First time motorcycle insurance

[Adenoid Hynkel]

Lots of negativity in this thread. Rather gona keep quiet.

@Ted76 the only advice I'll give is, dress for the slide, not the ride

If you want to do what itchy boots does, stick to Honda

 

[wizardofid]

Lots of negativity in this thread. Rather gona keep quiet.

@Ted76 the only advice I'll give is, dress for the slide, not the ride

If you want to do what itchy boots does, stick to Honda

And ignoring it, helps who exactly ?. Don't be that guy, as fun and awesome as it may be, you have to accept the harsh and stark reality, anything else is going to be the end of you, period. Having the attitude it won't happen to me is exactly the people who it happens to, a single lapse of judgement and it's over. Ignoring the negative aspects is a sure fire way to find your self in a coffin, reality check is never a bad thing. You need to treat a newbie like a 4 year old, if you not going to respect the fact, every ride may be your last, and riding like your life depends on it, which is does, don't get a motorcycle period.

So no, anyone that says otherwise, you can bugger, politely off a cliff...............

 

[notayoba]

Lots of negativity in this thread. Rather gona keep quiet.

@Ted76 the only advice I'll give is, dress for the slide, not the ride

If you want to do what itchy boots does, stick to Honda

It's a strange thread. Most posts are very positive, just a lot of negativity from 2 people that don't ride anymore.

 

[Sir Peel-a-Lot]

Lots of negativity in this thread. Rather gona keep quiet.

@Ted76 the only advice I'll give is, dress for the slide, not the ride

If you want to do what itchy boots does, stick to Honda

Honda all the way.

 

[Sir Peel-a-Lot]

It's a strange thread. Most posts are very positive, just a lot of negativity from 2 people that don't ride anymore.

Funny that.

 

[Adenoid Hynkel]

And ignoring it, helps who exactly ?. Don't be that guy, as fun and awesome as it may be, you have to accept the harsh and stark reality, anything else is going to be the end of you, period. Having the attitude it won't happen to me is exactly the people who it happens to, a single lapse of judgement and it's over. Ignoring the negative aspects is a sure fire way to find your self in a coffin, reality check is never a bad thing. You need to treat a newbie like a 4 year old, if you not going to respect the fact, every ride may be your last, and riding like your life depends on it, which is does, don't get a motorcycle period.

So no, anyone that says otherwise, you can bugger, politely off a cliff...............

You are spot on that riding a motorcycle is dangerous. You also offered some valuable advice, start small, do some advanced courses and ATGATT. The rest you posted here is overly negative and demotivating for a beginner though. OP sounds like he has his head screwed on, like someone who won't control the throttle with his ego, something most young lads learn the hard way when they take up riding. He is a healthy 40 something year old, not 90. He'll be ok.

 

[wizardofid]

It's a strange thread. Most posts are very positive, just a lot of negativity from 2 people that don't ride anymore.

Yeah viewing two people in isolation, and considering that abnormal is a joke.....yes there isn't going to be a lot of us here especially considering this isn't a biking forum, go to any Mybb sized forum exclusive to motorcycles and the picture is entirely different, most common feature all these biking forums have prominently plastered is safety and risk. They don't fk around the bush either, it would be a pleasure seeing you go to a local bike club with that attitude, one of two things will happen, you will get smacked into to next Tuesday, or they will ask you to leave after giving you a PK. Bike clubs I have seen and meetings I have been to, don't fk around, they will kick your ass, if you do something stupid they will be all up in your ass forever, until they are satisfied you aren't a risk to your self or others.

Think Bike

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Total Motorcycle: 57 years of Motorcycle Guides, Reviews & News

430 Million Readers 57 years of Motorbike Guides, Motorcycle Reviews, Rider & Bike News. We Motorcycles. Free Motorcycle site. Veteran Owned!

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You are spot on that riding a motorcycle is dangerous. You also offered some valuable advice, start small, do some advanced courses and ATGATT. The rest you posted here is overly negative and demotivating for a beginner though. OP sounds like he has his head screwed on, like someone who won't control the throttle with his ego, something most young lads learn the hard way when they take up riding. He is a healthy 40 something year old, not 90. He'll be ok.

