George Floyd death

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konfab said:
So what does that mean in terms of what the government will actually pay according to the racial bean counting?
The table I posted showed the effects, but if you don't believe me:



https://www.tusker.co.za/blog/unpacking-the-bee-scorecard/

In other words, it is completely arbitrary.
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We were talking about tender points allocation not bee itself. And as per my previous point, with a government site reference, bee counts for only a small amount of points in awarding tenders. You will need to point out which part of that is bs.
 
Craig said:
We were talking about tender points allocation not bee itself. And as per my previous point, with a government site reference, bee counts for only a small amount of points in awarding tenders. You will need to point out which part of that is bs.
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The point where you can arbitrarily increase and decrease the price the government is going to pay for a tender.

Thought experiment:
Imagine if it were Broad Based Christian Economic Empowerment. And that what the government will pay for a tender is based on how many prayer meetings the owners go to, how many churches they sponsor, and how pithy they look when they pray.
The specifics with BBBEEE is around race, which is nasty enough, but the concept itself is absolutely repugnant regardless of who it benefits.
 
konfab said:
So what does that mean in terms of what the government will actually pay according to the racial bean counting?
The table I posted showed the effects, but if you don't believe me:



https://www.tusker.co.za/blog/unpacking-the-bee-scorecard/

In other words, it is completely arbitrary.
Click to expand...

I think you are misunderstanding how the BEE system works on tenders. the 80/20 split (or 90/10) means that 80% of the tender is awarded on price and if your product meets specification for the tender. The 20% is basically the makeup if you are a black owned, an economic contributor or a non black owned company. depending on your level (as per the graph you showed) is not how the tender will be paid.

If your tender quotation is worth 1 million rand and the next in line (black owned) is 2 million rand, you will (or should - without corruption) get the tender. Only if you the Black owned company is very close to your evaluation will the colour of the owner of the company come into play.

I think you are getting confused with that graph you showed on BEE as it has nothing to do with the actual payout of the tender amount but how much the company (who you want to supply to) can score on their economic contribution on their own BEE scorecard with the purchase they made.

That is if they purchase from your company as a 1 million rand contract and if you are not a BEE registered company then they cannot claim any of that money as spend on their scorecard for BEE, however if you are level 1 then the spend will equal to 1.35 million rand on their scorecard.

So potentially a white owned company (who does have a BEE level) can benefit and try and improve their level by trying to procure from higher BEE rated companies.

Also remember that any white owned company who makes less than 10 million rand a year automatically qualifies as a level 4 BEE status.
 
konfab said:
The point where you can arbitrarily increase and decrease the price the government is going to pay for a tender.

Thought experiment:
Imagine if it were Broad Based Christian Economic Empowerment. And that what the government will pay for a tender is based on how many prayer meetings the owners go to, how many churches they sponsor, and how pithy they look when they pray.
The specifics with BBBEEE is around race, which is nasty enough, but the concept itself is absolutely repugnant regardless of who it benefits.
Click to expand...


I have no idea what you are talking about here, and I doubt you even know what your point is. Have you ever actually worked with government tenders? You can't just increase the price as you see fit, if you do that you'll lose out on the 80 part of the points allocation as the lowest price gets 80 points, the next price gets lower points depending on how much higher it is. Only after that does BEE play a part. See @ISP cash cow 's explanation below as he explains it a bit better than me. If you read through all of this you'll see that BEE plays a very small part in tender allocation, this was my actual point that both you and rietrot seems to have trouble understanding.


ISP cash cow said:
I think you are misunderstanding how the BEE system works on tenders. the 80/20 split (or 90/10) means that 80% of the tender is awarded on price and if your product meets specification for the tender. The 20% is basically the makeup if you are a black owned, an economic contributor or a non black owned company. depending on your level (as per the graph you showed) is not how the tender will be paid.

If your tender quotation is worth 1 million rand and the next in line (black owned) is 2 million rand, you will (or should - without corruption) get the tender. Only if you the Black owned company is very close to your evaluation will the colour of the owner of the company come into play.

