GATTACA.ZA - New DNA Bill

[Fingolfin]

Will give her a sample of my DNA

Everyone has their price...

 

[b@nD]

UNCONSITUTIONAL !

'Pandor has alluded to additional information that will be added to the ID smart card, but has declined to comment on the specifics of this information:
"Unfortunately, the information cannot be disclosed, except that it will contain the same information as the green ID book."'

SO
NOW
We have to believe some ANC lackey (get lost)
The WHOLE damn thing is already unconstitutional
Infringes on MY right to privacy
I have NO idea what the State AS WELL AS OTHER 3rd party entities will be storing on the card as I will not have ( will NOT be given ) access to its internal workings.

FNCK them ........

I also cannot see anyone coming up with the millions in legal fees to fight this.

 

[b@nD]

Googled ( as an adjective )

/googles
Will give her a sample of my DNA

One sucker that believes everything he sees on the Internet Down
How many more to go .........

WHEN was that photo taken ?

Rather go watch Wolverine and the Viper Lady -- THAT at least might be entertainment

 

[Fingolfin]

SO
...Infringes on MY right to privacy...
I have NO idea what the State AS WELL AS OTHER 3rd party entities will be storing on the card as I will not have ( will NOT be given ) access to its internal workings.

Well, simply having biometric info (let's say only fingerprints so far, which they have already) on the chip does not immediately and directly infringe upon ones' privacy (if we indeed have such a thing - apparently it's a construct gifted to us by the UN, revokable at will...), but it does open the door to increased identity theft and other issues (via the centralized warehousing of this data in that mythical place, the "secure central database"), which would be further exacerbated by the creeping addition of biometric markers as time goes on.

The fact that a member of the public is not allowed to know what exactly is stored on his own personal identity-proxy IS a big problem here (so far, if indeed it is the case).

That we have to have an identity-proxy at all is unfortunate. I am I.

 

[Garson007]

This one is either a sok-pup
or
A member of the elite

Yeah, no. I just don't wear a tinfoil hat.

Well, you must feel confidant then of your ability to pay for the various analysis and treatments that might come your way

So you're saying hospitals shouldn't exist? I mean they cost more than self-help and indeed they provide me with tests, drugs, etcetera so that I can be more healthy. I'll just sit this cancer out.

insurance premium adjustments that come with your insurance company knowing more about your health than you might like.

Let's ignore that the legal system will catch-up to technological advancement and has in times pre-empted it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_Information_Nondiscrimination_Act

Life insurance companies have adjusted premiums to your individual profile a long long time ago. This isn't a new thing. If you have HIV, you'll pay through your arse. If you have a heart condition, you'll pay through your arse. Don't make it out as if this is some new thing.

Count your blessings. Others less fortunate may find themselves second-class citizens by social and digital decree, as happens in the namesake movie of this thread.

You mean the lower class doesn't already exist? You mean people are not already discriminated against for a variety of things? You mean that the poverty class world wide has not been shrinking?

Gattaca is easily in my top 10 films ever made. That doesn't mean it's not bull.

Consider also that companies implicated in the current PRISM scandal (http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/536319-The-NSA-Internet-Surveillance-Scandal) are making aggressive technological pushes into the medical realm:

I don't give a ****. PRISM is probably the media frenzy that's been the most overly reliant on hyperbole we've had for a decade. Well, since swine and avian flu.

 

[Fingolfin]

So you're saying hospitals shouldn't exist?

It would be stretching it to argue that was what I was saying. I've benefitted from hospitals. I was born in one, and have had multiple surgeries that, if not undergone, would have vastly reduced my abilities and possibilities.

Nonetheless, a hospital is one thing - a centralized DNA database built by public/private partnership, designed for EASE OF ACCESS in order to achieved INCREASED INTEGRATION is another.

Let's ignore that the legal system will catch-up to technological advancement and has in times pre-empted it.

Let's not. While the law lags, the number of innocents drawn into the system increases:

"A total number of 2 289 children have been certified."
Certify your children: http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-cour...kids-1.1377992

Even if the law is up to date, the law gets broken, databases get breached, important information lands up in the hands of Ne'er-do-wells.
Once something gets into the database, it doesn't get removed (and often ends up copied into other databases)
Some of the articles in earlier links discuss the potential for abuse.

Life insurance companies have adjusted premiums to your individual profile a long long time ago. This isn't a new thing. If you have HIV, you'll pay through your arse. If you have a heart condition, you'll pay through your arse. Don't make it out as if this is some new thing.

Absolutely, adjust they do and adjust they will, but should we be handing over to the adjustors our DNA - the source code of our bodies? Big, trustworthy Microsoft refuses to hand over the source code to MS Windows - their primary asset. Why should we hand over ours to a public/private partnership that will undoubtedly include them (and their contracted IT guys? http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1fzrp5/edward_snowden_the_whistleblower_behind/)

You mean the lower class doesn't already exist? You mean people are not already discriminated against for a variety of things?

If you truly empathize with the lower class, then you would not support the warehousing of their deepest secrets.

Gattaca is easily in my top 10 films ever made. That doesn't mean it's not bull.

Art imitates Life imitates Art. If even half of GATTACA comes to fruition, humanity is lost.

I don't give a ****. PRISM is probably the media frenzy that's been the most overly reliant on hyperbole we've had for a decade. Well, since swine and avian flu.

