First time motorcycle insurance

[Sir Peel-a-Lot]

Any advice here much appreciated.

I'm in my 40's and looking to do my LONG overdue motorcycle learner's. I don't have a bike yet, but just trying to gather some information on a ballpark figure of what annual insurance would be for a 500/650cc parallel twin ADV motorcycle of somebody my age who has never owned a bike before. I've been a mountain biker all my life, so this somewhat translates as far as learning to ride a motorcycle goes. I'd be getting insurance, initially, with only a learner's licence. Bike would live in an access-controlled complex, but outside.

Just doing an exercise on whether it's worth selling my smaller city car and going the bike route, or would I end up paying more for the bike per year, considering insurance, maintenance, consumables like tyres etc etc. I'm comfortable servicing most stuff on the bike bar the engine. The bike would probably see ~5000kms per year, mostly road, some fire paths or light off-road. My car has seen about the same mileage the last few years.

I know these questions are a bit like "how long is a piece of string", but any feedback welcomed.

TIA

 

[SauRoNZA]

You’ll get nailed for having a license under 2 years.

Either on premium or excess structure where you’ll get loaded an extra 5% of claim for a learners and another 5% if it’s a full license under tw9 years.

Your age might bring the premium down a bit especially if it’s bundled with your other insurance and not stand alone.

5% of the value of the bike per year would be a premium.

So I would imagine worst case is 10% per year.

Mileage is irrelevant.

Most accurate answer is simply look for a bike and send the details to your broker for a quote if you were fully licensed.

I highly recommend doing training first to see if it’s for you (it’s not for many people and they try to force it and then hurt themselves and then get your license so you can do test rides before you buy.

Also, helmet, jacket and gloves at the minimum in your budget.

 

[Sir Peel-a-Lot]

Thanks. That's very helpful. Yeah I've factored in helmet, jacket, gloves, boots & pants.

So if I read your reply correctly, on a used bike of R60000 say, worst case scenario, R6000 per year insurance as a ballpark? Or is that ~R6000 the extra you're talking about on top of the standard insurance, whatever that might be?

 

[wizardofid]

Any advice here much appreciated.

I'm in my 40's and looking to do my LONG overdue motorcycle learner's. I don't have a bike yet, but just trying to gather some information on a ballpark figure of what annual insurance would be for a 500/650cc parallel twin ADV motorcycle of somebody my age who has never owned a bike before. I've been a mountain biker all my life, so this somewhat translates as far as learning to ride a motorcycle goes. I'd be getting insurance, initially, with only a learner's licence. Bike would live in an access-controlled complex, but outside.

Just doing an exercise on whether it's worth selling my smaller city car and going the bike route, or would I end up paying more for the bike per year, considering insurance, maintenance, consumables like tyres etc etc. I'm comfortable servicing most stuff on the bike bar the engine. The bike would probably see ~5000kms per year, mostly road, some fire paths or light off-road. My car has seen about the same mileage the last few years.

I know these questions are a bit like "how long is a piece of string", but any feedback welcomed.

TIA

If you never owned a bike, 500/650cc doesn't seem like a lot, but it is still an insane amount of power, it is nowhere close to "mountain biking" or anything "two wheeled". While on mountain bike everything is trying to kill you, on a motorcycle everything is trying to kill you but just much faster...... so no pedal power doesn't translate to horsepower, not even close. If you can find out about clubs in your area, they will give you the lay of the land quickly, they are also well informed with regards to routes and all the stuff you might need to know, if you don't want to do that, invest in an advance driving course, especially as a first time rider.

 

[Sir Peel-a-Lot]

By translates I meant with regards to having never ridden anything two wheeled. It's far harder to learn to ride a bike if you've never ridden one of any kind. 650cc is not a lot of power if you have a responsible mindset, and choose the correct bike with linear power delivery, rather than an inline 4 engine or something crazy like that.

 

[Ϲhristopher]

Don't forget to check if it impacts your life insurance.

 

[wizardofid]

By translates I meant with regards to having never ridden anything two wheeled. It's far harder to learn to ride a bike if you've never ridden one of any kind. 650cc is not a lot of power if you have a responsible mindset, and choose the correct bike with linear power delivery, rather than an inline 4 engine or something crazy like that.