I guess as an experienced rider you don't always go down this road, as you never need to, as you are surrounded by other experienced riders generally so it is a mostly an unspoken rule, you don't need to tell them twice. As a beginner you have drill that puppy til it can sit, lie down and bark on command, irrespective having the right mindset.

Also I disagree, with regards to the negativity, when the OP mentioned 600CC at 75+ HP isn't a lot power, I had a silent chuckle as I know better. This little thing called power to weight ratio, if you know, you know, I don't have to bother explaining it. I know many a biker even when they have kept it under control, had a holyshyte moment getting on a new bike unfamiliar to them. As mentioned before as a first time rider at 40+ regardless of health, is a significantly higher risk than the average 40+ year old, it is no coincidence starting at this age group upwards, the number of accidents decrease but the number of fatalities increase, disproportionately at that.


I don't quite understand what the issue is really, having negative views a bad thing, I mean you can have all the negativity you want on guns and other random things that can kill people but not a motorcycle. To put it in perspective on average there is 380 000 motorcycle related deaths each year, versus civilian 250 000+ gun related deaths worldwide, we harper on and on and on about gun deaths, gun safety, risks and weapon handling, but spend barely any time on motorcycle deaths and safety, risk and handling in general, you don't find that concerning at all.

Yeah, no, that doesn't sit right with me.....vanity, ego, masculinity or whatever excuse we boys have, doesn't cut it for me, I will much rather be the dick and outcast.............and yet it still doesn't change the fact still the most fun you can have sitting down......


From the link posted above. If the op can read the entire thing, and then the rest of the thread, if notayoba whoever else disagrees, take can take a flying fk leap off the nearest bridge...... You don't have to ride the bike, his life isn't in your hands, if he wipes out, gets maned, killed or loses limbs, you couldn't care less, you just move on.......so no you don't get to call me negative, you have zero concern for his well being, at least I am steering him towards getting proper training, what have you done, other than beatching about negativity.............(referring to notayoba and whoever else agrees with him)

I am not wrong, with regards to questioning whether 600cc+ as a first bike isn't the best idea.....doesn't matter the bike type, if you are looking for a swift kick to your ass, go right ahead, I will be right behind you to tell you, told you so.

Total Motorcycle: 57 years of Motorcycle Guides, Reviews & News

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Decision Justification Arguments

I'll take it easy and grow into the bike.

I'm a careful driver so I'll be a careful rider and not get into trouble.

I drive a fast car so I'll be able to handle a fast bike.

Other people have started on a 600cc sportbike and didn't get hurt. So why can't I?

These arguments are the most common ones put forth and the ones that are hardest to deal with. These are the arguments that start flame wars. Because it is on these arguments that you have to convince someone the idea of what a beginner bike is over their preconceived notions.

The arguments also often surface in what I call the "decision justification arguments". Many new riders have their heart set on a specific bike and often come to BB to ask about it not to get real advice but to get confirmation that their decision is right. In cruisers, standards, scooters and dual-sports, more often than not these "pre-decisions" are generally good ones. In sportbikes, more than 3/4 of the posters are trying to get the community to approve their choice of a 600cc machine as a first ride. Their shock is quite real when they are barraged with answers that don't meet their expectations and that is when a flurry of oft-repeated discussion ensues.

Let's take each argument in turn since these are the ones that turn up with regularity.

I'll take it easy and grow into the bike.

The purpose of a first bike is to allow you to master basic riding skills, build confidence and develop street survival strategies. You don't grow into a bike. You develop your skills on it. As your skills develop, so does your confidence and with it, your willingness to explore what the bike is capable of.

But you are also entering in a contract with the bike. It is two-way. You are going to expect the bike to act on your inputs and the bike in turn is going to respond. The problem is, your skills are still developing but the bike doesn't know that. It does what it is told. You want a partner in a contract to treat you fairly. On a bike, you don't want it fighting you every step of the way. And like most contracts, the problems don't start until there is a breakdown in communication or a misunderstanding.

