First Aid Fun...

Pitbull said:
Chocking on his vomit = Turn him on his side
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That's called the recovery position Pitbull.

Pitbull said:
You only remove the helmet if you need to give CPR, there is no exclusions to this rule ever.
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Which is why I said (quite a few times) it depends on the situation! :mad: Some helmets, getting the guys mouth open is almost impossible if its on, which is why "depends on the situation" comes up again.
 
AcidRaZor said:
His airways might be clear but his brains would be all over the floor?
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See the biggest problem with this is not so much a broken scull (Yes this does happen and bikers can die from it. However it's in the design of helmets.)

The helmet if it fits correctly takes some force to remove. Even if there are 2 people taking the helmet off, if the biker has a broken neck, you will actually be pulling his head inside the helmet towards you and his neck is broken.

Even with the helmet loose, it takes a rather big force to remove the helmet. Holding the neck and shoulders does nothing as the force is moving from their shoulders towards the head, you cant keep the head close to the body and remove the helmet without that force and there is no way the 2nd person can counter that force.
 
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gdiza said:
That's called the recovery position Pitbull.



Which is why I said (quite a few times) it depends on the situation! :mad: Some helmets, getting the guys mouth open is almost impossible if its on, which is why "depends on the situation" comes up again.
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hehe,

I'm not saying your training was of sub standard. I'm furious as to the training they provide at level 3. They should be mentioning the "Do not remove helmet" leave it to the doctors at that level. I can see this being more fitting at ALS level and so forth. Not level 3.
 
Can't you use one of those airbag thingies? Stick the thing in his mouth and someone pumps air and like you do the whole "Grab her titties and squeez" bit?
 
gdiza said:
Time you went and did a proper first aid course boet. ;)

Basically, it all depends on the situation, the idea here is to remove the helmet (if you have more than 1 person) so that the guy doesn't puke (which happens most times) so you can clear his airways (putting him in the recovery position) or if you would need to do CPR on the victim.
If you're 1 person, taking the helmet off is not advised, you need 2 people and it's slow, but it all depends on the situation.

You can't do CPR on someone who has the helmet on and you can't keep his airways clear with a freaking helmet on...
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When a patient has a suspected head injury - you dislocate his jaw to clear the airway. - Obviously with a full helmet on this wont help you much either.
 
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AcidRaZor said:
Can't you use one of those airbag thingies? Stick the thing in his mouth and someone pumps air and like you do the whole "Grab her titties and squeez" bit?
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Nope - blocked airway will result in you either blowing air into his stomach, or air going nowhere.
 
Pitbull said:
WHAT KINDA OF A FA COURSE IS THIS?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdiza/3955985338/

WTF? You never remove a helmet from a person that had an accident :mad:

Seriously, WTF? :confused:
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This is what I thought too. Many years ago I was flying in a microlight rally. One day the wind was really pumping. We came whistling through this isolated valley (with the wind) and the plane in front of me (different model with a ‘canard’ wing) broke this wing and went spiralling down onto some rocks. Oh sh**t, I would have to go down and check on him. I landed my plane – the wind was so strong (you land into the wind) that I had to land with thrust (otherwise I would go backwards). I basically hovered down, landed the plane and hurried towards the crash site. I looked back and saw that the wind had blown my plane over (they’re very light). I thought “Well, he’s probably dead and I still have to get out of here”. I returned, tied my plane down properly and made my way again to the crash site (not hurrying – I’m squeamish about blood ‘n guts).

To my surprise he was conscious and OK (broken arm is all). He was lying in the wreckage amongst the rocks. I lit us both a cigarette and we considered what to do. He was really anti me removing his helmet (or moving him around) in case it severed his spinal cord (if he had a broken neck). I agreed. There was not much I could do. I had some suck sweets in my pocket which I left with him. I pulled some aircraft fabric over him in case he had to spend the night (there were questions from the accident investigators about this). The moral of the story is that we both concurred about removing his helmet. We had heard that you should never do this.
 
Voicy said:
Nope - blocked airway will result in you either blowing air into his stomach, or air going nowhere.
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I know that but I also know if you do that you did it wrong with the airbag thingy. Scrubs FTW!
 
Hi all
I’m very new here but first aid and fire-fighting are passions of mine so felt it necessary to post on this topic.

The removal of helmet is a dangerous and difficult maneuver to perform under the best of circumstances and should NOT be attempted by anyone without the proper training.

Note: DONT use bystanders for this

HOWEVER

If as a result of the tight fit of the helmet vomit or fluids cannot drain and as a result are blocking the airway the helmet may be removed
As that is a life threatening situation.

Especially if the patient is unconscious.

IF the patient is conscious but complaining of difficulty breathing you may lift the visor AFTER taking c-spine in order to allow more air in.