Your funeral.....take it from someone that has driven bikes before, the faster the bike, the quicker it gets you into sticky situations........but don't listen to me, I am sure someone else will tell you exactly that. You are much older than people that started out early, that have much better situational awareness and can read traffic a lot better, it is way different in that, drivers in cars often don't register motorcycles having cocky confidence that 650cc for a middle age first time driver isn't a lot is a sure fire way to end up in the ER or worse. It is rather a matter of "when" not "if"............."mindset" and "responsible" has nothing to do with it, shyte happens and it will happen to you, which is why, the suggestion of advance driving course or joining up with a club was my recommendation..............

But whatever like I said it is your funeral, hope you have a policy for that as well........go with full leathers, then you don't have to worry about a body bag, you are already in one, any old biker will tell you how quickly you can lock the back brakes even at low speed and either go into a skid or get thrown from a bike, then of course you get tank slappers as well, less common on newer bikes but still a thing.....get training mate.......

 

[Leitmotif]

Meh. A lot of people advise against starting on 600+cc bikes. They're not looking at context. There's a lot of distance between a CBR 600 and a DR 650.

The only real benefits to starting small are that it's cheap, usually light and you won't have the temptation of twisting the throttle and yeeting yourself to the moon. In this case, I'm thinking it's the first and second that are applicable, but much like some responses in this thread, a lot of what should be wiser heads assume it's all about the last, because when you say "600" they immediately think "sportsbike" and not "something that has serious trouble exceeding 160".

A 650 ADV probably means something like a KLR or DR 650, and the only way someone's ending up in the hospital on the former is if the heavy bastard thing falls on them. Then again, parallel twin was mentioned, and I'm not even sure what the hell that might describe in the 650cc range since the Vstrom is a v-twin and the Tuareg is way too expensive; the Tenere is the next closest but is nowhere near 60k. The GS 650 is another single, far as I recall. None of these are exactly hooligan machines. Maybe the CB 500X? Are they already that cheap second hand?

Regardless, the best way is to get your learners at least; a learners doesn't seem to be an impediment for insurance, it's more about when you were first licensed and how many claims you've had in the past couple of years. That means you're unavoidably going to suffer on the first criterion, and the only cure is time.

If you're still considering selling your car... reconsider, unless you have a partner who can fetch stuff, drop people off and whose ride you can occasionally swipe on those days when you don't feel up to the mental effort of riding.

 

[wizardofid]

Meh. A lot of people advise against starting on 600+cc bikes. They're not looking at context. There's a lot of distance between a CBR 600 and a DR 650.

The only real benefits to starting small are that it's cheap, usually light and you won't have the temptation of twisting the throttle and yeeting yourself to the moon. In this case, I'm thinking it's the first and second that are applicable, but much like some responses in this thread, a lot of what should be wiser heads assume it's all about the last, because when you say "600" they immediately think "sportsbike" and not "something that has serious trouble exceeding 160".

A 650 ADV probably means something like a KLR or DR 650, and the only way someone's ending up in the hospital on the former is if the heavy bastard thing falls on them. Then again, parallel twin was mentioned, and I'm not even sure what the hell that might describe in the 650cc range since the Vstrom is a v-twin and the Tuareg is way too expensive; the Tenere is the next closest but is nowhere near 60k. The GS 650 is another single, far as I recall. None of these are exactly hooligan machines. Maybe the CB 500X? Are they already that cheap second hand?

Regardless, the best way is to get your learners at least; a learners doesn't seem to be an impediment for insurance, it's more about when you were first licensed and how many claims you've had in the past couple of years. That means you're unavoidably going to suffer on the first criterion, and the only cure is time.

If you're still considering selling your car... reconsider, unless you have a partner who can fetch stuff, drop people off and whose ride you can occasionally swipe on those days when you don't feel up to the mental effort of riding.

I did always like the GS600 but was too rich for my blood, settled on the poorman's version, GSF 600. It is still one of my favorite series at the time and now still, the retro bare look still looks awesome. Not sure you can really compared the two, as the GSF is more a city runner, but still, the bikes in our friend group ranged from a VFR, a slingshot, my GSF and the shortest member of our group, decided on getting a GSX R1000, that thing scared the shyte out of me all of them eventually like my self "retired" from biking.....




I think you are under the impression I am against it, I merely pointed out getting ANY bike for the most part, unprepared you will see your ass god damn guaranteed. You can be the best rider in the world, smack a pothole and game over with our roads being so shyte and drivers even worse, recommending taking an advance driving course isn't the worse thing ever.

Can you raise your hand and say you NEVER had a tumble or a near miss EVER, if the answer is yes you haven't been riding long enough clearly. I gave up riding for a reason. First time rider as a 40 year old, that is just asking for trouble.......