In sportbikes, the disparity between a new rider's fledgling skills and the responsiveness of the machine are very far apart. That is a wide gulf to bridge when you are still trying to figure out what the best inputs and actions on the bike should be. Ideally, you want your bike to do what you tell it and do it nicely. You never want the bike to argue with you. Modern sportbikes, despite their exquisite handling will often argue violently right at the moment a new rider doesn't need them to.

Remember, riding is a LEARNED skill. It does not come naturally to the majority of us (save those like the Hayden brothers who were raised on dirt bikes from the moment they could walk). It must be practiced and refined. Riding is counter-intuitive to most new riders. It doesn't happen the way you expect. For example, at speeds over 25mph, to get a bike to go right, you actually turn the bars to the left. It's called counter-steering and it eventually comes naturally as breathing once you've been in the saddle for a while. But for new riders, this kind of thing is utterly baffling.

You want your skills to grow in a measurable and predictable fashion. You have enough to be fearful of riding in traffic. The last thing you need is to be fearful of what your bike might do when you aren't ready for it. It's never a good situation.

It is interesting to point out that only one manufacturer, Suzuki, explicitly states in their promotional material that their GSX-R family of sportbikes are intended for experienced riders. This also applies to several of their larger, more powerful machines (such as a GSX-1300R Hayabusa). If Suzuki issues such a warning for its top-flight sport machines, it is reasonable to say that the same warning would apply equally to similar machines from other manufacturers.

It is completely ironic, that the OP is exactly justifying the purchase as mentioned in the article, no coincidences he has the same argument, as mentioned that he has ridden bicycles and that somehow prepared him for motorcycles, TF it hasn't prepared him for anything, but I am not too concerned, he will quickly find out how much he has underestimated things.....sure the article is more about sports bikes, but the same applies to any bike and type, they may be a bit slower to respond to throttle control and take longer to get to a cruising speed, an adventure bike is road legal and they aren't "slow" by any means, an inexperienced rider that can be more than enough.....

Also don't make the mistake that I am negative about biking in general, I am being negative about a first time middle aged rider.....huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge ass difference. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sir Peel-a-Lot]

Yeah viewing two people in isolation, and considering that abnormal is a joke.....yes there isn't going to be a lot of us here especially considering this isn't a biking forum, go to any Mybb sized forum exclusive to motorcycles and the picture is entirely different, most common feature all these biking forums have prominently plastered is safety and risk. They don't fk around the bush either, it would be a pleasure seeing you go to a local bike club with that attitude, one of two things will happen, you will get smacked into to next Tuesday, or they will ask you to leave after giving you a PK. Bike clubs I have seen and meetings I have been to, don't fk around, they will kick your ass, if you do something stupid they will be all up in your ass forever, until they are satisfied you aren't a risk to your self or others.

Think Bike

thinkbike.co.za

Total Motorcycle: 57 years of Motorcycle Guides, Reviews & News

430 Million Readers 57 years of Motorbike Guides, Motorcycle Reviews, Rider & Bike News. We Motorcycles. Free Motorcycle site. Veteran Owned!

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I guess as an experienced rider you don't always go down this road, as you never need to, as you are surrounded by other experienced riders generally so it is a mostly an unspoken rule, you don't need to tell them twice. As a beginner you have drill that puppy til it can sit, lie down and bark on command, irrespective having the right mindset.

Also I disagree, with regards to the negativity, when the OP mentioned 600CC at 75+ HP isn't a lot power, I had a silent chuckle as I know better. This little thing called power to weight ratio, if you know, you know, I don't have to bother explaining it. I know many a biker even when they have kept it under control, had a holyshyte moment getting on a new bike unfamiliar to them. As mentioned before as a first time rider at 40+ regardless of health, is a significantly higher risk than the average 40+ year old, it is no coincidence starting at this age group upwards, the number of accidents decrease but the number of fatalities increase, disproportionately at that.


