Firearm licence

Superjakes said:
Good news! Probably one of the best feelings in the world. It makes you forget about all of the frustration you experienced the months before it...
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...until you have to go back because of the wrong name on the card. Or the wrong picture. Or the wrong serial number. Or the wrong make. Or the wrong section (this has happened to me).

I am currently battling with CFR because I want to take over a firearm from my dad (he has an old green license for it), but for some reason the serial number does not reflect on CFR's system. It has now been about 2 months without anything happening, except promises.
 
Folk please join South African Gun Owners Association SAGA
They have your back with all the changing legislation recent court case outcomes etc. affecting renewals and old green licenses (still valid pending court decision)
They will also give you advance notice on all firearm issues and they work closely with the SAP
If you carry ...you'd be wise to be a member with immediate access to them
 
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Hosehead said:
Folk please join South African Gun Owners Association SAGA
They have your back with all the changing legislation recent court case outcomes etc. affecting renewals and old green licenses (still valid pending court decision)
They will also give you advance notice on all firearm issues and they work closely with the SAP
If you carry ...you'd be wise to be a member with immediate access to them
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What is the difference between SAGA and GOSA?
 
Good news!
1. Sec 24 and 28 of FCA declared unconstitutional.
2. Parliament given 18 months to amend FCA.
3. All firearms issued ito the FCA are valid until the Constitutional Court has made a determination.
4. Respondent ordered to pay costs.

This is with regards to the SA Hunters case in the Constitutional court. Judgement just delivered.
 
Pitbull said:
Exactly this.

But to put time to it...

You need to go for proficiency training. Probably about a week of training and studying

Once completed, you get a certificate.
You then apply to SAPS for competency Your results are sent to the Firearms register via the Police station. This process can take anything from 6 weeks to 6 months

Once you receive that you can then apply for license to possess firearm. Which again stakes anything between 6 weeks to 6 months. They are however suppose to have it completed and issued within 90 working days. Which comes to about (4.5 months max)

It's a long process, but once you have the competency you don't have to do it again. I suggest you do all three in one go. I did, Handgun, Carbine and Shotgun in one go.

Carbine doubles as Rifle too iirc
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The first time I applied to get a self-defence pistol license issued (I had the green one) it took over 2 years.... I had to eventually re-apply since they could not explain what went wrong!
 
Mvu said:
Good day almal

I am looking to get myself a firearm and would like to understand the process. I think you should go for the training before going to the police to apply. Can someone please advise me? Also I think there is a training centre in Kraaifontein, is there another one close (Northern Surbabs)?
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Is this to protect yourself from your side-chick's boyfriend?
 
Superjakes said:
What is the difference between SAGA and GOSA?
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They have a similar function, as in both are "Gun Rights" organisations (similar to the NRA) as opposed to shooting discipline organisations (ie sport shooting or hunting). SAGA is the older of the two, while GOSA is fairly new to the scene.
Now I was not part of any of this, so much of what I heard is based on hearsay. Apparently at some stage it was felt that SAGA was "ineffective". This came especially after the travesty of a law that is the FCA 60 of 2000. A lot of members left SAGA because they felt that SAGA wasn't doing what they were paid for. It seems there has been a "revival" at SAGA lately. I have heard and seen a lot more from them in the last year or so compared to the previous 10 years.
Later on GOSA was founded. I don't know if its founders are ex-SAGA, or just people who didn't want to join SAGA because they don't agree with the mission statement. I don't know and won't speculate. I know GOSA started off working off of donations and they had some early success against SAPS in court. They now have a formalised membership structure.
I don't know enough to to compare membership between these organisations.

What I do know is that both organisations are fighting the good fight. There are SAGA members that dislike GOSA, and GOSA members that dislike SAGA. I think this is counter-productive. There is definitely room for both, and if they work together they can achieve great things. I believe that is why we now have things like the Firearms Dealers Association and the Sport Shooting Forum. The first is to represent the interests of the various firearms dealers, while the second is to get the various sport shooting and hunting disciplines around the same table to discuss common issues.
 
vic777 said:
The first time I applied to get a self-defence pistol license issued (I had the green one) it took over 2 years.... I had to eventually re-apply since they could not explain what went wrong!
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There was some kind of ruling or commitment from the Police that it will not take longer than 90 working days now. You still have the odd hick-up but generally it's sorted well within the 90 working days. Bar some delays which are unavoidable.
 
AntennaMan said:
Good news!
1. Sec 24 and 28 of FCA declared unconstitutional.
2. Parliament given 18 months to amend FCA.
3. All firearms issued ito the FCA are valid until the Constitutional Court has made a determination.
4. Respondent ordered to pay costs.

This is with regards to the SA Hunters case in the Constitutional court. Judgement just delivered.
Click to expand...

Please explain this to us in more detail?
 
Pitbull said:
There was some kind of ruling or commitment from the Police that it will not take longer than 90 working days now. You still have the odd hick-up but generally it's sorted well within the 90 working days. Bar some delays which are unavoidable.
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Second time it took 2 months and I had everything.
 
Pitbull said:
Please explain this to us in more detail?
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Section 24 deals with the renewal of licenses. This is the section that states that S13 licenses must be renewed every 5 years, while other sections must be renewed every 10 years. It also states that you must apply for a renewal 90 days before the current license expires.