Things go south quickly, whether you have a speed demon, or a fisher price build it your self......Just think it is a bad idea for a first time rider especially something over 600cc to go in blindly without some form of training, that is all. I wish him the best in what ever bike he gets......I rather not be the one to say, told you so........

 

[Sir Peel-a-Lot]

Just think it is a bad idea for a first time rider especially something over 600cc to go in blindly without some form of training, that is all. I wish him the best in what ever bike he gets......I rather not be the one to say, told you so........

All good advice, and thanks. As far as situational awareness goes, I lived way outside, and worked in Central London, West End area for 20 years, and commuted every single day rain or shine by bicycle: road bike, MTB, you name 'em. The most serious accident I ever had in those 20 years of dodging hundreds of cars, black cabs, dozens of illegal rickshaws, trucks, buses, pedestrians, tourists, people with selfie sticks etc etc, in sometimes atrocious weather, was a bruised shoulder from hitting a pothole, on a quiet street in the suburbs. Lucky, yes, but I think that would hone anyone's eyes for two-wheeled commuting.

There is lots of advice out there from seasoned motorcycle riders who say not to listen to those that say 500/650cc plus is too much power for a beginner. It really comes down to how responsible the rider is. And of course I intend to do plenty of lessons. I'm not an animal.

A 650cc engine is generally a gentler and more linear power delivery than 600cc inline 4 engine like a Yamaha FZ6 Fazer, which makes a whopping 90 BHP, which is why I'm steering clear of 600cc supersport engines or the like. A bigger engine doesn't necessarily mean more power. Engineering wise, it's to do with the way that engine delivers the power. There are many engines of different displacements, like 250 or 400cc sport bikes that both make ~30 bhp for example. Having more power is also a good thing to get you out of sticky situations, like being rear-ended. A 150 isn't gonna comply when a car is hurtling up behind you, failing to stop.

 

[Scooby_Doo]

Klr 650. Great bike to learn on.

 

[Sir Peel-a-Lot]

Klr 650. Great bike to learn on.

And only makes about 35 BHP. Whereas a V-Strom 650 makes in the region of 70 BHP.

 

[wizardofid]

All good advice, and thanks. As far as situational awareness goes, I lived way outside, and worked in Central London, West End area for 20 years, and commuted every single day rain or shine by bicycle: road bike, MTB, you name 'em. The most serious accident I ever had in those 20 years of dodging hundreds of cars, black cabs, dozens of illegal rickshaws, trucks, buses, pedestrians, tourists, people with selfie sticks etc etc, in sometimes atrocious weather, was a bruised shoulder from hitting a pothole, on a quiet street in the suburbs. Lucky, yes, but I think that would hone anyone's eyes for two-wheeled commuting.

There is lots of advice out there from seasoned motorcycle riders who say not to listen to those that say 500/650cc plus is too much power for a beginner. It really comes down to how responsible the rider is. And of course I intend to do plenty of lessons. I'm not an animal.

A 650cc engine is generally a gentler and more linear power delivery that 600cc inline 4 engine like a Yamaha FZ6 Fazer, which is why I'm steering clear of 600cc sport bikes or the like. A bigger engine doesn't necessarily mean more power. Engineering wise, it's to do with the way that engine delivers the power. There are many engines of different displacements, like 250 or 400cc sport bikes that both make ~30 bhp for example. Having more power is also a good thing to get you out of sticky situations, like being rear-ended. A 150 isn't gonna comply when a car is hurtling up behind you, failing to stop.

As I said before, bike riding does not translate motorcycle riding it is two entirely different things, motorcycle has a higher micromort compared to cycling, cycling has a micromort of 5 per 100miles versus motorcycle at 15 micomort , versus a car at half a micromort even just walking has 6 micromort, just to put it into perspective. I don't have a problem with the bike, I have a problem with your age as a beginner......it is unfounded either, between ages 25 - 29 account for the most accidents, where as 40's upwards account for the highest fatalities rates.

Given your age and a beginner, the odds are definitely not in your favor.... your avoidance and reaction time has significantly slowed and with no former training or experience it could be much, much worse. Given your age and a beginner with no prior experience, 600cc + is a lot of power, age is a huuuuuuuge ass factor here. Sorry to say you are much more likely to be involved in a accident to someone with prior experience, that is just fact. Take heed to being a significant risk.