I don't quite understand what the issue is really, having negative views a bad thing, I mean you can have all the negativity you want on guns and other random things that can kill people but not a motorcycle. To put it in perspective on average there is 380 000 motorcycle related deaths each year, versus civilian 250 000+ gun related deaths worldwide, we harper on and on and on about gun deaths, gun safety, risks and weapon handling, but spend barely any time on motorcycle deaths and safety, risk and handling in general, you don't find that concerning at all.

Yeah, no, that doesn't sit right with me.....vanity, ego, masculinity or whatever excuse we boys have, doesn't cut it for me, I will much rather be the dick and outcast.............and yet it still doesn't change the fact still the most fun you can have sitting down......


From the link posted above. If the op can read the entire thing, and then the rest of the thread, if notayoba whoever else disagrees, take can take a flying fk leap off the nearest bridge...... You don't have to ride the bike, his life isn't in your hands, if he wipes out, gets maned, killed or loses limbs, you couldn't care less, you just move on.......so no you don't get to call me negative, you have zero concern for his well being, at least I am steering him towards getting proper training, what have you done, other than beatching about negativity.............(referring to notayoba and whoever else agrees with him)

I am not wrong, with regards to questioning whether 600cc+ as a first bike isn't the best idea.....doesn't matter the bike type, if you are looking for a swift kick to your ass, go right ahead, I will be right behind you to tell you, told you so.

Total Motorcycle: 57 years of Motorcycle Guides, Reviews & News

430 Million Readers 57 years of Motorbike Guides, Motorcycle Reviews, Rider & Bike News. We Motorcycles. Free Motorcycle site. Veteran Owned!

www.totalmotorcycle.com

It is completely ironic, that the OP is exactly justifying the purchase as mentioned in the article, no coincidences he has the same argument, as mentioned that he has ridden bicycles and that somehow prepared him for motorcycles, TF it hasn't prepared him for anything, but I am not too concerned, he will quickly find out how much he has underestimated things.....sure the article is more about sports bikes, but the same applies to any bike and type, they may be a bit slower to respond to throttle control and take longer to get to a cruising speed, an adventure bike is road legal and they aren't "slow" by any means, an inexperienced rider that can be more than enough.....

Also don't make the mistake that I am negative about biking in general, I am being negative about a first time middle aged rider.....huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge ass difference. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well that's my Sunday night entertainment sorted after the last post, so I'll engage further, 'cause clearly you're up for it. It seems you've only scanned what I wrote and are changing everything I said to suit your one-sided argument. I said a 650cc engine is not that much power compared to a 600cc supersport engine like a Fazer inline-four. BIG difference between the power delivery there, but somehow you think I said I want a 600cc supersport bike when I actually said I would buy anything but.

I couldn't give a rats arse about the engine, for what I wanna do, I'm after gentle power and reliability. Think of a dutiful donkey who's been diligently doing his squats.

 

[wizardofid]

Well that's my Sunday night entertainment sorted after the last post, so I'll engage further, 'cause clearly you're up for it. It seems you've only scanned what I wrote and are changing everything I said to suit your one-sided argument. I said a 650cc engine is not that much power compared to a 600cc supersport engine like a Fazer inline-four. BIG difference between the power delivery there, but somehow you think I said I want a 600cc supersport bike when I actually said I would buy anything but.

I couldn't give a rats arse about the engine, for what I wanna do, I'm after gentle power and reliability. Think of a dutiful donkey who's been diligently doing his squats.

lol, gentle power and reliability ? This will get you, were you need to be.......




if you need a bit more power

 

[Adenoid Hynkel]

It is completely ironic, that the OP is exactly justifying the purchase as mentioned in the article, no coincidences he has the same argument, as mentioned that he has ridden bicycles and that somehow prepared him for motorcycles, TF it hasn't prepared him for anything, but I am not too concerned, he will quickly find out how much he has underestimated things.....

Well for one, cycling in traffic (London) can contribute to your overall road awareness and understanding of traffic dynamics on 2 wheels. Awareness is probably the most important skill for motorcycling. Cycling also teaches you balance which is valuable when transitioning to motorcycling. The rest can be taught. I bet someone who cycled his whole life will feel very comfortable on a light 80/125cc from the get go.

