Kilo does as well. I don't mind a good debate, but I'm not prepared to get into the sandbox and trade insults with you anymore. You obviously are pretty passionate about these issues and if you weren't so obnoxious, selectively ignorant and narrow-minded a debate with you would be worthwhile. At the moment it isn't.

 

[bwana]

Did I only say "strawman"? Maybe it should have been "ad hominem" as well.

Well you did manage to bring his age into your post a couple times which would also qualify as an ad hominem argument.

 

[Xarog]

Well you did manage to bring his age into your post a couple times which would also qualify as an ad hominem argument.

There is one difference though; Alan leaves the ad-hominems as the sole crutch of his flights of fancy, Arf9999 did at least provide a coherent reason based argument alongside his comments about Alan's maturity.

 

[arf9999]

Well you did manage to bring his age into your post a couple times which would also qualify as an ad hominem argument.

Well ok, the second reference is probably a bit personal, but the first is directly related to Alan's "strawman" point about Mugabe. He seems to claim to remember the "moonbat(s)" (again - his term) refer to Bob as a freedom fighter... Since he is in his early twenties and Zimbabwe was "liberated" in 1981 IIRC, he cannot remember.

 

[Xarog]

Then our opinion on that matter would seem to differ.

On the flip side how many criteria would it take to prove that it wasnt Fascist America? One?

Theoretically yes. Do you have anything practical in mind, though?

 

[bwana]

Theoretically yes. Do you have anything practical in mind, though?

A fascist state would I presume require a fascist leader and nothing barring a constitutional amendment would Bush running for a third term. In fact the American people voiced their obvious displeasure with him in the last election.

America is also a bastion of capitalism which I assume doesn't gel too well with fascist ideology.

 

[nthdimension]

How is Mugabe different to the dictators and tyrants commonly supported, financed, armed and trained by various US governments?