BTW let me know when you are on the road so that I can actively avoid you

 

[Sir Peel-a-Lot]

As I said before, bike riding does not translate motorcycle riding it is two entirely different things, motorcycle has a higher micromort compared to cycling, cycling has a micromort of 5 per 100miles versus motorcycle at 15 micomort , versus a car at half a micromort even just walking has 6 micromort, just to put it into perspective. I don't have a problem with the bike, I have a problem with your age as a beginner......it is unfounded either, between ages 25 - 29 account for the most accidents, where as 40's upwards account for the highest fatalities rates.

Given your age and a beginner, the odds are definitely not in your favor.... your avoidance and reaction time has significantly slowed and with no former training or experience it could be much, much worse. Given your age and a beginner with no prior experience, 600cc + is a lot of power, age is a huuuuuuuge ass factor here. Sorry to say you are much more likely to be involved in a accident to someone with prior experience, that is just fact. Take heed to being a significant risk.

BTW let me know when you are on the road so that I can actively avoid you

Wow, what a jaded pessimist you sound like. Mind over matter, I'm young and sprightly. And fyi, the 40-50 age bracket pays significantly less for motorcycle premiums as that age bracket is deemed low risk. Above 50 is when the premium increases exponentially.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Thanks. That's very helpful. Yeah I've factored in helmet, jacket, gloves, boots & pants.

So if I read your reply correctly, on a used bike of R60000 say, worst case scenario, R6000 per year insurance as a ballpark? Or is that ~R6000 the extra you're talking about on top of the standard insurance, whatever that might be?

Nah you got it right the first time.

But the excess structure is what you’ll want to keep your eye on.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Don't forget to check if it impacts your life insurance.

I’ve never seen this unless you are racing.

 

[SauRoNZA]

By translates I meant with regards to having never ridden anything two wheeled. It's far harder to learn to ride a bike if you've never ridden one of any kind. 650cc is not a lot of power if you have a responsible mindset, and choose the correct bike with linear power delivery, rather than an inline 4 engine or something crazy like that.

If you are reasonably taller than average a Honda NC700 will do you just fine and should fit the pocket as well.

 

[Sir Peel-a-Lot]

If you are reasonably taller than average a Honda NC700 will do you just fine and should fit the pocket as well.

I really like the NC700 with its frunk! And not too much power at about 20 BHP less than a V-Strom, year depending. An ~85cm seat height is about my limit. Anything more and I'm on my toes.

 

[SauRoNZA]

I really like the NC700 with its frunk! And not too much power at about 20 BHP less than a V-Strom, year depending. An ~85cm seat height is about my limit. Anything more and I'm on my toes.

Don’t just think about seat height though on a spec sheet and sit them.

How wide the seat is radically changes how tall the bike feels.

Also wide foot pegs can also make kak in your life on seemingly low bikes.

I’m 1.78 with a 32 in seam so technically short legged and as a veteran the NC700 was fine for me but I would imagine it would intimidate new rider with the same dimensions.

 

[Corelli]

Any advice here much appreciated.

I'm in my 40's and looking to do my LONG overdue motorcycle learner's. I don't have a bike yet, but just trying to gather some information on a ballpark figure of what annual insurance would be for a 500/650cc parallel twin ADV motorcycle of somebody my age who has never owned a bike before. I've been a mountain biker all my life, so this somewhat translates as far as learning to ride a motorcycle goes. I'd be getting insurance, initially, with only a learner's licence. Bike would live in an access-controlled complex, but outside.

Just doing an exercise on whether it's worth selling my smaller city car and going the bike route, or would I end up paying more for the bike per year, considering insurance, maintenance, consumables like tyres etc etc. I'm comfortable servicing most stuff on the bike bar the engine. The bike would probably see ~5000kms per year, mostly road, some fire paths or light off-road. My car has seen about the same mileage the last few years.

I know these questions are a bit like "how long is a piece of string", but any feedback welcomed.

TIA

Bikes are great. If you live in Bali, but here the taxis and bakkie drivers, well I wont really ride here. 500CC is a bit big, maybe start smaller and work your way up till you used to get the control of it.
Also not all women like bikes and its certainly not an easy family mover at all. So fetch kids at school can be tricky, and hot smelly leather or well sogging wet in the rain isnt great. and then there is the stuck side of the road part.

So Vespa in Rome or in Bali or Thailand with some hot exotic girl is great. Cool girl rides scooters there. But well thats that.

Insurance would be the same based on how long you had the license, value of it, and since bikes are more risky.

Maybe join a bike club and then see how it goes.