Fog Lamps.....

[LancelotSA]

With a quick scan through, the entire premise of the argument seems to be invalidated by the fact that the beams of fog lights and normal headlights would not intersect. Fogs start lower and are aimed closer to the front of the car than headlights. Sorry... pull the other one.

Enigma, I should have realised from other threads that it is really just not worth arguing with you. You always just write off what is being said and claim a victory. First off, I will not even bother asking how you manage to get your lights to shine exactly where you want with no peripheral light being emitted as you will come up with some feeble reason or merely deflect the questioning. However, if you had bothered reading further you would have read how it is only really idiots who assume that using fog lights improves their ability to see things while driving. Of course I did not need that article to prove that to me, this thread was doing a good enough job.

Of course I could also ask you why legislation around the world deems the use of fog lights in clear conditions to be illegal, especially considering they cause no harm, but I don't doubt you'll start waffling on about Zimbabwe and cellphones.

 

[JK8]

What really bugs me is idiots with lights not adjusted properly, especially bakkies and 4x4's.

In our area the mapllotters do this so they can see further on the dirt roads. As they come past me I just leave my floods on now days, half they time they put their own floods on and the light passes above my car.

Agreed, headlights in your face is worst than fogs pointing at the ground...

 

[LancelotSA]

In our area the mapllotters do this so they can see further on the dirt roads. As they come past me I just leave my floods on now days, half they time they put their own floods on and the light passes above my car.

As dangerous as it may be, I do exactly the same to those with fog lights on. Secretly I am probably hoping they lose control, swerve off the road and we have one less idiot in the world. Rather that than some innocent person losing control as a result of being blinded by said idiot.

 

[Nod]

The police commissioner said drive with your lights on!!
did you notice the E class Mercs always have front fogs on? All you have to do is start the car and the lights go on...

I thought those were "driving/running lights", and are seperate from fog lights?

 

[HavocXphere]

can someone please enlighten me as to why people drive with their car fog lights on (on clear days and/or clear nights)

I reckon most people just don't realize their fog lights are on.

Front fog lights don't matter imo...not that different from running lights. Rear fog lights on the other hand are just plain dangerous. Esp some of the Merc models where the brake lights are hardly noticable if the fog lights are on.

rear fog lights on on anything but fog and torrential rain, should be shot on sight.

Preferably twice.

 

[rorz0r]

I drive around with my front fogs on quite a bit. Only reason being is that I drive with the headlights on usually and my fogs come on when I turn the headlights on. Don't know why but I got the car second. I thought maybe they did a mod where you short the fuses in the fuse box then you can turn on your fogs without your headlights and look cool but I checked the fusebox and they are all fine, which means it's been "fixed" somewhere else.

 

[HapticSimian]

Enigma, I should have realised from other threads that it is really just not worth arguing with you. You always just write off what is being said and claim a victory. First off, I will not even bother asking how you manage to get your lights to shine exactly where you want with no peripheral light being emitted as you will come up with some feeble reason or merely deflect the questioning. However, if you had bothered reading further you would have read how it is only really idiots who assume that using fog lights improves their ability to see things while driving. Of course I did not need that article to prove that to me, this thread was doing a good enough job.

Of course I could also ask you why legislation around the world deems the use of fog lights in clear conditions to be illegal, especially considering they cause no harm, but I don't doubt you'll start waffling on about Zimbabwe and cellphones.

Actually I did know beforehand that you would simply rant and rave & hop up and down at the slightest sign that someone does not share your opinion on a matter. It's myBB's daily repeat, so hardly a surprise.

I read that bit about driving at higher speeds, but felt it unnecessary to expend energy on addressing it, as it seems fairly logical that the biggest benefit of fog lights (at the front, at night) would be at lower speeds in suburban and otherwise built-up areas.

Seeing that you want to get all legal over the matter, it is equally interesting to see that opinion seems to be that a recent EC directive concerning daytime running lights would negate much of the legal brouhaha over using front fog lights in anything but foggy conditions. I'm still searching around a bit to see if this is in fact so, but interesting none the less.

You keep doing what you do, making me thankful that I'm not a whining sod who moans at any opportunity just for the sake of it, and I'll keep applying a modicum of logic and reason to how I use my car's lights, mmmmkay?

 

[Hogrod]

I've got no problem with normal front fog lights, either at dawn/dusk or at night - they do give you better lighting to the side and they're a non-issue for other road users. However, people driving with the rear fog lights on on anything but fog and torrential rain, should be shot on sight.