Also don't make the mistake that I am negative about biking in general, I am being negative about a first time middle aged rider.....huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge ass difference. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hmm, so perfectly healthy middle aged men shouldn't start riding? Why?

 

[notayoba]

Yeah viewing two people in isolation, and considering that abnormal is a joke.....yes there isn't going to be a lot of us here especially considering this isn't a biking forum, go to any Mybb sized forum exclusive to motorcycles and the picture is entirely different, most common feature all these biking forums have prominently plastered is safety and risk. They don't fk around the bush either, it would be a pleasure seeing you go to a local bike club with that attitude, one of two things will happen, you will get smacked into to next Tuesday, or they will ask you to leave after giving you a PK. Bike clubs I have seen and meetings I have been to, don't fk around, they will kick your ass, if you do something stupid they will be all up in your ass forever, until they are satisfied you aren't a risk to your self or others.

Think Bike

thinkbike.co.za

Total Motorcycle: 57 years of Motorcycle Guides, Reviews & News

430 Million Readers 57 years of Motorbike Guides, Motorcycle Reviews, Rider & Bike News. We Motorcycles. Free Motorcycle site. Veteran Owned!

www.totalmotorcycle.com

I guess as an experienced rider you don't always go down this road, as you never need to, as you are surrounded by other experienced riders generally so it is a mostly an unspoken rule, you don't need to tell them twice. As a beginner you have drill that puppy til it can sit, lie down and bark on command, irrespective having the right mindset.

Also I disagree, with regards to the negativity, when the OP mentioned 600CC at 75+ HP isn't a lot power, I had a silent chuckle as I know better. This little thing called power to weight ratio, if you know, you know, I don't have to bother explaining it. I know many a biker even when they have kept it under control, had a holyshyte moment getting on a new bike unfamiliar to them. As mentioned before as a first time rider at 40+ regardless of health, is a significantly higher risk than the average 40+ year old, it is no coincidence starting at this age group upwards, the number of accidents decrease but the number of fatalities increase, disproportionately at that.


I don't quite understand what the issue is really, having negative views a bad thing, I mean you can have all the negativity you want on guns and other random things that can kill people but not a motorcycle. To put it in perspective on average there is 380 000 motorcycle related deaths each year, versus civilian 250 000+ gun related deaths worldwide, we harper on and on and on about gun deaths, gun safety, risks and weapon handling, but spend barely any time on motorcycle deaths and safety, risk and handling in general, you don't find that concerning at all.

Yeah, no, that doesn't sit right with me.....vanity, ego, masculinity or whatever excuse we boys have, doesn't cut it for me, I will much rather be the dick and outcast.............and yet it still doesn't change the fact still the most fun you can have sitting down......


From the link posted above. If the op can read the entire thing, and then the rest of the thread, if notayoba whoever else disagrees, take can take a flying fk leap off the nearest bridge...... You don't have to ride the bike, his life isn't in your hands, if he wipes out, gets maned, killed or loses limbs, you couldn't care less, you just move on.......so no you don't get to call me negative, you have zero concern for his well being, at least I am steering him towards getting proper training, what have you done, other than beatching about negativity.............(referring to notayoba and whoever else agrees with him)

I am not wrong, with regards to questioning whether 600cc+ as a first bike isn't the best idea.....doesn't matter the bike type, if you are looking for a swift kick to your ass, go right ahead, I will be right behind you to tell you, told you so.

Total Motorcycle: 57 years of Motorcycle Guides, Reviews & News

430 Million Readers 57 years of Motorbike Guides, Motorcycle Reviews, Rider & Bike News. We Motorcycles. Free Motorcycle site. Veteran Owned!

www.totalmotorcycle.com

It is completely ironic, that the OP is exactly justifying the purchase as mentioned in the article, no coincidences he has the same argument, as mentioned that he has ridden bicycles and that somehow prepared him for motorcycles, TF it hasn't prepared him for anything, but I am not too concerned, he will quickly find out how much he has underestimated things.....sure the article is more about sports bikes, but the same applies to any bike and type, they may be a bit slower to respond to throttle control and take longer to get to a cruising speed, an adventure bike is road legal and they aren't "slow" by any means, an inexperienced rider that can be more than enough.....