Section 28 states that a license is terminated if you pass the expiry date without renewing it.

This court case was launched last year after SAPS decided (without any consultation) to stop accepting late renewals (ie you can renew but you have to explain why you were late). SA Hunters (and various other organisations) took SAPS to court, arguing that the entire renewal part of the act is unconstitutional.

Now I don't have any details on the exact argument, but comments from the judge during the case in April, made it sound like he/she agreed. Apparently at the time SAPS could not make a proper case to defend those sections of the Act.

This morning at 10h, the judge delivered his verdict(?)/statement, declaring those sections as unconstitutional and that it should be revised.

Now I'm guessing that the argument is that if the license has an expiry date, and you pass it, the license should not just become invalid. You should pay some administration fine (similar to when applying late for drivers license/tv license/motor vehicle license) and continue on. SAPS also has the tendency to want to confiscate firearms if the license has expired. This goes directly against our constitutional right to own property.

I'm sure that in the coming days/weeks we will find out more about this ruling and how it affects us. But overall this is a step in the right direction as the FCA 60 is one of the most badly written pieces of legislation to ever see the light of day.
 
I got screwed over, did everything right for my competency, passed my tests full and applied at DFO, it went all the way to the CFR after 8 weeks of phoning, thy told me it's being sent back to my DFO cause there's something wrong with me application.. I'm 100% certain everything was right
 
AntennaMan said:
Section 24 deals with the renewal of licenses. This is the section that states that S13 licenses must be renewed every 5 years, while other sections must be renewed every 10 years. It also states that you must apply for a renewal 90 days before the current license expires.

Section 28 states that a license is terminated if you pass the expiry date without renewing it.

This court case was launched last year after SAPS decided (without any consultation) to stop accepting late renewals (ie you can renew but you have to explain why you were late). SA Hunters (and various other organisations) took SAPS to court, arguing that the entire renewal part of the act is unconstitutional.

Now I don't have any details on the exact argument, but comments from the judge during the case in April, made it sound like he/she agreed. Apparently at the time SAPS could not make a proper case to defend those sections of the Act.

This morning at 10h, the judge delivered his verdict(?)/statement, declaring those sections as unconstitutional and that it should be revised.

Now I'm guessing that the argument is that if the license has an expiry date, and you pass it, the license should not just become invalid. You should pay some administration fine (similar to when applying late for drivers license/tv license/motor vehicle license) and continue on. SAPS also has the tendency to want to confiscate firearms if the license has expired. This goes directly against our constitutional right to own property.

I'm sure that in the coming days/weeks we will find out more about this ruling and how it affects us. But overall this is a step in the right direction as the FCA 60 is one of the most badly written pieces of legislation to ever see the light of day.
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Am I correct in assuming this still does not cover the issue of older licences issued before these changes which were issued for life?
 
Will it help at all if I have a friend that I went to school with, and he owns a gunshop, provides the training, and knows the people in the process?
 
Pitbull said:
Am I correct in assuming this still does not cover the issue of older licences issued before these changes which were issued for life?
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There is still an SA Hunters court case from 2009 that is pending. While it is, ALL "green" (ID book type) licenses remain valid. This is even the case if you have applied for a white license for the same firearm. Just make sure you keep the ID with the old green license in it. You can even apply to have your green license reprinted.
 
SkippyRamirez said:
Will it help at all if I have a friend that I went to school with, and he owns a gunshop, provides the training, and knows the people in the process?
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It will help, but don't believe everything you hear at a gunshop. I have heard some of the worst advice ever given, coming from owners and workers at gunshops. There is a wealth of (actual) information at gunsite.co.za
If you join over there, remember to post an introduction before doing anything else. Try and search for the answer before asking the question (the licensing issue has been discussed ad nauseam). Try to read more and post less. Because of the serious nature of the topic, tolerance is low for idiots and trolls. Serious questions and topics will be discussed and you can learn a lot.
 
AntennaMan said:
It will help, but don't believe everything you hear at a gunshop. I have heard some of the worst advice ever given, coming from owners and workers at gunshops. There is a wealth of (actual) information at gunsite.co.za
If you join over there, remember to post an introduction before doing anything else. Try and search for the answer before asking the question (the licensing issue has been discussed ad nauseam). Try to read more and post less. Because of the serious nature of the topic, tolerance is low for idiots and trolls. Serious questions and topics will be discussed and you can learn a lot.
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Good points, thanks. I'm also seriously thinking about going through the process.
 
Pitbull said:
Am I correct in assuming this still does not cover the issue of older licences issued before these changes which were issued for life?
Click to expand...

AntennaMan said:
There is still an SA Hunters court case from 2009 that is pending. While it is, ALL "green" (ID book type) licenses remain valid. This is even the case if you have applied for a white license for the same firearm. Just make sure you keep the ID with the old green license in it. You can even apply to have your green license reprinted.
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I still have the license card - "license for life" issued in 1993. In between ID book & before this latest nonsense.
 
Trompie67 said:
I still have the license card - "license for life" issued in 1993. Interim step after ID book & before this latest nonsense.
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I believe that falls under the "green" license. If I am not mistaken, it was issued under the old Arms and Ammo Act of 1968 (or something like that)?
 
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