The following comes from a st johns first aid course
Removing a Crash Helmet
• "Practice makes perfect". Make sure that the first time you perform crash helmet removal it is not at the scene of an accident. Regular practice and skills update sessions will help you become more proficient.
• Do not move an injured motorcyclist unless they are in immediate danger - they may have neck or back injuries.
• Only remove a crash helmet if the casualty has difficulty breathing, is not breathing or is vomiting.
• Two people are needed to remove a full-face crash helmet safely. One is required to support the head and neck at all times, the other to lift and ease off the crash helmet.
• Undo or ideally cut the straps.
• Support the neck with one hand and hold the lower jaw.
• Working from the base of the crash helmet, ease your fingers underneath the rim. Ask the person helping you to hold the crash helmet with both hands.
• Ask the helper, working from above to tilt the crash helmet backwards (try not to move the head at all) and gently lift the front clear of the casualty's chin.
• Continue to support the casualty's neck and lower jaw. Ask your helper to tilt the crash helmet forwards slightly so that it will pass over the the base of the skull, and then lift straight off the casualty's head.
This information should only be used in conjunction with the St John Ambulance First Aid for Motorcyclists course.
Copyright St.John Ambulance 2004
http://www.bikergroove.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=60&Itemid=95

Please if there are any level 5 /bls or als please correct me if I’m wrong but I doubt it
Also any emt with actual experience of this situation id love to hear your opinion and experience and suggestions.
 
gdiza said:
I'm going to enquire Metro Ambulances about being an observer on the ambulances - learn things.

If anyone here knows anyone, has any contracts regarding this "being a observer" (which I can only basically do) then please contact me.
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I have a friend who does volunteer work an ambulances. You can PM me for his details.
 
hawk_za said:
Hi all
I’m very new here but first aid and fire-fighting are passions of mine so felt it necessary to post on this topic.

The removal of helmet is a dangerous and difficult maneuver to perform under the best of circumstances and should NOT be attempted by anyone without the proper training.

Note: DONT use bystanders for this

HOWEVER

If as a result of the tight fit of the helmet vomit or fluids cannot drain and as a result are blocking the airway the helmet may be removed
As that is a life threatening situation.

Especially if the patient is unconscious.

IF the patient is conscious but complaining of difficulty breathing you may lift the visor AFTER taking c-spine in order to allow more air in.

The following comes from a st johns first aid course
Removing a Crash Helmet
• "Practice makes perfect". Make sure that the first time you perform crash helmet removal it is not at the scene of an accident. Regular practice and skills update sessions will help you become more proficient.
• Do not move an injured motorcyclist unless they are in immediate danger - they may have neck or back injuries.
• Only remove a crash helmet if the casualty has difficulty breathing, is not breathing or is vomiting.
• Two people are needed to remove a full-face crash helmet safely. One is required to support the head and neck at all times, the other to lift and ease off the crash helmet.
• Undo or ideally cut the straps.
• Support the neck with one hand and hold the lower jaw.
• Working from the base of the crash helmet, ease your fingers underneath the rim. Ask the person helping you to hold the crash helmet with both hands.
• Ask the helper, working from above to tilt the crash helmet backwards (try not to move the head at all) and gently lift the front clear of the casualty's chin.
• Continue to support the casualty's neck and lower jaw. Ask your helper to tilt the crash helmet forwards slightly so that it will pass over the the base of the skull, and then lift straight off the casualty's head.
This information should only be used in conjunction with the St John Ambulance First Aid for Motorcyclists course.
Copyright St.John Ambulance 2004
http://www.bikergroove.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=60&Itemid=95

Please if there are any level 5 /bls or als please correct me if I’m wrong but I doubt it
Also any emt with actual experience of this situation id love to hear your opinion and experience and suggestions.
Click to expand...

I'm with you on this, do you honestly think they should be teaching this to a level 3 ?

BLS and ALS yes by all means, but I for the life of me can not see a level 3 doing this without risking the patient's life. Even if he's vomitting, you can have him turned on his side with full head and back support making him vomit out of the Visor. If he's chocking and the removal of the strap is not working or if he's not breathing I will say is the only exclusions to this rule. Or if he is capable of removing it himself allow HIM to do it but after warning him that it's prob better to leave it on till after the Cat Scan.
 
For those who care;

I've arranged with Netcare 911 and in conjunction with them, they have allowed VWS to send 10 members on "RIDE ALONGS" with them which is basically a 12 hour shift starting at 6:30pm and ending at 7am the following morning.

Last weekend saw 4 VWS members do RA's.

This coming weekend, more members are going, including...

*drum roll*

MYSELF (Friday!)

Friday the 13th...

I wont lie hey... I'm sorta nervous as hell!

Basically because, last weeks' RA's saw 1 'shift' losing 2 people (dying)

Hectic stuff this... I can't even imagine how these paramedics do what they do and stay SANE!

Oh, before I get asked, NO pictures will be taken on the RA's. :(
 
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