Also don't make the mistake that I am negative about biking in general, I am being negative about a first time middle aged rider.....huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge ass difference. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You need a hobby to let out all that frustration, maybe try motorcycling.

 

[Gtx Gaming]

Insurance companies love people going for fast bikes

Imagine being under 25 and trying to get insurance for 650cc+ lol

 

[wizardofid]

FYI I quote where you said at post number 5

First time motorcycle insurance

Any advice here much appreciated. I'm in my 40's and looking to do my LONG overdue motorcycle learner's. I don't have a bike yet, but just trying to gather some information on a ballpark figure of what annual insurance would be for a 500/650cc parallel twin ADV motorcycle of somebody my age who...

mybroadband.co.za

650cc is not a lot of power if you have a responsible mindset, and choose the correct bike with linear power delivery, rather than an inline 4 engine or something crazy like that.

And I said responsible mindset means little compared to experience, experience and skill trumps "mindset" any day of the week. Already said you can be the safest rider on the road, when shyte hits the fan, which it will you aren't going to be prepared and even with linear power delivery, you still have higher than average power to weight ratio than the average sedan.

Your acceleration even on the slowest of slow bikes is going to be faster on pull away than an average sedan with double the horse power, a sedan at 5 times the weight would need triple the horse power just to keep up with you, even a slow 200cc can do 0 to 100km/h in 11 seconds, average sedan double that. Imagine a BMW F650GS, which gets to a 100 in 5.6, 2.8 seconds you will be doing 50, comparatively to a superbike that is "slow", in terms of raw power and torque for a newbie, is fking fast, the average reaction time for a motorcyclist perception-response is 0.71ms to 1.25ms and most can respond with in 2.5 seconds and that is an experienced rider, a newbie it is significantly worse and gets worse with age as well.


Your awareness riding a bicycle doesn't remotely translate to motorcycling, it isn't even the same thing, while they share some riding principles, you aren't riding mostly on the side and mostly out of the traffic flow for one, you are the traffic flow. with it comes an entirely new set of hazards you don't get riding a bicycle, lane changes, highways, intersections, following distances, braking distances, wet conditions, road hazard.

Fall of a bicycle, perhaps a bruise and some road rash, worse case a broken bone or two, you are also moving slow enough that other roads users should be able to react to you, you don't really have the forward momentum you have on a motorcycle, with a motorcycle pending how you fall you either going to hit something or something hits you, you are traveling at the same speed as the bike, that forward momentum has to go some where you either high side, low side, or have a direct impact.

@Adenoid Hynkel not quoting your post as well as what I said above applies to you as well, driving any other vehicle in no way gives you the qualifications to drive a motorcycle, while counter steering is the same for a bicycle and motorcycle speed isn't, generally speaking in most instances counter steering is enough on a bicycle, for a motorcycle it is significantly more involved as it is at significantly higher speed. You can still brake in a corner with a bicycle and it still be forgiving do that with a motorcycle on wet road condition or loose gravel and you will be sliding on your ass to the curb in no time flat.

Bicycling and motorcycling is similar in the obvious ways, and you can draw similarities but "riding" is in no way the same, I mentioned counter steering and mentioned corners, but generally speaking counter steering is about all you do on a motorcycle it isn't the same for bicycles and not even remotely as prominent with motorcycles, sure the counter steering eventually comes second nature to a motorcyclist as much as breathing does, you don't even realize you're doing it. You still need to build up the skills and experience of it. Blind spots is pretty much one sided on a bicycle most of the times, blind spots for a motorcyclists are on both sides and besides that you are going to be in the blindspots of cars most of time whether you like it or not.

Having the "right mindset" means fkall, it gets you nowhere without the experience and skills, if you don't have the control of the motorcycle, whether at 50 or a 100, that "right mindset" is going to help you sweet fkall when you get into trouble.
The article I posted sums it nicely, the motorcycle doesn't know you are inexperienced it is simply going to do what it is told to do.