I think you are getting confused with that graph you showed on BEE as it has nothing to do with the actual payout of the tender amount but how much the company (who you want to supply to) can score on their economic contribution on their own BEE scorecard with the purchase they made.

That is if they purchase from your company as a 1 million rand contract and if you are not a BEE registered company then they cannot claim any of that money as spend on their scorecard for BEE, however if you are level 1 then the spend will equal to 1.35 million rand on their scorecard.

So potentially a white owned company (who does have a BEE level) can benefit and try and improve their level by trying to procure from higher BEE rated companies.

Also remember that any white owned company who makes less than 10 million rand a year automatically qualifies as a level 4 BEE status.
Click to expand...

The part in red should've been easy enough to deduce from the first link I provided to vrotriet, and I suspect he understood it perfectly well as he is not stupid at all, but it doesn't fit the narrative he was trying to play at.
 
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konfab said:
Yup instead of being about police brutality, it is about tearing down statues of people who are not historically pure and burning down Autozones.
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Who cares about statues tear them all down, come we go tear the one down in Sandton.
 
Sollie said:
Perhaps you wish to reconsider your sources. I love looking at links (unlike some here, making things off as blanket yadda yaddah, warrah warrash). Here is the problem with splcenter.org: 20 pages in on hate, with ~8+ articles/page, not a single artcile on black extremists/hate. A statistical impossibility. Perhaps they need to rename their Hatewatch to Biasedwatch. :cautious:
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Rietrot asked a question and I used a source that explains the answer in a detailed fashion (unless you would like to question the content of the article ofcourse)
 
Craig said:
BEE counts for a very small portion of the points needed to award a tender. Price counts most, so provided there's no corruption involved white business's are not as disadvantaged as you would like to believe.
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Or incompetence.
Tender goes out. Dude wins. First problem - he did not realize he has to carry spares ... :sneaky:
Specialized piece of kit goes belly up. Some dude from a govt department demands our people are on site the next morning 8am. Erm, which part of f-off don't you understand? We're an independent business. Do you have a contract? Where is the order? Eventually a dude selling printer cartridges gets the contract to source the components from us. :X3:

But then of course, sometimes you are privy to discussions where ex-MK members sit discussing tenders ... the things you hear, the games. Not enough skills? Just throw more people with no clue at it. Let's not even start talking about the state our our cyber security. Nvm - just submit your info ... but I say too much.
 
Craig said:
BEE counts for a very small portion of the points needed to award a tender. Price counts most, so provided there's no corruption involved white business's are not as disadvantaged as you would like to believe.
Click to expand...

General market tenders? For government tenders you have almost zero chance unless you are 100% black owned and SOE tenders are heading that way but you can still get away with a high BEE score. Then, once you have the tender if your BEE score drops there are either heavy penalties or the contract simply gets cancelled, with some of your BEE rating completely out of your hands.
 
ISP cash cow said:
So potentially a white owned company (who does have a BEE level) can benefit and try and improve their level by trying to procure from higher BEE rated companies.

Also remember that any white owned company who makes less than 10 million rand a year automatically qualifies as a level 4 BEE status.
Click to expand...
Consider the company supplying services not otherwise available in the country, goods not available in the country. Does buying from an Indian supplier in the USA count? Obviously not. What now?

When we come to that R10m, that is not profit, it's turnover. So on R10m at a 15% margin? Plus other costs, taxes ...
Suddenly R10m becomes a pittance.

So, try increasing the BEE rating by starting to feed kids etc. But let's not go there, "The Director" had one of my reality checks removed after he spewed his bs and I pointed out facts.
 
truman19 said:
Rietrot asked a question and I used a source that explains the answer in a detailed fashion (unless you would like to question the content of the article ofcourse)
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I was merely out the lack of logic by labelling something/somebody by using something just as biased as you claim the something/somebody is.
 
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