The media and the all-consuming, all-forgetting captive audience will do what they do and say what they say, but that doesn't mean that this is not an important datum in the history of man, worthy of consideration. If this particular repetition of history passes by, forgotten like all the others, then I'm afraid the ever-present slippery slope will be shortly appear as a cliff-edge. [/dramatics]

 

[Fingolfin]

"Medical device makers should take new steps to protect their products from malware and cyberattacks or face the possibility that U.S. Food and Drug Administration won't approve their devices for use"

http://it.slashdot.org/story/13/06/...edical-devicemakers-to-focus-on-cybersecurity

"SHOULD": http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt

"Security concerns have risen over the past decade as more and more medical devices incorporate configurable computer systems that are susceptible to tampering by malicious hackers. The amount of damage that can be done is magnified because many pacemakers, insulin pumps, and other devices implanted in or attached to a patient's body can be remotely controlled using radio signals. "

http://arstechnica.com/security/201...evices-vulnerable-to-serious-hacks-feds-warn/

 

[Flanders]

So would this be like RICA for the gene-pant? In other words, useless.

 

[noxibox]

The bigger your DNA database the more false positives you'll get.

 

[Fingolfin]

So would this be like RICA for the gene-pant? In other words, useless.

Like RICA, apparently useless (in terms of stacking the odds in favour of general public security*), and perhaps even dangerous.

(*) http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/blind-terror-dumb-state
"Mueller estimated that the number of Americans killed by international terrorism (including 9/11) is about the same as the number killed over the same period by lightning, or by accidental deer, or by severe allergic reaction to peanuts."

 

[Nicodeamus]

It's not about having anything to hide. My DNA is certainly not something I'd need to hide. My DNA being sequenced and stored in a database will allow me to get assigned drugs/exercise routines/diagnostics/psychotherapy/rehabilitation/career advice/etcetera that are designed for my biological system. My DNA being stored in the database with million others can increase research in behaviour/biology/prognosis/nurture vs. nature/etcetera.

Sounds like someone who wants to justify eugenics.

Government has no right to invade our own privacy, would you have an issue with government taping into your phone and reading your messages? The possibilities are endless.

 

[Fingolfin]

Sounds like someone who wants to justify eugenics.

Well, that might be taking it a bit far, but spot on otherwise.

...And let's remember, that if we let all these damaging bills pass, and don't question existing problematic laws (fresh and shiny and new as they may be) the government (along with accomplice corporations and rogue individuals) DO have a right to invade our privacy.

 

[Nicodeamus]

Well, that might be taking it a bit far, but spot on otherwise.

...And let's remember, that if we let all these damaging bills pass, and don't question existing problematic laws (fresh and shiny and new as they may be) the gov DOES have a right to invade our privacy.

eugenics for example is a wonderful idea, the outcome is spectacular, however the means is morally barbaric. The exact same can be said about this nonsense.

 

[Fingolfin]

eugenics for example is a wonderful idea, the outcome is spectacular, however the means is morally barbaric. The exact same can be said about this nonsense.

Hear, hear.

End and Means, Best Intentions and All That.

 

[Garson007]

Sounds like someone who wants to justify eugenics.

... That's quite the conclusion to make. However, good to see that other reactionaries have decided to grace this thread.

 

[porchrat]

Considering that false matches and contaminations have happened in the past I really don't want my DNA in a database managed by our moronic government.

Even worse that they take my DNA even when I haven't been found guilty of anything yet.

 

[Fingolfin]

Police Committee concludes hearings on "World Class" DNA Bill:

"The Committee will also look into the issue of oversight and ethics regarding the Bill and will further consider the degree of independence it afforded to the Forensic Oversight Board. The Committee further indicated that a possible complaints mechanism will be considered during deliberations.
The Committee is of the view that the Bill will be an important tool in criminal investigations. The Committee will start with deliberations on the Bill next week."

http://www.info.gov.za/speech/DynamicAction?pageid=461&sid=37341&tid=110246

"For media enquiries or interviews with the Acting Chairperson, please contact:"
Kanyisa Ndyondya
Parliamentary Communication Services
Tel: 021 403 8041
Cell: 083 624 0585
Email: [email protected]

"[New]-World-[Order]-class bill lauded:"

"So it will go an extra mile, be it rape, be it murder, be it housebreaking. So we can go back into jail and sample all of them to do the comparative search," Shezi said.
"That’s why the portfolio committee is of the view that it is world-class."

http://www.iol.co.za/dailynews/news/world-class-dna-bill-lauded-1.1531119

 

[supersunbird]

God people, they only index 20 or so markers from your DNA which has many many more markers and those 20 are enough to mark your as you.

Anything that helps the crime situation you guys seem to be opposed to, but bet you are first to moan about poor crime and conviction stats.

 

[Fingolfin]

they only index 20 or so markers from your DNA which has many many more markers and those 20 are enough to mark your as you.

This is acknowledged above, but they still have to take a complete sample to extract those markers. Do we trust the collectors?
The core of the problem is the legality of taking DNA from people not yet convicted of a crime. Guilty until proven innocent?

The willingness (nay, desire) of multiple parties to dig deep into the collections for various reasons is also linked above. There will be consequences, good and bad. Will the good over-weigh the bad? Even if the good over-weighs the bad, what of the victims of the bad?

Anything that helps the crime situation you guys seem to be opposed to, but bet you are first to moan about poor crime and conviction stats.

What good are conviction stats, when the next mass-pardon comes around?
Crime will never be a solved problem if we only ever deal with the problem symptomatically.

 

[noxibox]

They're going to be collecting a lot of DNA and eventually they're going to get a false positive.