It was significantly safer on the roads 20 years ago, compared to now, traffic volume was also lower, roads were in better conditions, but in the same breath motorcycles have also become a lot safer with regards to stability control and braking systems ect. Comparing UK driving ability to South Africa abilities, traffic flow and type of vehicles you will encounter isn't just daft it is down right stupid. The UK in general has a significantly better drivers in general, South Africa isn't even remotely close comparatively. You are significantly more at risk here than in the UK.

While early skills development is a better advantage in general and building that muscle memory, I am in no way saying he shouldn't get into motorcycling, contrary I said joining up with a club and going for advance riding course would be in his best interests, I am against the size of the motorcycle at his age as a first time rider, no matter the bike, you can have a battery powered trolley or a rocket propelled boomerang neither one is going to care whether you have the skills or not to be in full control.

His assumption that a slower accelerating linear power driven bike is "fine" is considerably flawed, it is still significantly faster than any average sedan and he will still be out pacing traffic without any problem, even a damn scooter has better acceleration that most cars. He has no skills, no prior experience no matter the power delivery it isn't the best idea ever to start of with a large bike

There are exceptions where a rider will be fine, it doesn't apply to every rider and exception are far and in between, outcomes are more often than not injury or death, With the current state of roads and driving ability of other roads users, it is ill advised to be taking on a large bike even formal training is only going to help him so far, it is no substitute for real world experience, mindset means nothing in this case, his overconfidence is surely going to hit his pride eventually and hopefully nothing worse.


This attitude get whatever bike you want, is irresponsible, and I would tell you to STFU in real life no problem, as I said your aren't there to hold his hand while riding, or give him at advise or take responsibly for his own actions, only can steer him in the right direction, and draw from your own experiences and that of others. However harsh my comments might be and might not be without fault but in no way is it overly cautious or puts him at unnecessarily risk, statically he is a higher risk, whether he wants to be or not, disputing the fact shows ignorance and I rather not deal with people like that, it is neither worth the time nor the effort. I have seen and know enough and drawn from my own experiences that it is a bad idea as a starting point for a new rider no matter the bike age isn't just a number. You are always one judgement call away from landing flat on your ass or worse, never forget that.

 

[wizardofid]

You need a hobby to let out all that frustration, maybe try motorcycling.

Welcome to ignoreville, population you.....

 

[SauRoNZA]

Bikes are great. If you live in Bali, but here the taxis and bakkie drivers, well I wont really ride here. 500CC is a bit big, maybe start smaller and work your way up till you used to get the control of it.
Also not all women like bikes and its certainly not an easy family mover at all. So fetch kids at school can be tricky, and hot smelly leather or well sogging wet in the rain isnt great. and then there is the stuck side of the road part.

So Vespa in Rome or in Bali or Thailand with some hot exotic girl is great. Cool girl rides scooters there. But well thats that.

Insurance would be the same based on how long you had the license, value of it, and since bikes are more risky.

Maybe join a bike club and then see how it goes.

Taxis are your best friend on a bike.

They are actually aware what goes on around them and always make gaps for bikes as they know we don’t impede their progress in any way.

 

[SauRoNZA]

If you can. Get a Buell. But BMW makes great bikes too. Better than their cars.

I like Honda Scooters, but really start smaller and work your way up. I know its maybe not great but a 250cc. Ignore the idiots laughing at you. I have met too many thats ended up in hospital without an arm or leg or both from bike accidents. My brother is a bike mechanic. But you have to pay a lot to see him, and he is fussy with clients.
Then again he can service your bike without a drop of oil spilled on a white tile floor, but thats how he was trained at college. But he does Harley and Buell mainly.

No, you don’t get a Buell because they have zero safety features.

They also only make high powered high torque bike that will destroy many other bikes on a tight and twisty piece of road that underestimated them not knowing what they were.

Also they no longer exist so it’s a terrible choice of motorcycle got a first timer.

BMW yes, every step of the way, there simply aren’t better bikes around.

A 250cc is simply too small if any kind of highway riding is required and actually puts you in more danger. We aren’t in the 2-stroke days any more.

