Forum Etiquette

I find ic's attempts to moderate (see his announcement) in the iBurst forum to be a bit too controlling. (Which I believe results from this thread, so if you say I'm off topic, go screw yourself)

The idea of having a forum is to post with your opinion. If the topic on hand sparks an opinion that might be off topic, you have that right to post it and not have it deleted because the thread creator asked for moderators to delete all off topic posts. There is a "Search" function on these forums for a reason if you feel the need to sift through all the bones to get to the "meat" (as ic put it)

This idea will then create a society of sheep rather than free thinkers. rpm might post about sheep in nigeria being abused, and the discussion would then go to sheep in american and/or new zealand also being abused. Those subsequent posts made will then start focussing on abused sheep in other parts of the world (and perhaps with ideas on how to stop them, or why you feel abusing sheep is wrong or in fact, right) which would lead to a topic of abused sheep in general and/or maybe even a support group for sheep that has been abused or even tips on how to go about abusing sheep....

Yet, if ic goes through with the idea of deleting off topic posts, you will find 3 posts about abused sheep in nigeria, no one (not me) has an opinion on it (or an opinion that will be deleted) and the thread would subsequently die.

Continue doing this and you will have a dead forum, where people would have no reason to go to because it is boring and the chances of your opinion being seen as off topic and deleted, stand a high chance of being moderated to death.

I agree that personal attacks on people (although it's fun) will ultimately get out of hand, that is the sole reason why we have moderators. Create a "flame" section and move the entire thread to that part of the forums if need be, but don't go deleting comments/opinions/arguements! Have any of you ever been part of a think-tank? That is exactly what they do all day long, is discuss things which will branch into other things and eventually lead to an idea!

You will notice (as I have) that most of these "personal attacks" would come from the same idiot who posted a personal attack. If you can't take it, why dish it out!

Rather than moderating whole forums with "on topic only" threads. Ban the f@ck-head that's causing the problem, delete HIS posts.

Newton : For every action there is an equal but opposite reaction.

That is what is happening here. Idiot comes online, reads the VALID and FACTUAL truth about a service he likes using (and see what negative points there is about a certain service... which is this site's duty to report on and inform the community) and starts blabbing on how everyone else is using (for instance) p2p for only illegal software sharing, calling them names and insulting them....

Then gets insulted back (usually with a handful of facts as to why we say these things and how the negative points of company A's service can impact him) and the jibberish spewed back and forth becomes then, a personal attack on each other.

Narrow minded assh0les like that, with a post count of under 10, trying to stir **** in a respectable forum should be banned.

Again, if you look at Newton's law (I think it's his law, I might be wrong <-- see I admit that I could be wrong unlike other people!)

If you take the "equal and opposite reaction" out of the law, you will find a bunch of mindless idiots wondering around, still believing that Telkom still has callmore time during the day on a public holiday (which changed a long long time ago for the uninformed!)

I will agree that I'm not the person to speak about staying on topic ALL the time, but I find my contribution to this forum valueble enough to be respected.

Nuff said, If I find any of my comments moderated and/or changed by me not staying "on topic" for whatever reason, I will leave this forum and tell everyone whom I ever told about this place to rather go b1tch or ask questions elsewhere, because it won't be worth it after all.
 
Have a joint, my mates swear by it.. if they were any more laid back they'd fall over.. ;)
 
Editing posts because they are off topic is about as clever as port shaping. I am sure that their are inumerable threads in the archives of this site who end up discussing something very valid despite it having nothing to do with the "Topic". If its rude or insulting the mods should edit / delete AND post a simple one line explaining their reason. "Post deleted for (insert reason here). Their is just too much modding going on.
 
Daveogg,

That is always a concern. We don't want to moderate this site to such a degree where ideas cannot grow. I know from personal experience that a thread can evolve into something bigger than the original reason for starting it.

My personal opinion of what is to be considered off-topic is mostly related to personal attacks and rants that don't make constructive contributions to the thread. This is a rather technical forum in its nature and the banter along the side makes the forum fun too. Another issue is that of politics. Telecoms in South Africa and the way it is regulated is inherently a political issue, but some trolls have made it their business to use the forum to press issues that are nothing but hate speech. It is left to the mods to decide upon this and take action. This action will mostly be a simple deletion of the post or a warning.