From a subjective observation based purely on the appearance of these people, I would hazard that switches confuse them.

Lol to "better lighting to the side" and "non-issue for other road users"

Firstly, fog lights at night are not useful in clear conditions, you think that it gives better lighting to the side, but all they do is create more ambient light and reduce your long distance night vision. Also by the time you see something at the side illumintated by your front fog lights, it's too bloody late to do anything about it if you're travelling at speed. I'd only condone use at low speed while looking for pot holes or the curb.

Front fog lights are a huge issue at night particularly in wet condtions, fog lighting will reflect off a wet road surface and blind the approaching vehicle. Try it. The reason for a fog light is fog, not rain, not day, not night, but FOG. Because beleive me when you can't see anything, fog lights are the only thing that will illumate the road in front of you without creating a white wall of cloud you cant see past, which happens if you use full beams in fog.

 

[rvonh]

Fog lamps as fitted on the modern car are cosmetic. To be of any value, they should be yellow and should be used with out any head lamps.

Proof: The next time that you drive in mist, switch on your park lights and fog lamps then check the visibility. Now switch off your fogs lamps and have your head lamps on dim and check the visibility. Should you have better visibility with fog lamps, may I suggest that you add more water! This experiment has been done countless times and clear fogs don't provide any benefit.

Modern day SUVs with high rise bodies have their fog lamps at the same height as light passenger vehicles and DO blind oncoming traffic.

 

[JK8]

I thought those were "driving/running lights", and are seperate from fog lights?

They called daytime running lights, exactly the same as fogs, they even called fogs in the manual, we even had a look at the lights on and then putting the fogs on manually, no difference in brightness.
Btw the E class is the only car like and some of the new spec C Class mercs.

I even saw a new Funny looking Porche SUV, not the Cayenne, it had these LED fogs... it also had diesel written in cursive on the side...

 

[HapticSimian]

Fog lamps as fitted on the modern car are cosmetic. To be of any value, they should be yellow and should be used with out any head lamps.

Proof: The next time that you drive in mist, switch on your park lights and fog lamps then check the visibility. Now switch off your fogs lamps and have your head lamps on dim and check the visibility. Should you have better visibility with fog lamps, may I suggest that you add more water! This experiment has been done countless times and clear fogs don't provide any benefit.

Modern day SUVs with high rise bodies have their fog lamps at the same height as light passenger vehicles and DO blind oncoming traffic.

Yellow vs white has nothing to do with it. I'll agree on the SUVs though, as I alluded to earlier. Although normal headlights and fogs will still be aimed at very different distances.

 

[LancelotSA]

I read that bit about driving at higher speeds, but felt it unnecessary to expend energy on addressing it, as it seems fairly logical that the biggest benefit of fog lights (at the front, at night) would be at lower speeds in suburban and otherwise built-up areas.

It actually referred to long distance vision rather than high speeds but I am over spoon feeding you. There are studies done on these things but I fully understand that they are of little interest to you as you are THE world authority on the matter. For others who may be interested though :

Folks and Kreysar (2000) extended the work of Koth et al., applying the same computer
model to more recent lamp designs, and also evaluating the visibility produced by combinations
of fog and low-beam lamps, as well as by individual lamp types. They used data for two fog
lamps, one to represent typical performance of lamps that met the then-current SAE fog lamp
standard, and one to represent typical performance of lamps that would meet a proposed new fog
lamp standard. The main variable that they used to assess lamp performance was an index of
target contrast, for which higher values represent better visibility. Some of their results, for
medium density fog, are shown in Figure 1. (Results for lighter and heavier fog were similar.)
Comparisons of fog lamps used alone (the dashed lines) to low-beam lamps used alone
(the filled circles) indicated that the fog lamps provided greater visibility than the low-beam
lamps at very short range (10 m), but that at longer distances (20 and 40 m) the low-beam lamps
provided greater visibility. The comparisons of low beams used alone to low beams used with
fog lamps (the solid lines with open symbols) yielded a pattern that was very similar, with the
added fog lamps increasing the visibility provided by the low beams at short range, but reducing
visibility at longer distances. Although the performance of the proposed new fog lamp was
somewhat better than the current fog lamp at most distances, the results for the current and new
fog lamps relative to the low beam were very similar. Except for a slight reversal at 20 m for the
new fog lamp when used with the low beam, the low beam alone provided better target contrast
for all conditions beyond 10 m.