 

[SauRoNZA]

I am a realist, I know better, our roads were in much better condition compared to 20 years ago, when I was still a rider, so were the drivers, traffic volume also increased a lot, and the amount of drivers with lucky packet licenses has increased significantly as well. UK has significantly better drivers compared to South Africa.

The lower insurance for a given age group is based on driving experience, you have no experience, you will be paying more, I don't know why you even make an argument like that, knowing that you are a first time rider, you are automatically a higher risk. Stats that say you are less of a risk doesn't apply to you, you are essentially a baby and need to be treated like one, however unpleasant and condescending it may sound, next to sex, motorcycling is the most enjoyable thing you can do sitting down, it doesn't change the fact that you are at higher risk, you need to accept that, then you can move on and enjoy riding.

And no I am not a jaded nor a pessimist, I completely understand the enjoyment of riding, I would definitely recommend it as a bucket list experience if only just once, as a realist I am aware of the risks.

https://www.msi.org.za/motorcycle-safety-analysis-for-south-africa-2018/

The fact that you keep saying driving instead of riding really does say it all.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Not sure about insurance, but re costs: I would say a bike will end up costing more per year, unless it's a 150cc scooter or something.

Higher Costs:
-Bikes chow tires. I got about 7000km per rear on an NC700 if I remember correctly, and that's riding conservatively. Some claim 15000km, but they must be coasting at a steady 100km/h with no braking or accelerating to achieve that.

I’ve never heard of such low mileage on an NC700. They get well over that.

I get 20,000 I’m on a rear and 30,000 on a Michelin Pilot Road strapped to a 1200 Twin…and it gets hammered.

-Short service intervals

Depends on the bike, but most are at least 10,000km and also quick and cheap to service.

My bike cost R352 a month over the last 8 years and 67,000 km to maintain. Tyres, brakes and services at the dealership.

-Regular expensive service items like chains/sprockets/fork oil.

“ regular “ being every 30,000+ kilometres? And also not expensive at that if you have a chain in the first place. Fork oil costs nothing.

-It's possible to become bike obsessed, and you'll spend all your money

We all need a passion to spend our money on. My Le Creuset collection makes my bike hobby seem reasonable.

Lower Costs:

You save on petrol

I mean it depends. But at least it will never be worse than any car.

-You save tons of time

And this negates all the rest and makes it so worth it. You also get there refresh and ready to go while everyone else is a zombie.
-

You don't have to look for or pay for parking

When you do though it’s a massive pain in the ass.

You will be happier

100%. Even on the worst days of pissing rain and wind and dark when you get home you always feel better for it.

Not so sure about everyone's negativity to start later in life, but what I can say is 100% go for professional lessons. Maybe even some track time. You need to know how to brake, how to counter steer, how to use and shift your weight and how to corner. Otherwise I'll take a 100:1 bet you'll see your arse in the first month.

I always advocate training before even buying to make sure you mentally agree with it.

But you only need to know how to do cadence braking to be safe, unless the bike has ABS.

Counter steering is automatic, and you don’t need to move your ass anywhere to go around corners safely.

Sure learning those things helps down the line, but they ultimately only matter at peak riding and make maybe a 5% difference on the extreme and in reality shouldn’t even be riding like that on the road.

Learning about object fixation and how to counter it is probably the most important lesson to learn.

 

[SauRoNZA]

It's a strange thread. Most posts are very positive, just a lot of negativity from 2 people that don't ride anymore.

Always like that.

Just like ex smokers.

And almost definitely they blame their last off that broke them mentally on everything else but their own personal failures as to why it happened.

In the case of the wizard negativity is his entire world view. I have never witnessed a single positive statement come out of his keyboard.

 

[Sir Peel-a-Lot]

Always like that.

Just like ex smokers.

And almost definitely they blame their last off that broke them mentally on everything else but their own personal failures as to why it happened.

In the case of the wizard negativity is his entire world view. I have never witnessed a single positive statement come out of his keyboard.

Thanks for all your info, much appreciated for the on-topic posts.

Wizard’s posts are hilarious, and confusingly contradictory.