Firearm licence

AntennaMan said:
I believe that falls under the "green" license. If I am not mistaken, it was issued under the old Arms and Ammo Act of 1968 (or something like that)?
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Dangerous weapons Act I think it was called.!
 
AntennaMan said:
The process is daunting when starting out, but manageable. If you have any questions, you are welcome to PM me.
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Thank you:)

I have one question though, might be a stupid one. What is the etiquette / law around carrying the firearm on your person? I assume it should not be visible. What if you get in your car to go to the shops and so on and then decide to go to a mall for instance? Do you have to declare it when entering the mall? Sorry if its a dumb question.
 
SkippyRamirez said:
Thank you:)

I have one question though, might be a stupid one. What is the etiquette / law around carrying the firearm on your person? I assume it should not be visible. What if you get in your car to go to the shops and so on and then decide to go to a mall for instance? Do you have to declare it when entering the mall? Sorry if its a dumb question.
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Not a dumb question at all.

The law states that if you are carrying a firearm on you, it should either be covered (not concealed, in a holster covered by your shirt is good enough according to the law, concealed is better, element of surprise and all that) when on your person, or in a suitable bag or case (for instance you can't carry a rifle covered, so put it in a proper bag).

Most malls and such places will have a "No guns allowed" sign. But those signs do not designate the premise as being a "Gun Free Zone". At best, if spotted, the owners can claim "Right of Admission Reserved" and ask you to leave. They can't arrest you out of hand. If they ask you to leave, do it immediately. If you don't leave after being requested to do so, they can claim that you are trespassing.

Some places are gun-free in the sense that they have metal detectors and won't allow you to enter the property with a firearm. SARS does this with all of their offices. Still not official gun-free zones, they just enforce "Right of Admission Reserved" policy strictly.

To be declared a Gun Free Zone, you have to apply with the Minister for Police, and it must be Gazetted in the Government Gazette. To date, only government offices has been declared gun free, but more because they are "National Keypoints".

Most casinos have gun safes available were you can temporarily store your firearm.

Whatever you do, do not leave your firearm unattended in your car, unless you have a SABS approved firearm safe fitted in your car.
 
May I ask a quick question - a family member applied for the new white licence for their gun. It has since expired. The family member still has the green licence as well as the expired white licence. Any advice?
 
Dianysis said:
May I ask a quick question - a family member applied for the new white licence for their gun. It has since expired. The family member still has the green licence as well as the expired white licence. Any advice?
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Green license is still valid, just make sure to keep it close by. Today's Constitutional Court ruling says that expired white licenses are valid until parliament amend the FCA.
 
AntennaMan said:
Green license is still valid, just make sure to keep it close by. Today's Constitutional Court ruling says that expired white licenses are valid until parliament amend the FCA.
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Thanks. The two licences are kept together in a safe place. So am I correct in assuming that once the FCA is amended the family member will be able to renew the licence, at a fee of course?
 
Dianysis said:
Thanks. The two licences are kept together in a safe place. So am I correct in assuming that once the FCA is amended the family member will be able to renew the licence, at a fee of course?
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Don't know. Parliament must amend the law. The court can't say in which way it must be amended. Only time will tell. The scenario I mentioned above is only what I think is the most obvious way it might happen.
 
AntennaMan said:
Don't know. Parliament must amend the law. The court can't say in which way it must be amended. Only time will tell. The scenario I mentioned above is only what I think is the most obvious way it might happen.
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I hope so. Thank for taking the time to reply.
 
This whole renewal thing is just a money making racket tbh. Issue it for live, wth is the problem...
 
Some seriously good advice given above... Including the into needed for gunsite- they take that stuff way too seriously IMO :D

For anyone waiting for their card to be printed, try calling Paulus in the printing dpt (he's a really nice guy):
012 353 6937 / 012 353 6000 / 012 353 6116

I would also suggest that before one goes out spends money on mods/holsters to/for his/her gun, training, training and more training should be done.
 
AntennaMan said:
Green license is still valid, just make sure to keep it close by. Today's Constitutional Court ruling says that expired white licenses are valid until parliament amend the FCA.
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This is not just semantics, but the case has not been to the constitutional court yet - this ruling was made in the high court.
 