The full study can be read here : http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/handle/2027.42/49453

 

[LancelotSA]

Is the use of fog lights actually dangerous? It appears so. It provides a false sense of security... but of course the idiots will just keep doing it!

It has been suggested that even in typical night driving situations guidance vision is often
too good, relative to drivers’ abilities to detect pedestrians and other objects on the road, leading
drivers to feel overconfident and therefore overdrive the visibility provided by their headlamps
(Leibowitz & Owens, 1977). Leibowitz and Owens have proposed that it is important to
distinguish between two visual systems that are both important in night driving: the focal and
ambient systems. One role of the focal system in driving is to detect potential obstacles on the
road, such as pedestrians or other vehicles. It is therefore critical for avoiding collisions. The
main role of the ambient system is spatial orientation, including lane guidance. Citing various
sources of data, Leibowitz and Owens propose that the two systems differ markedly in their
sensitivity to low levels of light: the performance of the focal system degrades significantly
within the range of light levels normally encountered in night driving, whereas the ambient
system is relatively robust, maintaining a high level of performance even at the lowest levels of
light normally encountered in night driving. As a result, drivers at night are often in situations in
which their ability to maintain lane position is good but their ability to detect obstacles is
selectively (and unexpectedly) degraded:

Since the major tasks of driving [dynamic spatial orientation, including lane
keeping] are relatively unimpaired by reduced illumination, the driver does not
anticipate and is not prepared to deal with stimuli for which the focal system
suffers a selective deficit. In effect, the driver is unjustifiably reassured by the
high performance level of the dynamic spatial orientation system and is unaware
of a loss in focal visual abilities. Since the visual deficit is only partial and of
consequence only for low-probability stimuli [such as obstacles in the road], the
driver is unaware of the loss of function and does not take the necessary
precautions.

 

[HapticSimian]

It actually referred to long distance vision rather than high speeds but I am over spoon feeding you. There are studies done on these things but I fully understand that they are of little interest to you as you are THE world authority on the matter. For others who may be interested though :

The full study can be read here : http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/handle/2027.42/49453

And I suppose the correlation between speed and distance went straight over your head? The total lack of any tangible benefit must be why manufacturers are spending money on features such as this:

Also rare for a car of this size are the optional adaptive front fog lights which switch on automatically, left or right, to illuminate the apexes of bends when negotiating low speed corners. This feature is activated under 40km/h (28mph).

Find something more pertinent to moan over, Lance. Seriously.

 

[The_Unbeliever]

I so wish for an automated potshot system which will target and destroy rear fog lights.

These irritate me beyond belief.

My car's also got fog lights, but these are off. Don't see why I have to keep them on the whole time.

 

[rvonh]

Yellow vs white has nothing to do with it.

Ehm, if this your opinion I'm not going to waste anymore time. Go google light refraction.

 

[LancelotSA]

Ehm, if this your opinion I'm not going to waste anymore time. Go google light refraction.

He has quite a few opinions that are rather inaccurate.

 

[HapticSimian]

Is the use of fog lights actually dangerous? It appears so. It provides a false sense of security... but of course the idiots will just keep doing it!

Congrats on digging up an antiquated paper that has jack to do with the argument.

the performance of the focal system degrades significantly
within the range of light levels normally encountered in night driving

The only conclusion one can draw form that is that there's merit to xenon lights which emit light much more akin to daylight in both colour and intensity.

 

[LancelotSA]

Congrats on digging up an antiquated paper that has jack to do with the argument.

...and true to form, there he goes again...

Enigma, I should have realised from other threads that it is really just not worth arguing with you. You always just write off what is being said and claim a victory.

 

[HapticSimian]

Ehm, if this your opinion I'm not going to waste anymore time. Go google light refraction.

Front fog lamps provide a wide, bar-shaped beam of light with a sharp cutoff at the top, and are generally aimed and mounted low.[10][11][12] They may be either white or selective yellow.

...

The respective purposes of front fog lamps and driving lamps are often confused, due in part to the misconception that fog lamps are necessarily selective yellow, while any auxiliary lamp that makes white light is a driving lamp.

wikiwhack

I don't need to google it, thanks. There would be benefits to yellow lenses, as it would cut down on blue wavelengths, but colour does not automatically identify a light as one or the other. Driving lights, if memory serves, is an outmoded term that referred to high-powered beams in the days when actually encountering another car at night was the exception rather than the rule.