I think everybody will agree that mods are not here to play roles of divinity but moderate. A forum with no moderation is doomed to be cluttered to death.

Regards,
Antowan
 
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Can you please refrain from launching any personal attacks on any member or making any derogatory statements!
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Pity this does not refer to Private Messages as well as this is probably one of the main reasons I now make very limited posts and watch my p's and q's very carefully.
 
ProAsm,

That is not good news. Refer such attacks to the mods please. We need to know about these things. The PM realm is very private and we cannot peer in there, but if members are being stigmatized to the degree where they don’t want to post anymore we need to know about this. If there is a habitual offender at work then steps need to be taken. This is a forum where the spirit of the Internet is nurtured to grow.

Please ProAsm, make work of this issue.

Regards,
Antowan
 
Hi ProASM

I would like to echo what Antowan has said. If you or any other member receives any abuse please let us know. We will handle the issue as confidential and will ensure that the problem is addressed. I am certain that nearly all our members are socially well adapted and are here to share knowledge and discuss broadband or other issues, but I guess there will always be a few that abuse the system.

Regards,

RPM
 
rpm said:
Hi ProASM

I would like to echo what Antowan has said. If you or any other member receives any abuse please let us know. We will handle the issue as confidential and will ensure that the problem is addressed. I am certain that nearly all our members are socially well adapted and are here to share knowledge and discuss broadband or other issues, but I guess there will always be a few that abuse the system.

Regards,

RPM
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Thats very true, you cant avoid a few black sheeps to use this forum with abusive and insulting language. I think the majority (98%) of our users here
are sozially so well adapted; they know how to behave themselves
 
ProAsm said:
Pity this does not refer to Private Messages as well as this is probably one of the main reasons I now make very limited posts and watch my p's and q's very carefully.
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I wish I got pm's :(
 
they know how to behave themselves
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no one behaves here ! :D

Actually, I saw a really funny thing (well I thought it was funny) on the way to a client today - down Republic road toward William Nichol there's a bunch of Remax posters with some ugly bloke on them, with the caption "no one works for Remax" - I'll try and take a photo sometime just for our resident pr0n fan and purveyor of foul language ! :D
 
noone, you wrote an infinite loop! You say you wish you got pm's (almost wrote pms) but that would prove that noone does not get pm's, which means that everybody gets pm's. Brain starting to run hot... WAdduP!?!?

Urr, is derailing threads bad forum etiquette? DOH! But I didnt start it!
 
pms....

I would love to send noone a pm heheh ...even if just to say how much i enjoyed that post. sadly my pm function appears to have been disabled. doh....

WretchedToad :D
 
PM's should work for all. I don't know of any disabled PM's. Perhaps your PM inbox is full?
 
Mad...

tis sparrows and ive just found Mads reply to my pm .... heheh... twas the window saying WretchedToad you do not have permission to access this page that threw me ...
thanks Mad that is a great relief...

Hope you are all having a great Easter weekend

WretchedToad :o
 
re moderating - what about allowing Thread Starters themselves at Thread Start, to ask Mods to edit out off-topic comments?

(surely this is something that logically, only people who enjoy 'being offtopic' as a norm would argue against?)

Its not undemocratic to have this choice available to those who want it. Its also not anything like 'port shaping' or 'changing the nature of the forum' to allow some pruning of offtopic rubbish in threads - as decided by the starter of the Thread themselves.

Leave it up to the forumites when they start their own threads, as to whether or not that thread is moderated for offtopic rubbish to be removed.

It wont change the nature of the forum at all - but it does allow those forumites who want to keep 'their' threads clearly On Topic, the freedom to do so.

That's allowing everyone an equal freedom to start with - whereas NOT providing that - means that some forumites, in essence, are just arguing for the ability to dirty up and interject their own idle offtopic thoughts where ever they want.

That's the logic of a Mob, not a self-disciplined bunch of forumites.

And Mods shouldn't misunderstand the option being given to them by the Thread Starters - its not a slippery slope to fascist forum control - it means they are empowering the individual forumites THEMSELVES to specify whether or not they want others idle stupid comments, jokes or offtopic material in their own Threads or not.

Its no infringement on anyones rights in any way - except perhaps the ones who are probably guilty of doing this, and/or who enjoy others doing this..