Dear member,
Congratulations must be extended to SA Hunters for their winning of a very positive verdict in their court case regarding the constitutionality of Sections 24 and 28 of the Firearms Control Act, 2000 (Act 60 of 2000) (Section 24 and 28 refers to renewal of firearm licences).
This court case was heard in the Pretoria High Court on 25 and 26 April 2017 (see our Neswletter 12(20) dated 18-3-2016).
Judge RG Tolmay on 4 July 2017, issued the following order following the above-mentioned court case: (chapter numbers in her verdict indicated below)
68.1 Section 24 and 28 of the Firearms Control Act, 2000 (Act 60 of 2000) are hereby declared unconstitutional;
68.2 Parliament is given 18 months within which to effect the amendment of the Act in order to ensure constitutional compliance;
68.3 All firearms issued in terms of the Firearms Control Act, 2000 (Act 60 of 2000), which are or were due to be renewed in terms of Section 24 of the Firearms Control Act, 2000 (Act 60 of 2000), shall be deemed to be valid, until the Constitutional Court has made its determination on the constitutionality of the aforesaid Sections; and
68.4 The Respondent is ordered to pay the cost of the applicant, which cost will include the costs of two counsel.
We advise that members should please not jump to what could amount to possibly inapplicable conclusions from the above-mentioned order.
Our legal team is busy studying the whole verdict and we shall advise the detail of the implications of Judge Tolmay’s order, from a legal perspective within the next 48 hours.
The only sure conclusion we can draw, without first letting our legal team study all the practical implications of the order, is to say that those persons who forgot to renew their white licences on time, are in the clear, and are not illegally in possession of the firearms they did not renew (or renewed late).
But please also take note that the practical arrangements implied by the order, will also have bearing on how SAPS will manage the renewal of firearm licences as from today. They will have to issue new directives in this regard (we shall advise the moment we know).
Parliament is given 18 months to make the necessary amendments, and then the Constitutional Court will have to decide on the constitutionality of those amendments (the whole process could thus go beyond 18 months).
We have no indication as to how SAPS will manage the implied process changes, and we do not know what will happen with firearms, which were handed in by persons for destruction or for safe keeping in relation to the renewal of firearms licences.
There are thus several practical issues, which first must be clarified before we can give sure advice and guidance on all the implications brought about by the Court Order (the road is thus still long and hard).
In the end, the verdict is in every firearm owner’s favour (just like the 2009 court order was re the validity of green licences). Well done SA Hunters (again !).
Please be patient as to the what, when, and how, we shall advise.

Regards
Herman Els

This Email + the Court's full Verdict posted as Newsletter 13(19) on the Natshoot website
 
Interesting article on the firearm renewal. Following this thread.
 
Yes, great news about today's High Court ruling in North Gauteng.

The whole firearms admin process at SAPS is in disarray. The Central Firearms Registry office is seriously dysfunctional.

Apart from that, current legislation is contradictory. The learned judge ruled that, following approval by the Constitutional Court, parliament has 18 months to fix the law.

In the meantime things continue to fall apart. I submitted an ordinary renewal application (rifle and shotgun) on 11 January (have had them for decades), but so far no word. The local SAPS Firearms Officer told me today that the renewal application is "with Provincial". I'm in the Western Cape.

Ah well.
 
Arthur said:
Yes, great news about today's High Court ruling in North Gauteng.

The whole firearms admin process at SAPS is in disarray. The Central Firearms Registry office is seriously dysfunctional.

Apart from that, current legislation is contradictory. The learned judge ruled that, following approval by the Constitutional Court, parliament has 18 months to fix the law.

In the meantime things continue to fall apart. I submitted an ordinary renewal application (rifle and shotgun) on 11 January (have had them for decades), but so far no word. The local SAPS Firearms Officer told me today that the renewal application is "with Provincial". I'm in the Western Cape.

Ah well.
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Well, at least for now it is a moot point. Until something changes (ie a successful appeal by the state) or parliament fixes this mess, no renewals necessary. I wonder how long it is going to take for news of this to filter down to the lower ranks of SAPS. I don't want to get in a roadside argument with a SAPS peon if my license card shows it has expired, trying to explain this judgement to him/her.
 
AntennaMan said:
Whatever you do, do not leave your firearm unattended in your car, unless you have a SABS approved firearm safe fitted in your car.
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Competency manual states in a safe on premises under your direct control.
So technically it might be unlawful to use other temporary safes belonging to other people
To store your registered firearm. Cars can be moved- towed , broken into or stolen. Your vehicle is not under your
Control when you are locked up and parked off your dwelling.
It's not even lawful to keep your weapon in your father-in-laws safe
His safe -his keys.
During competency training you ll learn all the dos and do nots
 
Hosehead said:
Competency manual states in a safe on premises under your direct control.
So technically it might be unlawful to use other temporary safes belonging to other people
To store your registered firearm. Cars can be moved- towed , broken into or stolen. Your vehicle is not under your
Control when you are locked up and parked off your dwelling.
It's not even lawful to keep your weapon in your father-in-laws safe
His safe -his keys.
During competency training you ll learn all the dos and do nots
Click to expand...

No, it states that only you must have access to the firearm when stored in an approved safe. At the casino, there is a single key for each of their gun safes. I have used the ones at Monte Casino on many occasions.

And yes, cars can be stolen, broken into and towed away. But if you have a car safe installed that complies with the necessary SABS standard, and the installer provides you with a certificate, then you are good to go. It helps if you take it to your DFO for him to "inspect", but by law you don't have to. Yes, your firearm will be stolen with the vehicle, but at least SAPS can't accuse you of negligence as you complied with the letter of the law. I know that Nissi Safes manufactures and install SABS approved car safes, but I'm sure there are others as well.
 
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