It seems quite user friendly, democratic and logical to have this option open to those thread-starters who want it.

Those who dont want it, dont use the option. Thats all..

Also - for new users to this forum - there is a vast amount of totally offtopic idle banter and back and forth chirping in otherwise important threads, and why should the new arrivals have to wade through weeks and months of forumites offtopic posts in order to get the exact information they need on specific topics?

Leaving it up to the Thread Starters themselves is totally fair, reasonable and logical -as the thread starters themselves are the ones who get to decide this. No one else HAS the right.

Now that's REAL freedom, and a working approach that's mature, mindful of the overall Forum, and also allowing the individuals who start Threads, the freedom to exercise their personal choice in how they want their started Thread to evolve.
 
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LG, I agree with you for the most part. All of your points are valid, but the normal development of a thread is something that needs to be explained. A thread has a lifecycle of three stages.

Stage 1: Birth and establishment of the topic
Stage 2: Exchanges on the topic and possible solutions
Stage 3: Death of the thread where all possible angles of the topic have been explored and only banter related to the edges of the topic or totally off-topic banter continue.

IMO the only content that need to be pruned from a thread are those posts that either aim to derail the topic with incitement as well as posts that are preventing stage 2 from happening. Any person searching the forum for information need to understand that most of the juicy bits of information are at the beginning of the thread. No use in reading from the end of the thread backward because you are virtually guaranteed that after about 50 or so posts the thread is moving toward or is at stage 3. This is not true for all threads but is just an example.

It is a fact that there are people on this forum (be they limited in numbers) who’s sole aim is to derail threads and cause havoc in the forum. These people have varying agendas and it is the work of every forumite to make up their own minds as to which posts are helpful and which are not. As moderators, we read the forums on a daily basis. We get to know people and we know who the so called trolls are. I find that even trolls can sometimes say something interesting and thus I personally levitate toward warnings rather than outright deletions of posts. Make no mistake, if I find something really troubling I will delete it (as would every other mod on this forum), but a minor off-topic post is not something I would delete just because I can. We have to remember that we are all just human and people sometimes say silly things. I will be the first person to admit to that. ;)

The other issue is that moderation is a difficult job. You can think for yourself how many posts there are on this forum and how that translates into the amount of words that need to be read. This is why there is a feature for “reporting bad posts” on this forum. I personally feel that too much moderation is not a good thing. I look out for the following when browsing the forum: hate speech, personal attacks and trolling. When one views a particular troll’s posts in succession you can see how quickly he or she moves though the threads. The posts of a troll are usually loaded with words aimed at incitement. You can spot them a mile away. They get trailed and if they take a wrong turn their posts are handled by mods.

Regards,
Antowan



LoneGunman said:
re moderating - what about allowing Thread Starters themselves at Thread Start, to ask Mods to edit out off-topic comments?
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If you prune out too much, you'll kill the forum !

It's as simple as that.

ALL threads eventually sway off topic - look at this one for instance. I found parts of it amusing and I like to be amused.

Sure, if it's a deliberate attempt at trolling, moderators should give an initial friendly warning. Edit out offensive parts of a post - BUT DON'T REMOVE IT - and place your warning in there.

That is standard practice in all decently moderated forums. If you remove the post, as opposed to editing it, it sends out the wrong message.

Also - for new users to this forum - there is a vast amount of totally offtopic idle banter and back and forth chirping in otherwise important threads, and why should the new arrivals have to wade through weeks and months of forumites offtopic posts in order to get the exact information they need on specific topics?
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The search function. Do you really think newcomers are going to wade through months of legitimate posts too ? The first thing I do when seeking help in a forum is to SEARCH.

This is a DISCUSSION FORUM - not a freakin' manual - discussions do go off topic, people do get rude in discussions - moderate that, but don't go overboard.

Also, let the members self moderate as well, if someone says "Look, abc, your reply is off topic, can you please post something constructive or don't post" - if that person isn't willing to play ball, then get a moderator involved.

I've been a mod on quite a few forums in the past and I've noticed some mods get huge egos, it's not pleasant.

A moderators duty is to volunteer to keep the peace, not to control by removing anything they deem "off topic"

I come here for three reasons :-

To get or give info
To chat
To have a good laugh

If you take away those last two, I won't visit here anymore.
 
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